ing his duty, if he did not endeavour to impress upon the House the necessity of extreme caution and consideration, before they adopted any of those measures. He fully concurred in one part of the noble lord's speech-in the confident hope that the House would stand by the constitution. He conscientiously hoped that they would not suffer the proudest pillars of that constitution to be pulled down by the audacious hands of ministers. He would put it to every gentleman in the House-to those, even, who cheered the noble lord's speech-whether, on their conscience, they did not believe that the objects of the noble lord were, on the one hand, to put down the liberty of the press, and, on the other, to prevent all public meetings. County meetings were indeed left open; but, after the so prevailing fashion of the sheriffs refusing to convene them, could it be mistaken, that the noble lord's object was to prevent altogether those numerous meetings, in which Englishmen communicated to one another their sentiments of attachment to the laws and the constitution, and of opposition to the inroads of arbitrary power? Besides these measures, as if they were not considered sufficiently severe, there was what he conceived a most serious attack on the liberty of the press. On this subject he begged of the House to consider fully the nature of the course that had been already adopted. Scarcely had a statute been passed connected with this bulwark of our liberties for the last thirty years, which had not placed additional trammels upon it; and what was now the result? Why, that ministers felt themselves called upon to ask for new measures of severity. They had thus, on their own showing, only made the matter worse by continued restrictions. Now, he would ask, whether, having failed in so many trials of one course, it would not be prudent and politic to resort to another, and see what might be done by that? Upon one of the proposed measures he begged to offer a word; it was that which went to restrict the right of traverses under particular circumstances. The noble lord had said, that he did not see why, when a man accused of a capital offence could not put off his trial without stating strong grounds, such an indulgence should be given in cases of misdemeanor. One would think that the noble lord was wholly unac quainted with the forms of law upon this

subject.

The cases were very different. In the case of felony, the person knew from the first the particular crime of which he was accused. It was stated in the warrant of commitment. But the man accused of misdemeanor very frequently was ignorant of the precise nature of the charge against him, until after the grand jury had found the bill. It could not, therefore, generally speaking, be expected, that he would be then ready to proceed to trial. Indeed, the cases, if he was not mistaken, to which allusion had been made (the cases of the commitment for a conspiracy at Lancaster), were in point upon this subject. There the parties had been detained in solitary confinement for 11 days, and it was then uncertain whether they were to be charged with conspiracy or treason. They were at length accused of a conspiracy, and they could not of necessity until that moment know the nature of the charge. Would it then be surprising, under such circumstances, that men should not be disposed to go to immediate trial? He would not now advert to the other topics embraced in the speech of the noble lord, but he could not help remarking on the tone and manner of the noble lord on the occasion. The noble lord would wish the House to think it an act of kindness on his part, that some of the measures were not most severe. In his kindness he had said, that it was not intended to make the stranger who should remain a quarter of an hour at one of these meetings after it was ordered to disperse, liable to the punishment of death. In his kindness he had mentioned, that it was not intended to put a general censorship on the press; in his kindness he had informed them, that it was not intended to take away the invaluable privilege of trial by jury. But, notwithstanding this apparent kindness, he trusted that the House would see and understand the real nature of the measures proposed; and if they did not resent the tone in which their dearest rights were treated of, they could not be possessed of the spirit which it was imagined belonged to every Englishman. He could not help connecting the words of the noble lord with what had fallen from his hon. and learned friend on a former night. Only one of the measures which were now proposed was to be local and temporary, all the others were to be perpetual, and to apply to the whole country. Mark the conduct of the ministers in this case.

They had brought down evidences of disturbances in a particular part of the country, which might pass away, as they had passed away before. They had brought down measures restrictive of liberty, general and for all time to come. His hon. and learned friend, in referring the other night to the seditious publications which had been allowed to go forth in different parts of the country during the last two or three years, had fairly asked, why they had not been prosecuted, and their authors punished? He had said at the same time, that although he did not think this neglect intentional, yet it would seem as if those publications had been permitted to accumulate, in order that a pretence might be found for striking a blow at the general liberty of the press. Would his hon. and learned friend now think, after what he had heard, that there had been no intention? If he did, he (lord Folkestone) for one, differed from him on that point. Again, he asked, why these publications and practices of a seditious nature had not been sooner checked? Why had not the law of the land been before applied? According to the opinion of the learned solicitor-general, the seditious practices complained of might have been checked by the existing law; for he had declared that they were contrary to the law. The magistrates of Manchester themselves had said the same thing, and in their letters, upon which all these proceedings were to be founded, had over and over again complained of these meetings and practices, and begged to be enabled to arrest their progress. They prayed ministers for some clue to direct their proceedings; but ministers would give none. From the account of the affray of the 16th, it appeared to him to be very evident that ministers wished not the event that took place, but that which arresting Hunt in the face of the meeting it was very probable would occur. They had let the mischief grow up, and the storm gather to its present height, in order to induce parliament to pass, and the people to sit by whilst they passed measures restrictive of the rights, and subversive of the liberties of the subject.

Mr. Brougham said, it was not his intention to trespass long on the attention of the House, but he felt it due to his hon. friends and himself to state why it was they did not wish to take the sense of the House in this stage of the proceedings. It was not because they did not object to

the proposed measures as a whole. It was not because they now concurred in any part of them for against the spirit which pervaded the whole, he fully agreed with his noble friend who had just sat down, in entering his solemn and decided protest. But at this time, when they were so little aware of the detail of the noble lord's plans of restriction, when they knew so little of what was really meant, when the parts were so little before them, he thought it better to take the sense of the House at another stage. They were now but little aware of the precise shape of this momentous measure for putting down public meetings, by confining every man to his parish, and even by cutting and carving particular parishes, according to a standard of numerical propriety, so that every man called to a public meeting, must consult the population abstract, to know whether the population was 19,000, and he might go, or 20, that he must stay away. The noble lord had not said whether the new act was to apply to meetings within doors, to assemblies in taverns, or to associations purely literary. He had not told them whether it would be lawful to attend a Bible meeting, or assist in promoting a charity out of one's own parish.

