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Mr. FULTON. My question-Is this a good U.S. policy?

Mr. FASCELL. I have never heard of that. That is the point. We had better find out whether it is actually being done.

Mr. MORSE. This is in Mr. Nutter's area of responsibility. We can find out right now. Let's hear from him.

Mr. FASCELL. Is it or isn't it, Mr. Secretary?

Mr. NUTTER. This occurs in the Brazilian Navy. The admiral in charge of the naval mission is carried on the Brazilian rolls as a rear admiral as a matter of protocol, but this is strictly honorary. He has no function in the forces. He serves in an advisory capacity as a member of our mission. He has no command responsibilities. Ten other naval officers are carried similarly at their U.S. ranks. I am not sure in what sense they would view them as members of the Brazilian Navy.

REIMBURSEMENT OF MILGROUP PAY AND ALLOWANCES

Mr. FULTON. The Brazilian Government pays him through some financial arrangement with the U.S. Government actually to take care of the cost of his pay by the U.S. military.

Mr. NUTTER. I do not believe so.

Mr. FASCELL. Not only is this bad policy; I want to assure you it happens to be against the law.

Mr. FULTON. I can state the amount. In Colombia, it is $85,000 that they put into U.S. military as pay, but not pay individually to each

man.

Mr. FASCELL. That is an interesting thing, Mr. Nutter.

Mr. NUTTER. There is no direct pay of any sort to members of our Armed Forces.

Mr. FASCELL. Mr. Lang.

(A biographical sketch of Mr. William Lang follows:)

WILLIAM E. LANG, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS (AFRICA AND WESTERN HEMISPHERE)

William E. Lang was born in Nyack, N.Y. in 1925. After serving three years in the Navy during World War II, he completed his formal education at Georgetown University and the Harvard Law School. He joined the Department of Defense in 1951, initially serving as an assistant to the General Counsel of the Navy. In 1952 he joined the staff of the Secretary of Defense, where he has remained since that time, in varying capacities, legal and policy, both in Washington and abroad.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM LANG, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS

Mr. LANG. If I might comment, I am William Lang, Deputy Assistant Secretary, ISA.

The military missions in Latin America began in the early 1920's. Under these early arrangements, U.S. military personnel were made available to the armed forces of the host state and they were paid by the host state. Those arrangements have been changed. You will recall that the Mansfield amendment in the mid-1950's directed that our personnel abroad no longer receive any direct pay by a foreign government. As a result any payment due to the individual now goes to the U.S. Treasury. Payment does not go to the individual.

Mr. FULTON. Yes, I agree to that, because they have been indirectly paid.

Mr. LANG. The missions today do not have any command function or command responsibility in the host state forces. They serve in an advisory capacity, as do our MAAG personnel elsewhere in the world. Mr. FULTON. But in these two countries, Brazil and Colombia, these U.S. military personnel are considered as part of the armed forces of that country. This is different from other places around the world. That is what I am pointing out.

The question is, is that a good policy? I would rather have it put in the record.

Mr. MORSE. I think it is too important to leave up in the air.

Mr. FASCELL. I think we should give Mr. Lang an opportunity to answer in full. Why don't you come up and join us at the table. Mr. MORSE. In fairness to Mr. Fulton

Mr. FULTON. I have made my comments as a statement of fact. They can put a statement in the record. I do not want to take too much time at this stage.

Mr. FASCELL. We will be glad to put their statement in the record. But let me ask, if I may, does the U.S. Government now receive reimbursement in some cases from the host government for military advisers?

Mr. LANG. That is correct, sir.

Mr. FASCELL. In every country in Latin America?

Mr. NUTTER. It is not true in every country.

Mr. FASCELL. Some countries?

Mr. NUTTER. Some.

Mr. FASCELL. Which countries?

Mr. NUTTER. I would have to supply that for the record.

Mr. FULTON. In Colombia, it is at present $85,000.

Mr. FASCELL. Whatever it is, please supply it for the record. (The information requested follows:)

REIMBURSEMENT TO THE UNITED STATES FOR PAY AND ALLOWANCES OF U.S.

MILITARY ADVISERS

Under terms of the original Mission Agreements, 17 countries paid direct compensation to U.S. military personnel serving with the Missions. The "Mansfield Amendment" of 1958 (72 Stat. 275, PL 85-477) barred members of U.S. Military Missions from accepting compensation from foreign governments and, since the effective date of that legislation, foreign payments have not been received by members of the U.S. military Missions in Latin America. Arrangements with the following countries call for reimbursement to the United States, in whole or in part, for the pay and allowances of U.S. military advisers serving with the Missions: Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

Mr. FASCELL. With respect to the other aspect of this doublebarreled question, I understand that no U.S. military person holds any official position in any other government, is that correct?

Mr. LANG. That is correct. The head of the naval mission in Brazil is carried on the Brazilian Navy register as a rear admiral, but he does not have any command function within the Brazilian Navy.

Mr. FULTON. But he is on the list of their military personnel in the country of Brazil.

Mr. LANG. That is right.

Mr. FASCELL. Is that the only individual?

Mr. LANG. There are a total of 11 naval officers carried at their U.S. ranks.

Mr. MORSE. Why is that permitted? I do not see any advantage and nothing but potential disaster in that sort of arrangement. I see absolutely no advantage accruing to the United States by having him so carried.

