by an order made by the lord mayor, in consequence of the examination which had taken place before the Committee of this House. There is, however, one material evil which has not been corrected, and which, I therefore presume, it is not in the power of the City to correct without the assistance of the legislature; the gaoler has no salary, but is remunerated for his trouble by an appointment to another office, the execution of which is not consistent with a due performance of his duties as gaoler. I come now to the consideration of the remedy which it may be proper to apply to the state of these gaols. It would be difficult to enter in an act of parliament into the detail of regulations to be observed in several distinct prisons, containing within their walls many different descriptions of prisoners, and I am therefore disposed to limit my view, upon the present occasion, to the establishment of an improved system of superintendence and inspection. The appointment of the officers of the gaol, (with the concurrence, I presume, of the sheriff, in the case of the keepers) and the power of ordering supplies for the use of the prisoners, are in the court of aldermen; the repairs of the buildings are executed under the direction of a committee of the common council, known by the name of the committee of city lands; the aldermen visit the gaols individually as magistrates, and occasionally give verbal directions there. I have been told, that this Bill is unnecessary, for that an arrangement may be made in the court of aldermen for three of their body to visit these gaols for three months, who may then retire, to be replaced by three others in their turn, so that all the aldermen may execute this duty of visiting the prisons in rotation. I cannot say that I see in this arrangement any promise of material improvement in the state of the gaols. To say nothing of other defects in this scheme, what uniformity of management can be expected in these prisons, if all those who superintend them shall be changed every three months, and shall then remain disconnected from them for the next year or two before they return again into office? I am satisfied that the prisons of London will never be on a proper footing, unless the City shall be compelled to manage them by a committee, appointed for that special object;-meeting, for that purpose, on the spot, (at least at the principal 1 gaols) from time to time, with a secretary to keep regular minutes and records of its proceedings,-appointing and removing (with the concurrence of the sheriffs as far as may be necessary) the officers of the prisons-with full authority to order all necessary repairs and supplies of every kind, and, in a word, to exercise all the powers and functions now vested in any part of the corporation on this subject. The nomination of such a committee would at least give the public the satisfaction of having some persons responsible, in character, for the good conduct of the gaols. If a letter should be addressed to such a committee by a respectable indivis dual, (like the late Mr. Neild) who, on visiting one of the city prisons, should find the prisoners in a state of distress and misery calling for relief, such a letter must be noticed by a committee of this description, which was not the case when Mr. Neild wrote to the lord mayor in 1804, giving him a detailed account of the then state of the Borough compter. Such a committee would be able, in all cases of emergency, to act without delay; if for instance it should ever happen that a vessel, laden with rugs for the use of the prisoners, should be frozen up in a canal on its passage, such a committee would not think it necessary to wait until a thaw should come to set free the vessel, (diminishing possibly at the same time, in some degree, the occasion for the rugs) but would probably find means to procure a supply of bedding in London before the end of the cold weather. If a committee of this description had existed some years ago, it is more than probable that many glaring defects in the construction of the new gaol, now building, would have been avoided. It only remains for me to state of what description of persons, in my view of the subject, this committee should be composed; it would of course be appointed by the same authority by which the other committees for conducting the business of the City are nominated. I hope it will not be imputed to me that I cast any censure upon the aldermen of the city of London, or intend any disrespect to them, when I say that, in my judgment, this committee should consist, in part, of other persons besides the members of their body, who may be placed in it. The aldermen are twenty-six in number, they are in general gentlemen much engaged in the active pursuits and business | prisoners, and in the general management of its prisons.-The hon. gentleman concluded with moving, " That leave be given to bring in a Bill for the better management of the prisons belonging to the city of London." of life, on their own private account, and they have, as we all know, in their public character, very important and arduous duties to perform. The extension of the circle of those from amongst whom this committee should be chosen, by making the deputies and common councilmen of the several wards, consisting of two hundred and thirty-six individuals, eligible to sit upon it, would very much increase the facility of procuring an efficient committee. Sir W. Curtis thought the hon. gentletleman was not borne out in the statement he had made. He wondered much at some parts of it. How were prisoners to be treated? Were they to be indulged with luxuries? Should that be the case, the prisons would be more crowded than at present by idle fellows coming there for the purpose of living well. The