But would any body who had heard the opening speech, or any part of that speech, lay his hand on his heart and say, that the motion was brought forward with that abstinence from political hostility, which gave it a chance of a friendly reception, or if carried, of a useful application to the questions which it embraced? It was rather a speech in which all the topics of inflammation had been connected together. It introduced every thing that was calculated to rekindle those animosities which might have subsided. They were, indeed, introduced collaterally, but unfairly-unfairly with respect to the topics themselves, and no less unfairly with reference to the inquiry that was to take place. They were topics, too, he must observe, on which the sense of the House was clearly taken, and on which its decision was intelligibly given. He did not mean to censure the hon. gentleman for the course he had adopted; he had undoubtedly a right to introduce public topics in the way which appeared to him to be most expedient; and he did not doubt that the hon. gentleman thought it was his duty to bring forward the motion as he had done that night. The hon. gentleman, of course, conceived it to be a part of his duty to throw as much obloquy as possible on his majesty's government, an object in which he was well seconded by the right hon. gentleman who had just spoken. If the speech delivered by the right hon. gentleman was meant to follow up the idea of the hon. mover, it showed that he had taken a correct view of the object of the motion. If the right hon. gentleman did not mean to follow the course of the hon. mover, if he meant to adopt a different mode of proceeding, it then threw on the right hon. gentleman the onus of showing that he had not defeated a motion, which, if brought forward with common temperance, would have ensured the concurrence of the House. When he came down to the House, he expected that the motion would be brought forward in the spirit to which he had alluded; and if so brought forward, it certainly would have received his concurrence. He did not mean to say, that in making up his mind on the subject, he had not only placed considerable restraint on his feelings, but also on his better judgment. Because, undoubtedly, in entering into a field of inquiry so wide as this must be, if confined to its express objects, without a precise knowledge of what that inquiry would be specifically directed to, they ran the risk of exciting expectations that might be grievously disappointed. If they entered into it with an idea of adopting any remedy that might casually be turned up, blame would attach to them for not having paused until they saw their way clearly before them. The hon. mover told them, in words short and emphatic, which showed the view that he took of the subject, that he would have no committee on cotton-twist, but one in which political topics should be investigated. He had used the words cotton-twist, because, he wished to degrade the idea of a commercial inquiry: and his political view embraced the whole state of the county of Lancaster, involved all the Tory principles of the resident magistrates and gentlemen of that county, and all the conflicts of Orange and other societies within its limits. The hon. mover had done him the honour to appeal to him, on account of his connexion with Liverpool, as to certain circumstances which had taken place there. With respect to Orange lodges, and the system connected with them, the hon. mover might know that all that ever passed between him and such of his constituents as belonged to those societies was, that he had asked them for their favour. He had before and after his last visit to that town (and nothing had since occurred to alter his opinions), declared sentiments directly opposite to the great majority of those persons. He was not the person who, intending to go into an inquiry respecting the manufacturing classes, could consider it any necessary part of such inquiry to take up the feuds and quarrels of Lancaster, and set the people one against the other. That, however, was the spirit with which the hon. mover would go to the inquiry, so far as related to the general state of the county of Lancaster. The hon. mover would also introduce the events of the 16th of August. The interminable subject of the Oldham inquest; in short, all those questions, which any man who wished to enter into the main subject itself-who was desirous to strip it of all accidental circumstances, would have carefully avoided. But, as if the hon. mover's speech was not sufficient, at the end of the debate came forward his venerable mentor, who, instead of bring. ing him back to sobriety and temperance, instead of cooling his mind, and tranquillizing his passions, had encouraged his warmth. He came indeed like Mentor, | tility. One consequence was, that they but it was like Mentor when he stole be- had lost their object. Even on this subhind Telemachus, and pushed him into ject-the subject of sacred misery, which the sea. So did the Mentor of to-night should be hedged round from every feelget behind the hon. mover, and force him ing of political irritation-even with into the ocean of party politics. The respect to that question it seemed the hon. mover wished to inquire into the country was not to look for fair inquiry state of Lancashire, its ancient feuds and and cordial co-operation. He thought present animosities, but that would not the gentlemen opposite had lost themsatisfy the right hon. gentleman. He selves a second time. One opportunity wanted a grand coup d'œil. He wanted occurred at the opening of the session to investigate the conduct of ministers for when they might have rendered an essen25 years past, in a committee ostensibly tial service to the country. They might formed to inquire into the commercial have done that, without abating any