House ought to seek to extend redress to the people, either by granting a committee, or in any other way, this surely was one. He did not think this a party question; and if a committee was granted, he should not enter it with party feelings. He recommended it, because he believed it would be the best way of conciliating the disaffected, and restoring tranquillity to that part of the country which was disturbed. another, from being totally inapplicable. He was ready to admit that Scotland was as much bound to provide for its poor as England; but if there was any difficulty in raising a sum there to relieve them, (and he did not say that there was any such difficulty), government might be justly called upon to assist in obviating it. The right hon. gentleman had denied, with considerable vehemence, that any of our existing evils arose from the policy of ministers. Now he (Mr. T.) thought that Mr. Marryat said:-Mr. Speaker; I some of them had. A principle of politi- regret that language should have been cal economy had been violated by an issue used in this debate, the tendency of of paper, that was not convertible into which is rather to aggravate than money and this, as they all knew, had allay the discontents that prevail among not been productive of any advantage to the labouring classes of the community. the state. The people of part of Scotland I also regret as it is admitted on all were now allowed to be in jeopardy of hands that these discontents originated starvation. Was he, when they were in chiefly in distress, that his majesty's misuch circumstances, to understand that nisters have it not in contemplation to no relief would be granted to them, unless bring forward any measures by which the gentlemen of landed property came that distress may be alleviated. I admit forward in their behalf? No; that was not that the safety of the state is the first exactly the case: all the gentlemen on object that demanded their attention; the other side said that something ought but that being provided for by the vato be done, but they could not tell what. rious bills now in progress through the So said the poor and famished manufac- House, I think measures of relief, as turers, but with a meaning rather dif- far as relief is practicable, ought to go ferent. This something, which was to be hand in hand with measures of coercion. done when the people required relief, ap- It has been stated in many loyal adpeared very like nothing; but when some- dresses to the throne, echoed back again thing was to be done to coerce the people, to us in the speech from the throne, that something came before them in the re-echoed in our address, and repeated shape of six or seven bills. Did gentle- in various speeches in this House, that men think that it was only by dint of law this distress is only of a temporary naand a military force, that they could re- ture. Often as I have heard this asstore strength, and health, and soundness, serted, I have never once heard it atto their convulsed country? He hoped tempted to be proved; and I believe for not. It was too monstrous a proposition this plain reason, that to prove it is to be seriously entertained for a moment. impossible, because this distress is inThey were now receiving complaints from herent in, and inseparable from, the different parts of the kingdom, not of situation in which this country is now imaginary miseries or fictitious evils; they placed. We are in an artificial and exwere receiving petitions, not for absurd traordinary state of things, different from theories of representation, or wild changes that of any other nation on earth. We in the constitution; but complaints of have to provide for the interest of an actual misery, and that, too, of the very immense national debt, in addition to worst nature-of starvation. It was a the expenses of our regular peace estadreadful state of society to live under, and blishment, so that the ordinary sources would become still more so, if relief was of revenue, derived from taxes on innot granted. It was said that this re- ternal consumption, which served to lief ought to come from the landed pro- defray the expenses of other governprietors; but was it not too much to ments, will not suffice for our wants; ask, that the calamities arising out of but we depend also upon the revenue the decay of the manufacturing interest, derived from manufacturing, to a great should be entirely relieved at the expense extent, for the consumption of foreign of the agricultural, which was not itself powers. This resource is of immense in the most flourishing condition. If importance, as may be seen by the ever there was a case in which the single instance of the cotton manufac tory. The raw cotton annually consumed in this country costs about six millions, which in its manufactured state is sold for at least six times its original value, or thirty-six millions, leaving a profit to this country of thirty millions. At the close of the war, about one-third of the profits or income of every individual, found their way into the exchequer, as appears by the returns under the Income Tax act. That tax was paid on nearly 150 millions, for it produced 14,800,000l.; adding one third or 75 millions, for short returns and exemptions, the total income of the inhabitants of this country will be something more than 220 millions, and the amount of the public revenue at the same period exceeded 70 millions, or nearly one third. Since the repeal of the income tax, the proportion is reduced to about one fourth; so that the cotton manufacture now produces an annual revenue of 7 millions. Extend this calculation to