hon. This is the general outline of the plan which has suggested itself to my mind upon the present occasion; I do not, how-member had said, the alderman had opever, doubt but that any Bill which shall be brought in, upon a matter of such general interest as that now under consideration, will receive improvement in its progress through the House. I trust the House will not refuse to entertain a Bill upon this subject. The prisoners, whose condition I seek to improve, are not all criminal; a large proportion of them, the debtors, and some at least of those committed for trial, are only unfortunate; of such as are criminal, all have not offended in the same degree; and even those who are the least entitled to compassion, those who, by the magnitude of their offences, have forfeited their lives to the law, have nevertheless a right to receive from it in prison, until it shall exact the forfeit, sufficient sustenance and protection. I can hardly be persuaded, notwithatanding what I have heard on this subject, that the hon. aldermen of the city of London in this House, will oppose the bringing in of a Bill for the better management of their prisons, which will not go to take them out of the hands of the city; they cannot, surely, be jealous of lodging in one of their own committees the power of incurring such expences, on their behalf, as may be necessary to sup. port these prisons on a proper footing. It cannot be the wish of the representatives of the city of London that this great and opulent corporation, with large funds at its disposal for public purposes, the founder of many noble charities, encouraging by liberal donations almost every useful and benevolent institution which has risen up of late years in its neighbourhood, should in its gaols alone be found wanting, and should continue to be far behind the rest of England (which I maintain it now is) in the treatment of its (VOL. XXVIII. ) posed enquiry. He for one had supported it. The corporation saw there wanted amendment, and they were endeavouring to effect it. When the new prison was finished, the others would be greatly relieved, which were now too much crowded. The hon. gentleman had objected that no clothing was allowed to the prisoners. He would ask, was it the practice in any prison to do so? If it were, the gaols would never be empty. He was convinced many needy rogues would commit offences on purpose that they might get into prison and be well cloathed. Garnish money he thought should be done away with altogether. As to discipline, what discipline could they employ They could not flog them if they were disorderly; all they could do was to suspend their allowances, which was always done. If the magistrates of London were not worthy to be entrusted with the charge of the prisoners, they were not worthy of their situations. Mr. F. Douglas could not resist paying the unfeigned tribute of his admiration to his hon. friend for the manner in which he had brought this subject forward, and, as a member of the committee, completely confirmed every thing he had stated. He allowed that measures of improvement had been adopted since the report of the committee; but this was the best argument for the Bill, lest when all remembrance of the present discussion was over, things might relapse into their original state. Mr. Alderman Atkins stated, that at one time the gaol of Newgate was so much crowded, in consequence of particular cir cumstances, that it was impossible the pri soners could be properly accommodated. Had the hon. mover waited till the new prison was finished, and enquired into its (G) regulations, he would have had no cause for dissatisfaction. The hon. alderman seemed to wish that the Bill should for the present be postponed. Mr. Bennet said, that the committee appointed to enquire into the state of the prisons, had found that there was a great want both of food and of fuel in Newgate, but that the management of the keeper was entitled to commendation. To certain questions, put by some members of the committee, it was answered, that the prisoners were not punished when they got drunk, provided they were quiet; and if they were riotous, their friends were excluded that almost all the prisoners except those extremely hardened, were averse to be present when the condemned sermon was preached, and those who were religiously disposed were kept away from attendance in the chapel for fear of expoThe hon. gentleman expressed himself clearly in favour of the Bill. sure. ought to be done, he pledged himself that the court of aldermen would do every thing that was right and proper on the subject. Mr. Phillips observed, that if the magistrates, with their present authority, were competent to remedy the evils complained of, it was strange they had not done so before the presentation of the report of the committee. He denied the probability that the new jail would remedy those evils. It appeared to him to be very inferior to many buildings in the country of a similar description. It was not even fire proof, and was so confined, that it seemed intended to prevent, rather than to admit, the free circulation of air. Mr. Wrottesley declared, that the feeling and eloquence of his hon. friend had made an impression on his mind, and evidently also on the mind of the House, that would not speedily be effaced. He had heard nothing on the other side which had not confirmed his opinion of the absolute necessity of some legislative measure. Mr Alderman C. Smith would not oppose the motion, although he was persuaded that the report was overcharged. He Mr. Holme Sumner related the history of a visit which he had paid to Newgate five years ago, at which period great disorders prevailed in that prison. thought there was great ground for parliamentary