part distresses of the country. This calm, of the hostility which they felt towards temperate, moderate inquiry into the ministers, which might be brought fordistresses of the time, was, it ap-ward at other times and on other occapeared, to be indissolubly united with the committee on the state of the nation, (for such it would be)-the good old parliamentary course for turning out one set of ministers, and placing another in their stead. Good would it have been for ministers, good would it have been for the right hon. gentleman and those around him, good for the country at large, if to-day had been a conferential day, and, if, with grounded arms, ceasing from hostility, both sides had agreed to consult the benefit of all; ministers did come down to the House in that disposition, and he was as much vexed as he was disappointed and surprised at the change which appeared to have taken place in the sentiments of the hon. mover since Friday last. The speeches delivered by an hon. gentleman opposite and his right hon. friend, while they did them infinite credit, and showed that their highly gifted minds were improved by practical knowledge-these two speeches were the specimens to which he would, refer, as what he thought ought to have been the tone and temper of that debate. If the hon. mover had opened the business in that temperate mode, he would not have opposed the motion-nay, he would venture farther: even after the provoking speech of the hon. mover, if his right hon. friend had adopted the course of those two gentlemen, and thrown the irritating topics of the hon. gentleman a little more into the shade, instead of addressing the House as he had done, they might then have come to terms. But for some reasons inscrutable to him, the right hon. gentleman had thought it better to change that night, which was to have been a neutral night, to one of the most decided political hos sions. They had another opportunity tonight-an opportunity of their own choosing. They selected a subject, in bringing forward which they ought to have forgotten their political opinions, and carried the House of Commons into a calm inquiry into circumstances with which the interests of the country were so nearly concerned. But he was sure there was no man, the most unconnected with, and most insensible to, party feeling, who would say that it was possible for any government, valuing its character one straw, to agree to the motion of the hon. gentleman, introduced with such a speech as he had been pleased to deliver. But suppose they had gone into the committee, out of the two speeches to which he had alluded, there arose matter sufficient for an inquiry, the longest and most sedulous that could be imagined. First, the subject of the minimum of wages. He did not mean to say that the hon. gentleman had given any opinion on it; but he had thrown it out as a question which ought to be set at rest. Next came the whole question of our currency, which had occupied that House for two or three sessions in one way or other, and had particularly taken up much of the time of the last session, perhaps the most laborious that ever sat. There was also the question of the poor laws, which was already under consideration; but admitting the industry of those who were employed in that investigation, the result, he must say, had been extremely unsatisfactory. The next was, the question of machinery, which was easily disposed of in principle, but which, if the committee sat, would be brought forward for such an extensive investigation, as would be satisfactory to those persons who were most interested in it. Next was the question of Scotland, and the absence of poor laws in that country. Then, added to these, there was the whole chapter of taxation, every part of which was to be sifted, in order to remove, if possible, what was stated to be a novelty-the tax on raw materials. Even if party politics had been completely banished, here was a field sufficiently wide to occupy the ablest and wisest heads for a long period. He thought the result of this discussion must be, to show the House that, whoever they might be who brought such extensive subjects before them, they were bound to state some outline, to give some description of the course which they wished the legislature to adopt. Nevertheless, if the committee had been proposed in the tone to which he had alluded, he would have agreed to it. No one could suppose that he and his hon. friends could look at these questions lightly. He was prepared to go into that committee with all its difficulties, if party and political feelings had been left out of the question. He felt, on the one hand, that it was not likely to have a satisfactory result; but on the other, though they might not be able to see their way clearly, they were anxious to show that sympathy for the distresses of the country which could only be expressed by such an inquiry. He did think that ministers had a right to complain that the honourable mover had made it impossible for them to accede to his motion. But if a committee were appointed to inquire into the distress of the manufacturing counties, he believed that would be the last and the least point of consideration with the hon. mover, who had introduced all the angry topics, and adverted to all the inflamed passions of the county of Lancaster-who was, besides, to have the assistance of his right hon. friend, who had attempted to trace all the miseries of the country to the conduct of government for the last twenty-five years. Was it likely, with these facts before them-when, in stating their object, the gentlemen opposite could not divest themselves of an ingenuous confession of what they really aimed at if they got into the committee when one-tenth of their observations were bestowed on topics which at the very commencement showed the feeling they had in their