our other great staple manufactures, wool, leather, glass and earthenware, hardware, and various others, a large proportion of which is exported, together with the produce of our mines, lead, iron, copper, tin, and coals, and it will be seen how much our revenue depends upon the export trade of the coun try. During the war, we commanded a monopoly of the commerce of almost all the world, and increased our manufactures to such an extent, that they actually occupy a much greater part of our population than are employed in agriculture. Every thing then wore the appearance of prosperity, for the workmen obtained high wages, for which the master manufacturers indemnified themselves, by the high prices they obtained for their goods in foreign parts. But when peace returned, and we came into competition with the manufacturers of every nation on the continent, where labour was much cheaper than in Great Britain, a great and sudden revulsion took place. Our master-manufacturers found themselves undersold, and were consequently obliged to reduce the price of their goods. To relieve themselves from this loss, and enable themselves to afford their goods as cheap as their rivals in foreign markets, they reduced the wages of their workmen, and at length even this resource has become ineffectual; for although the workmen who continue to have employment, are only paid a pittance insufficient for their support, the export of our manufactures is so much diminished, that great numbers of them are without any employ whatever.-I know there are many individuals who think that British skill, capital and enterprise, will carry all before them; but I can assure those gentlemen that they under-rate the exertions of our rivals, as I can show them by referring to the trade of the Havana, which being open to all the world, is as fair a criterion as can possibly be furnished. From the returns of the vessels that arrived at that port for the six months ending in July last, it appears that out of 99 which came from Europe, only fifteen sailed from Great Britain; eighteen were from France, and twenty-one from Holland and the Hans towns. This enumeration shows that six parts out of seven of the wants of the inhabitants of the island of Cuba, can be supplied cheaper from other parts of Europe than from Great Britain; and confirms the positions I am endeavouring to maintain, that manufactures can be afforded cheapest where labour can be procured at the lowest rate, and that labour will be lowest where the taxes are the lowest, because the rate of taxation ne. cessarily enhances the price of every commodity that men eat, drink, wear, or consume. Peace brought the same distress upon agricultural as upon the manufacturing classes, by exposing the British farmer to a competition with the foreign grower of corn, but the land-holders relieved themselves by passing the corn laws, which raised the price of bread upon the lower classes, at the very moment when their means of paying for it were diminished by the reduction of their wages. I impute no blame to the landed interest, for their distress required relief; but I contended at the time, that they helped themselves with rather too liberal a hand; and the present state of things proves that the public burthens now press too heavily on the labouring classes of the community. The longer we attempt to go on upon our present system, the more, I fear, will our financial and political difficulties increase. Six years ago, the right hon. gentleman the chancellor of the exchequer, published a pamphlet entitled "Outlines of a New Plan of Finance," in which he predicted that according to his new plan, the whole of the national debt would be liquidated in the year 1837; and told the public" that he had found out a new discovered treasure of 100 millions, such as no country ever before possessed, raised may be obliged to submit to insults from foreign powers which we dare not resent, on the contrary, this country would stand in a prouder situation than ever, if after incurring such a vast expenditure to deliver Europe from the most gigantic despotism that ever attempted to crush the liberties of mankind, she made such an unexampled sacrifice to relieve the suffering classes of her own population, on whom the public burthens pressed with too disproportionate a weight. I shall not go into any particular details on this subject. It is the province of his majesty's ministers to propose specific plans of relief, for the distresses which have produced such alarming symptoms of discontent; and I trust they will shortly bring forward some general and well digested plan of this description, such as will meet the full approbation, as I am persuaded it will receive the most serious consideration of this House. In the mean time, I cannot concur in any local or partial measures, such as that we are called upon to adopt by the present motion. The motion was then agreed to. Lord without the impoverishment of any individual, or any embarrassment of the general circulation." Does any man, in his sober senses now believe, that the whole of the national debt will be paid off by the year 1837, or that the right hon. gentleman has these 100 millions in his pocket? Sir the fallacy of the right hon. gentleman's plan consisted in his taking it for granted, that taxation might be increased to an indefinite amount; his calculations were founded on an addition of 21 millions to all the then existing taxes; and one of the first acts of John Bull, after the peace, was, to kick off seventeen millions from the load of taxes he already bore. Thus vanished at once all the right hon. gentleman's