interference; and, adverting to the new jail, condemned the mode of its construction, and expressed his hope that before it was opened, the House would appoint a committee to examine into its fitness, and into the way in which the money had been expended in its erection. Sir James Shaw contended, that as the jail was calculated to hold only 400 persons, the presence in it of near double that number must be attended with some disorder. He had no difficulty in saying, that in his humble opinion, as soon as the new jail should be completed, that disorder would be removed. He had himself stated to the hon. gentleman who had moved for leave to bring in this Bill, the extreme anxiety of the court of aldermen to do every thing in their power to remedy the evils complained of. It was their intention to order that all prisoners discharged by the magistrates, or discharged in consequence of no Bill having been found against them, should be exempt from the payment of fees; that regular reports should be made by the she- Mr. P. Moore, although he approved riffs to the lord mayor, of the state of the of the Bill, highly applauded the liberal prison; that the custom of garnish should manner in which the four members for the be abolished; that the keepers of the pri- city had met the discussion. A great resons should be paid handsomely in mo-medy for the evils complained of would ney, &c. He was persuaded that the be found in the diminution of the numkeepers of all the prisons were very soli- ber of prisoners, which the restoration of citous to prevent intoxication from taking peace would naturally occasion. place in them. Persons attempting to introduce spirits were heavily fined. As for the body out of which the hon. gentleman proposed that the committee of management should be appointed, he entertained the highest respect for them, but he asked what reason there appeared to be for suspecting that those to whom that duty was at present entrusted would not punctually fulfil it? If the committee would but point out what they thought Mr. Horner did not think that his hon. friend had duly considered the effects of peace upon the morals of the country. The object of the present Bill was not censure, but reformation. As to general pledges that might be held out, experience had shewn how they had been redeemed. There was a resolution of the common council in 1810, prohibiting the exaction of fees from prisoners who had been acquitted, which resolution had unwilling to interpose any thing which might protract the session to an inconvenient length. never been enforced, nor a single step | taken to enforce it. There was also another resolution against lunatics being confined in Newgate, and four lunatics were Mr. Whitbread observed that, considerat present confined in it. A larger gaoling the very extraordinary state of dissiwould not cure many of the evils; as, for pation, (he did not use the word invidiexample, the conduct of the ordinary of ously) in which the metropolis was at preNewgate, in the discharge, or rather in sent, he wished to submit it to the noble the neglect, of his duty, which discovered lord, whether it would not be better to a total want of feeling and principle. postpone, not only the particular discusHis examination before the committee sion in question, but every one of importwas more like the boasting of a buffoon ance, till all the necessary honours had than the gravity of his sacred character. been shewn to the illustrious personages Such conduct ought to have been known now among us. He understood that they to the city magistrates, and to have met were likely, after Monday next, to take with merited reprehension. Among the their departure; but then there was to be answers which he gave to the committee, the grand review at Portsmouth, which he when he was asked about the state of supposed would draw away many memmorals in the prison, he said he knew no- bers of that House. In short, what with thing about it. He was asked whether dinners one day, suppers another, and he did not attend the prisoners when they processions another, it was hardly possiwere sick, for the purpose of giving reli- ble to calculate upon such an attendance gious consolation? His answer was, that of members as might be desirable for the he never knew when they were sick, and discussion of great public questions, and was not called upon to attend until their he would therefore suggest the propriety funeral. Such answers appeared to shew of postponing them all over next week. a depravity of morals, that was more like While he was up, he would put another to injure than to improve the morals of a question to the noble lord, to save him the prison. the trouble of rising a second time. He Sir W. Curtis said that the court of al-wished to know whether it was the noble dermen had never seen the report till this day. He must confess, that some things which were now stated from the report deserved the greatest reprehension, and would doubtless have met with it, if they had been known to exist. Mr. H. Thornton gave his thanks to the hon. mover who had brought this ques tion forward in so able a manner. The prison in Southwark, also, required much more attention than had hitherto been paid to it. It seemed from its situation to have escaped the attention both of the magistrates of Surrey and of the city magistrates. Representations had been formerly made upon this subject, but they were all ineffectual. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. TREATY OF PEACE WITH FRANCE.] Lord Castlereagh rose and said, that pursuant to an intimation which he had given last week of postponing the discussion of the Treaty of Peace with France to an early day in the ensuing one, he should now propose, if it met with the approbation of the House, to fix next Thursday week for that discussion. He was anxious not to defer it to a later period, as he was lord's intention to produce a most extraordinary Treaty, which he had seen in a paper of that day, concluded with the person who, it appeared, was still to be called the emperor Napoleon, and to which this country had been a party? With regard to the other Treaty, which he had before alluded to, as he was actuated by no spirit of idle curiosity, but a desire to possess the fullest information in making up his mind upon the merits of the peace itself, he should certainly move an address to the Prince Regent for its production. He feared that in doing so, it would prove but a mere matter of form, though feeling it to be his duty, it certainly was his intention to persevere. Lord Castlereagh expressed his willingness to postpone the discussion, and fixed Monday week as the day for going into it. With respect to the particular treaty alluded to by the hon. member, he certainly had no objection to producing so much of it, both as to what had been rejected, and what acceded to, as we had any concern with, it being no treaty of ours. ARMY PRIZE MONEY BILL.] Mr. Long rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill, for the better regulation of army prize money, and to provide for the payment of unclaimed and forfeited shares to Chelsea Hospital. He preceded his motion, by urging the necessity at the present, more than at any former period, of carefully securing to the soldier the emoluments which he had so well earned and so gloriously won. He enumerated the difficulties which often impeded the real owner in the prosecution of his claims, owing to the many unaccredited agency channels through which the applications were made. Many regulations, however, had been made to correct those interpositions, in proof of which he had to state, that since 1809, the paymaster-general had received from various prize agents 365,000l. out of which 28,0241. had been applied to several claimants, and 104,000l. refunded in a similar manner-a balance remained of 163,000l. which was vested in the 3 per cent. consols, in Exchequer Bills, and in the Bank of England. One of the new regulations which he meant to submit was, that of making substituted agents answerable to the proper authorities, as well as their principals. Another was, to require at stated times, from the registrar of the Admiralty and Vice-Admiralty-court, a report of the sums in their respective hands, and of Chelsea-Hospital the same. Also, that all the several acts hitherto passed for those regulations should be consolidated into one, with a view to their more perfect elucidation, and for the purpose of at once giving to the subject the consideration to which it was entitled. Mr. Horner suggested a clause for the security of those sums which, though not hitherto claimed, perhaps owing to some impracticability, would yet now be called for on the return of a number of persons at the termination of the war. Mr. Long had no objection; his only object being the better security to the public, of whatever amount remained at a certain time unreclaimed. Sir J. Newport begged to submit the necessity of establishing an office in Ireland for the adjustment of this branch of the public service: an intermediate and authentic regulation of this kind was actually necessary. To his own knowledge considerable mal-practices prevailed, owing to the ignorant confidence of poor persons, who had placed their papers in the hands of designing men, who not only recovered sums of money, which they afterwards withheld, but also detained the papers to the great injury of persons so confiding in them. Mr. Rose concurred in the right hon. baronet's observations. Mr. Babington enquired whether any relief was intended for those persons who were unacquainted with the particular description of the captures in which they had served. Mr Long could not see how it was possible to effect such an object, if the parties were unprepared with the necessary information. Mr. Babington observed, that in the sea service he understood a regulation of that description existed; therefore why not extend it to the land? Sir C. Pole earnestly hoped that the treasurer of the navy would not allow the present session to pass without the introduction of a Bill to regulate West India prizes. A Bill was already in preparation for that purpose, which was not rendered less necessary by the peace. Mr. Rose informed the hon. member, he hoped on Monday to be enabled to meet his wishes on this point, particularly with reference to some regulations for Barbadoes and Antigua. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. MADHOUSES' BILL.] Mr. Rose begged to postpone, until Monday next, the consideration of the report on this Bill. Mr. Bennet suggested the necessity, in the absence of many members, of deferring the consideration until the next session. Mr. Rose said, the Bill had been introduced last year, and had been amply considered in a committee up stairs, who were unanimous for its adoption. It had also been printed and transmitted widely throughout the country. If the hon. member really knew the horrible and barbarous cruelties which were inflicted in those asylums, he would unite with him for the most speedy application of a remedy; he was, therefore, against postponing the Bill beyond Monday. Mr. Wilberforce lamented his inability to have attended the committee, in which his right hon. friend (Mr. Rose) had so much distinguished himself by the introduction of this measure to the consideration of parliament. Mr. Thompson was strongly in favour of an immediate discussion, and complimented the right hon. gentleman upon his diligent pursuit of so humane an object. The Bill was actually necessary. He had closely |