hearts-was it, he would ask, likely that ministers could acquiesce in their demands? He did most earnestly wish that the committee had been moved for, as he understood it would have been ; but, being disappointed in his expectation, he was bound to oppose it. He did not mean to do more than to account for the vote which he should give, and to express his sorrow that he was obliged to give it. He had no doubt that the hon. mover had introduced political subjects from a sense of duty; although he did not see any mention of politics in the motion. He regretted that the hon. gentleman had taken such a view of the question as had stripped it of its greatest advantages. He had, however, chosen that particular course, and if the proposition were negatived, he had himself to thank for it. Had this motion excited hopes of any beneficial result in the minds of the people, on the hon. mover and on his friends must rest the disappointment occasioned by its ill success. Lord Folkestone said, that the right hon, gentleman who had just sat down had observed, that it would have been better for the House and the country, if the motion had not been introduced by his hon. friend in the manner in which he had brought it forward. He, however, anticipated much benefit to the country from this discussion; and he approved entirely of the spirit and manner in which his hon. friend had treated the question. He had thrown a considerable light on the subject, and explained many circumstances that were not known before. The right hon. gentleman had objected, that his hon. friend had taken that opportunity to introduce political matters. Now, in his (lord Folkestone's) view of the question, it was quite impossible to consider the state of the manufacturing districts without adverting to political topics. They had learned in the course of the debate, that the greatest distress existed in the country. That fact, which had been denied over and over again, was now fully admitted, and had indeed rivetted the attention of the House during the whole discussion. The hon. member for Bramber had stated, that the distress of the country had arisen solely from the war; for that it was impossible to suppose, according to their ideas of Divine Providence, that a thing soatrocious as war was, should not be followed by a variety of evils. He begged to remind the hon. gentleman that the late war was, from the beginning to the end, supported by the hon. member himself [Mr. Wilberforce here mo 98,000 inhabitants, as it had been when it possessed no more than a few hundredsnamely, a boroughreeve, and two constables, elected at a court leet by the tenants of the lord of the manor. Ought not the government then, who knew the unquiet state in which that town had so long been placed, and who also knew that part of its inquietude arose from the constitution of its present municipality, to have formed another, better adapted to its existing circumstances? Another right hon. gentleman (the member for Oxford) had begun his speech of that evening by complaining that a misrepresentation had gone abroad of what he had said on a former evening. If it was a misrepresentation, it must have arisen from misapprehension, for he (lord Folkestone) had certainly understood the right hon. gentleman in the same manner as those who had misrepresented him. The right hon. member had allowed to-night, that the new measures were an infraction of the rights of the people. He did not know whether the right hon. gentleman was still of opinion that they ought to be permanent; but if he allowed them to be an infraction of the liberties of the people, and at the same time contended for their permanency, the question was between an infraction of the people's rights and the support of the manufactures of the country. When gentlemen went home, and considered all the alarm which at present prevailed in the commercial and manufacturing districts; when they considered the measures which they were to pass, in order to diminish that alarm; he did hope that they would come into a resolution to probe to the bottom the source of all our evils. Whether they went into an inquiry into the business at Manchester, or not, he cared little; but there were some inquiries too important to be neglected, and into those inquiries he trusted that, before long, they would all agree to enter. tioned a dissent]. Two years after the | war had commenced, he (lord Folkestone) believed the hon. member had made a proposition for entering into negotiations for peace; but he was sure he was cor rect, when he stated, that that wicked war (applying the term to all wars) was supported most strenuously by the hon. gentleman himself. The distress which now existed could not have arisen from any war, unless that war had been accompanied by a system of misrule, and as during the last 25 years the country had always been under the government of the same men and the same measures, was there any reasonable ground for hoping that we should obtain any remedy for it from our present rulers? The right hon. gentleman, while he declared that it was entirely owing to the speech of the hon. mover of this debate, that he had not consented to the motion itself, described the object of the motion to be in his opinion, so wide, that no committee could possibly accomplish it; so that, according to the right hon. gentleman himself, it was not upon its merits that this motion was to be negatived. Shortly afterwards the right hon. gentleman found another reason for not entertaining it; it cast considerable obloquy on his majesty's ministers. The noble lord was, however, more frank in his declaration than was the right hon. gentleman. He had confessed that he would not allow the motion to pass, whether obloquy was or was not cast upon the ministry. As the noble lord's declaration preceded the declaration of the right