visions of liquidating the national debt, and his newly discovered treasure. This retrospect is important, as it may serve to bring the right hon. gentleman to true principles of finance; and to show him that if he means his next plan to succeed, he must found it on the basis of reducing, not augmenting, the present weight of taxation. This appears to me (to use a proscribed term), to be the only radical cure for the evils under which the country now labours; and in my opinion would be best accomplished, by a general contribution of property of every description, for the purpose of paying off a considerable portion of the national debt, and thus getting rid of those taxes which render it impossible for our labouring classes to afford their labour as cheap as their continental competitors. I know of no other means of reviving the foreign demand for our manufactures, and thus securing constant employment to the distressed part of our population. The measure, though severe is certainly prac-authorized the searching of a man's house ticable. I happened to be in Holland in the winter of 1802, and the inhabitants of that country had then paid ten per cent upon their capital, besides very considerable per centage on their income. Some gentlemen have recommended a renewal of the property tax, for the purpose of taking off those taxes which press most heavily upon the poor, and this would certainly give them considerable relief, but it should be considered, that the property tax must be perpetual, the other measure temporary that the relief given by the former would be only partial, that by the latter effectual; that by imposing a property tax in time of peace we exhaust a resource which ought to be reserved for time of war, and " SEIZURE OF ARMS BILL.] Castlereagh moved the order of the day for the third reading of this bill. Mr. Calcraft stated, that he had been extremely desirous, if it had been possible, to give his support to this bill. The object of himself and the friends with whom he acted, in the opposition which they had given to the present measures was the security of the public peace; but even though such was their object, neither he nor they could support a bill which by night for arms. If the noble lord on the other side would call to his recollection what had passed in another country, he would find that arms had been seized more easily by day than by night; and without any of those violations of decency and decorum which must naturally take place when a man's doors were broken open, and his whole family suddenly exposed to the gaze and inspection of official intruders. For these reasons he should vote against the measure. Sir Joseph Yorke wished to explain the vote which he intended to give this evening, as some gentlemen might not know how to reconcile it with his vote of a former evening. He could have wished the words "by night" to have been struck out of the bill; but, as it had seemed good to a large majority to retain them, he should vote for the bill, rather than allow so necessary a measure, as it was to be lost altogether. Mr. Dickinson said, that no man was more anxious than he was to justify the right of the people of England to have arms; but, in the present state of the public mind, he thought it expedient to place this right under some restriction. Lord James Stuart could have wished the government to have come forward with some more conciliatory measure. He would have agreed to the bill now before the House if the clause, allowing the search by night, had undergone the amendment which an hon. friend of his had proposed. The bill in its present form contained something so hostile to the spirit of the constitution, that he could not possibly support it. He was not sufficiently acquainted with the forms of the House to know how to proceed, in order to throw it out; but he trusted, that some gentleman of greater parliamentary experience than he possessed, would take the proper course to effect that object. Mr. Tierney said, that he should move to leave out the words " by night," if for no other reason at least for this-to give an hon. baronet on the other side (sir J. Yorke) the opportunity of voting twice in 29 years against the government [A laugh]. The Speaker then put the question, that this bill be now read a third time, which was agreed to without a division. on the motion that the bill do now pass, Mr. Tierney moved to leave out the words " by night," on which the House divided-For the motion, 46; Against it, 158: Majority, 112. The bill was then passed. HOUSE OF LORDS. Friday, December 17. SEDITIOUS MEETINGS PREVENTION BILL.] Lord Sidmouth rose to move that the bill for more effectually preventing seditious meetings and assemblies be referred to the consideration of a committee. After all that had passed in the course of the session, he was unwilling to suppose that there could be any opposition to the present measure. He could indeed with confidence say, that notwithstanding all the measures which had already been adopted, their lordships would very imperfectly perform their duty, unless they added to them the present, which was calculated to avert one of the greatest dangers to which this country was exposed. Considering, however, the discussions which the measures proposed by his majesty's government had already undergone, and considering the manner in which the public attention had been called to them, he should feel himself warranted in taking up but a small portion of their lordships time in explaining the details of this bill. The principle of the measure was founded upon the preservation of one of the most. important