Mr. LANG. This has been a matter of tradition since the inception of the naval mission back in the early 1920's.

Mr. FULTON. I am questioning the tradition as a good U.S. policy at this time.

Mr. MORSE. I would hope somebody would take a hard look at that, because it might have been relevant in the 1920's, but it certainly does not have relevance in the 1970's.

Mr. NUTTER. I quite agree. I was not aware of this particular linkage, and I would not consider it desirable.

(DOD Comment: Subsequent to this hearing, all Military Groups were required to report on the question of whether U.S. military personnel are carried on host country military rolls. All reported negative except Brazil, where 11 naval personnel are so carried for protocol purposes.)

Mr. FASCELL. I want to get back a little bit to the Soviet

Mr. ROYBAL. Before you do that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask. with regard to the money that the host country pays for advisers, does that go directly to the Treasury, or does it go to the Treasury and then to the adviser himself?

Mr. LANG. The money that formerly went to the individual adviser now goes to the Treasury. Our personnel continue to receive their pay and allowances out of normal U.S. appropriations. There is no direct connection between the payment by the host country and the pay and allowances received by the individual.

Mr. FASCELL. We have grant training programs and paid training

programs.

SOVIET LONG-RANGE AIRCRAFT

This aircraft that the Russians have flown in for the first time in the Caribbean is the TU-95 BEAR?

Admiral HOLMES. TU-95 BEAR.

Mr. FASCELL. You told us, but I cannot recall right now, what kind of airplane that is.

Admiral HOLMES. It is a large, four-engine turbo-prop plane. It is Navy-subordinated. They use it for surveillance in the Atlantic down as far south as the Azores and approaches to Gibraltar. There are three groups of these that flew into Havana. The first time was April 18, the second time April 25, and the third time May 13.

Mr. FASCELL. Do the Russians have any long-range bombers actually stationed in Cuba.

Admiral HOLMES. NO.

Mr. FASCELL. The allegation has been made that the Russians have had some large, long-range bombers capable of carrying nuclear bombs actually stationed on Cuba. The only knowledge that we have is of the TU-95 on three different flights, is that correct?

Admiral HOLMES. That is correct.

SUBMARINE BASES IN CUBA

Mr. FASCELL. Have there been some submarine operations by the Soviets out of Cuban bases? I am asking.

Admiral HOLMES. They have visited there.

Mr. FASCELL. There is no logistic support in Cuba for Russian nuclear submarines?

Admiral HOLMES. NO.

Mr. FASCELL. But that would be a way of operating, would it not? If the Soviets wanted to, they could bring their rotating crews into Cuba and bring their subs in and change crews and resupply. But they are not doing that as far as we know?

Admiral HOLMES. As far as we know, they are not.

Mr. FASCELL. Are there any other questions?

Admiral Holmes and Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. We appreciate your contribution.

Admiral HOLMES. Could I add one thing?

Mr. FASCELL. Certainly.

SOVIET RELIEF FLIGHTS TO PERU

Admiral HOLMES. I think it is pertinent to this committee and it is happening just today. You are aware of these flights that are going to Peru from Russia.

Mr. FASCELL. Yes, the 65 relief flights.

Admiral HOLMES. They are staging through Havana, incidentally, among other places. I think on the face of it, all these flights are innocent enough. They are for the purpose stated.

Mr. FASCELL. We still have to look at them and worry about them. Admiral HOLMES. It illustrates the potential that might be there. It is quite an operation, incidentally. As of this morning, the first one is at Bogotá, Colombia, and will be going on down to Peru. Two left Keflavik and last night were in Halifax, and they were supposed to have taken off this morning and be in Havana today.

Mr. FASCELL. What kind of aircraft is that?

Admiral HOLMES. This is called a CUB, and its designation is AN-12. They plan to fly the AN-22. The AN-12 is a turboprop plane rather comparable to our C-130 Hercules, fixed wing. The AN-22 is bigger, still comparable to our C-133.

The significance of this, to me, is the capability they are demonstrating and the familiarity they are getting with the operations. Mr. FASCELL. What is the range of that airplane? I notice you say they are staging at various places. Do they have to do that?

Admiral HOLMES. I cannot tell you the total range. I would expect there may be some expert here. I suspect the AN-22 has a range on the order of 6,000 miles, at least empty, while the AN-12 range is closer to 3,500 miles, empty.

Anyway, they are staging them. It would be a long haul out of the Northern Fleet to go all the way to Halifax loaded, so they are staging at an international airfield in Iceland, Halifax and Gander, and then down to Havana, and then down to Colombia.

Mr. FASCELL. Could they fly directly from the staging area to Lima?

Admiral HOLMES. I think they could reach from Havana to Lima.
Mr. FASCELL. You mean from the staging area to Havana direct?
Admiral HOLMES I do not think so.

Mr. FASCELL. But they can go direct from Havana to Lima?
Admiral HOLMES. I think they could.

Mr. FASCELL. But they are stopping over in Colombia on the way in?

Admiral HOLMES. They are stopping in Bogotá, Colombia.

Mr. FASCELL. In other words, the Cuban stop is an essential stop. It is not strictly a ploy.

Admiral HOLMES. No. I think it is necessary.

Mr. FASCELL. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

(Whereupon, at 12:15 o'clock p.m., the subcommittee adiourned subject to call.)

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