hon. gentleman, he (lord Folkestone) might be permitted to suppose, that the right hon. gentleman's objection to this proposition arose from mere dislike to it, and not from the cause which he pretended-the obloquy cast by it on the advisers of the Crown. For his own part, he was free to confess that he did not conceive the proper place for taking this subject into consideration, to be either a committee of the whole House, or in a committee up stairs: it was a subject that ought long since to have attracted the attention of the government of the country, as was proved by one circumstance which he would mention, as well as by many others. The municipality of Manchester ought long since to have been changed. It was an immense town formed within a few years from a paltry village, and yet its municipality was the same now, when it possessed Mr. Peel, in explanation, declared that he had always considered the measures now proposed to parliament as a diminution of liberty; but there was only the alternative between those measures and anarchy and confusion. Mr. Bennet could not help thinking that the right hon. gentleman had acted unfairly in charging him with introducing the motion before the House in the shape of a party question. He had set out with declaring it as his intention not to make it a party question, and he had cautiously abstained from dwelling upon subjects that might occasion a difference, where unanimity was so essential. He had not wished to say any thing harsh of ministers, but in looking at the distress, it was impossible to separate it altogether from the discontent of the manufacturing parts of the country. It was in fact the very foundation of the discontent; if he had altogether refrained from touching upon that subject, he should have imitated the conduct of certain physicians, who, on being called in to consult on the case of a patient, talked of any thing but that case; but he was quite sure that in the course of his speech he did not use one inflammatory expression, or if he did, it was not his intention to apply it to his majesty's ministers. His object was, as he had already stated, conciliation; and the best means of attaining that object was a spirit of peace influencing their discussions. Although he had the infirmity of expressing strongly what he felt strongly, he had been perfectly calm and tranquil during the whole of the discussion; his purpose having been one which required that spirit. He thought that the House would do its duty by following that course which would elucidate the cause whence the evil sprung, and thereby restore the shaken confidence between the House and the public. He wished to see that House the living image of the people, but he was persuaded that when the intelligence of that night's debate went forth, and it should be known that the House of Commons had refused inquiry because in the progress of that inquiry it might happen that party politics would be introduced, it would produce great and alinost incalculable mischief. The question was then put and negatived without a division. BREACH OF PRIVILEGE-COMPLAINT OF A PAMPHLET INTITULED "A TRIFLING MISTAKE, &c." Mr. Courtenay said, he wished to put a question to the hon member for Yorkshire. It was, whether he intended to take any parliamentary notice of the paragraphs in a pamphlet which he had read in the course of the debate, reflecting so strongly on the character of the House. Mr. S. Wortley replied, that he had merely referred to them in the course of argument, and did not intend to found any proceeding upon them. Mr. Courtenay said, that he felt it his duty, as a member of parliament, to take notice of the publication, as the hon. member for Yorkshire declined doing so. He should therefore move that it be declared a breach of privilege. Mr. Brougham said, that upon a notice so suddenly given, he could not but implore his hon. and learned friend to check his present indignation, and to consult his pillow before he pressed his motion on the House. If it was persisted in, it would compel the House to go into a question of privilege, and then they must notice all the other publications which contained similar misrepresentations of their motives and conduct. The hon. member for Yorkshire had allowed that he had merely read the paragraphs in the way of argument. Were they never, then, to read publica tions like these to the House, without be ing under the necessity of dragging the authors to their bar? If they entered into every question of privilege, they would be brought into a distressing situation; they would either be induced to do too much, or would be compelled to do nothing at all. There certainly were occasions on which their privileges ought to be asserted; but the seldomer this was done, the better would it be for themselves and the country. Mr. Courtenay said, that as the publication had been brought before parliament, he felt himself bound to call upon the House to assert its privileges by summoning the author of it to their bar. He therefore gave notice, that to-morrow evening he should move a resolution to that effect. Mr. Brougham entreated his hon. and learned friend to reflect well before he determined on such a proceeding. The House had a number of privileges which had been violated at many recent meetings, and some of those violations were infinitely worse than those of which complaint was now made. If they went into this breach of privilege, they must also go into the others; and then he conceived that they must issue warrants, not only against those who moved the resolutions which contained such breach of privileges, but against every man at the meeting who consented to them; for they would not surely contend that those who adopted the resolutions were not as guilty as those who proposed them. The notice of motion was then entered. After which the House adjourned. |