rights of the people-a right which he hoped would ever be maintained and to secure its exercise in a manner consistent with the free constitution of this country. He could not better describe the evil which it was the object of the bill to prevent, than by referring to the words of its preamble, which stated, that "in divers parts of this kingdom assemblies of large numbers of persons collected from various parishes and districts, under the pretext of deliberating upon public grievances, and of agreeing on petitions, complaints, remonstrances, declarations, resolutions, or addresses, upon the subject thereof, have of late been held, in disturbance of the public peace, to the great terror and danger of his majesty's loyal and peaceable subjects and in a manner manifestly, tending to produce confusion and calamities in the nation." It was matter of (4 K) of the magistrate, under certain limitations, to alter the day and place of the meeting. It prohibited the holding of meetings by adjournment. But what was most important was, that this bill, in reserving to the subject all his rights, the better secured them. It established by law, what had hitherto been only matter of practice. It sanctioned the free assembling of the people to petition the throne or either House of Parliament, and to discuss any public grievance of which they might have to complain, it guarded, . however, against simultaneous meetings, and other abuses of that important right. In all these guards the existing law was deficient, and the deficiencies were supplied by the present bill. He therefore could not but persuade himself that while their lordships would admit the existing law to be inadequate, to meet the present danger, and to require amendment, they would think the provisions in the bill contained satisfactory remedies for the evil which was to be corrected. There were two points with regard to which objections had been urged against the present measure. Upon these he should not say much. The first regarded its locality; whether the bill should be general or li perfect notoriety, not only that meetings of such a description had been held, but that for the last few months scarcely a week, or even a day had passed without some of these meetings being assembled. Supposing therefore that their lordships should approve of the principle of the bill, which proceeded on the admission of the danger described in the preamble, their next consideration would be, whether the existing law were sufficient to prevent it. He had a right to take it for granted that their lordships would admit the principle. Assuming, therefore, the danger, they would have to inquire what regulations were necessary, and whether the provisions of this bill were capable of answering the end proposed. Those who had inquired into the state of the existing laws on this subject were satisfied that there were many dangerous features in the meetings referred to, for which no remedy could at present be found. The existing law did not prescribe any mode of giving notice or superintendence by magistrates. It in no way regulated the manner of attending meetings; it did not prohibit going to meetings in military array, or carrying to them weapons; it did not prevent simultaneous meetings, nor the continuance of meeetings by adjourn-mited. On this subject he should only rement; it did not prevent assembling with mind their lordships of the bill brought flags and banners: if seditious or treason- into parliament for regulating meetable language were spoken, it did not, ings in 1796. The introduction of that besides empowering a magistrate to order bill followed the meetings at Copenhagenthe person offending into custody, also house, which were supposed to have a enable him, in the case of resistance, to connexion with the atrocious attack made declare the meeting illegal; it did not on his majesty at the opening of that sesprovide against a great abuse, the evil ef- sion. But if a general measure were fects of which had been extensively expe- thought necessary to meet the evil in rienced, namely, that when the inhabi- 1796, how much more requisite must it tants of a particular town or district, were now be to bring in such a bill as the summoned to a meeting, so many stran- present, when their lordships recollectgers attended, that the majority of the ed the state of the country, and all that meeting did not consist of such inhabi-had within these few months occurred; tants. Neither did it provide against the when they knew that meetings, against most pernicious practice of itinerant ora- which it was then thought necessary to tors attending public meetings, and col-guard, now took place, week after week, lecting vast multitudes to hear their ha- and day after day, in different parts rangues. Now their lordships would of the country. Whether the bill ought find, that all these great evils for which to be permanent, or of shorter duration the existing law had no remedy, were than that to which it was now limited, provided against by this bill. It required was the other point. As it at present that six days notice of the intention stood, it was limited to five years. He of holding any meeting should be given should think that he acted disingenuousto a magistrate, and that that notice ly with their lordships, if he did not should be signed by at least seven house- state that he thought the measure ought holders. It forbade all military array to continue beyond that period; and he bearing of arms, and the display of must express his hope, that the time banners and flags. It put in the power would never arrive when the legislature, |