An hon. friend of his had lately attended a public meeting at Kendal, for a good purpose, but in a sort of itinerant manner: was it now to be understood that he should be no longer allow. ed to attend such meetings, unless he belonged to the parish in which they were held ? The right hon. the president of the board of control, whom he regretted not to see in his place, and the more so as he understood his absence was caused by indisposition, must be in favour of the principle which he (Mr. B.) now urged, as his practice had been in accordance with it. The right hon. gentleman had attended meetings in this very county of Lancaster, out of his own parish too, above ground and below ground, in all sorts of places-at Liverpool before his election, and at Manchester, after it—at Manchester, of which he could not be member, and at Liverpool when he was not its inember. Was it to be now said, that a repetition of such conduct would be illegal? Or did the noble lord mean not to extend this measure to canvasses for elections? Did the noble lord mean to say, that no person proposing himself as a candidate for . in parliament should be allowed to address a meeting in

his canvass, unless he belonged to the place for which he offered himself as a representative? What distinction did the noble lord make with respect to parishes having 20,000 inhabitants, and other less populous parishes? How was the act intended to operate in conterminous parishes, in one of which a meeting should exceed a certain number? Were strangers to be warned off, as soon as the excess in point of numbers was perceived? Or suppose some hapless orator were to stand exactly in the boundary, and address two parishes, one having a greater number than the act allowed, would it not then appear that one part of his frame might be committing an illegal act, because although on one side he addressed himself to 10,000, on the other his auditors exceeded that number? Another ground why he and his hon. friends did not wish to press this question to a division was, that they had no information as to the facts alleged. There were many assertions, but not one had yet been proved. He would not now give any farther opinion upon this subject, but he trusted that, unless the House should get security for the truth of all the facts now brought forward as the ground and justification of these measures, and for their absolute necessity, they would object to them in toto. Even should those facts be substantiated, he would not now pledge himself to the vote which he might feel it his duty to give on any part of these measures. As to the liberty of the press, and the proposed restrictions on it, he would only say, that, admitting a certain degree of mischief to exist, and allowing that something should be done, yet one of his great objections was, that while the proposed measures tended to submit that great blessing to a kind of arbitrary authority, they did not tend to provide a remedy for the actual evil complained of. What that remedy should be he would not then pretend to say; but he pledged himself to oppose every restriction which did not, in his opinion, provide one; and at some future period to put the House in possession of his views on the subject.

Lord Rancliffe observed, that it had been his custom to express his sentiments merely by his vote; and he should not now have deviated from it, but that being convinced by the reasons of his hon. and learned friend, he would not press this matter to a division, and was therefore (VOL. XLI.)

desirous of declaring, that he regarded the whole of the proposed measures as highly unconstitutional.

Mr. George Lamb thought the time was now arrived when the House should show that it meant to deal even-handed justice to the people. He viewed with perfect horror the measures which had been proposed; but he wished to know whether there was to be a scintilla of justicesomething like a show of reparation-to the people for a right taken away? When the House was about to pass measures restrictive of their liberties, and to deprive them of some of their ancient privileges, it would be but fair to remove certain practices which they, on their part, had found to be oppressive. He would ask the attorney-general whether, when the right of traverse was under some circumstances to be taken away, and the party accused put immediately on his trial, it would not be just that he, the law-officer of the Crown, should be deprived of the power of suspending ex officio informations for any length of time, over the heads of his majesty's subjects.

Strangers were again ordered to withdraw, and the gallery was cleared, as if for a division. None, however, took place: the bill was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Thursday.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, November 30.

STATE OF THE COUNTRY.] The Marquis of Lansdowne rose, in pursuance of his notice, in furtherance of a duty, the importance of which he most seriously felt, to propose to their lordships to appoint a committee to inquire into the state of the country, and more particularly with reference to the distress of the manufacturing districts, and the execution of the laws. In doing this, he felt all the difficulty of the task he had undertaken, and was sensible how much reason he had to lay claim to their lordships' indulgence for the details into which he should find it necessary to enter in bringing this important subject under their consideration. He was aware, however, that he came before them at a time when there could be little difference of opinion as to the momentous nature of the subject on which he was addressing them. It had been common, and nothing was more natural on ordinary occasions, to impute to noble lords on that side of the House, (2 E)

a disposition to magnify the dangers of the country, and to accuse the noble lords on the other side of placing them in a point of view by which they were too much diminished. But, at the present moment, this difference of opinion did not prevail. Indeed, when he recollected what had taken place within these few years; when he considered that within the last month there had been added to an already large standing army, a force, or rather a new army, greater than that which a hundred years ago had been thought sufficient for internal defence, and external operations; when he found their lordships' table, and that of the other House, covered with measures for restraining the liberty of the subject; when he saw all this, joined to the great anxiety which every where prevailed respecting the state of the country -an anxiety which was greatly increased by the conduct of those in whose hands the government of the Prince Regent was placed-he was convinced that it would be a waste of their lordships' time to offer any argument on the extent of the existing danger. He felt this conviction the more, when he considered that their lordships were called upon by the Prince Regent's ministers to adopt measures to check or avert the evil. It must from all these circumstances be admitted that a prima facie case was made out for requiring their lordships to consider the nature and cause of the danger, and the remedies which ought to be applied.

To perform this duty, it would be necessary for their lordships to take a large and comprehensive view of the situation of the country, in order that they might be enabled to make up their minds to the whole extent of the mischief, and to the means of cure; and, in particular to ascertain whether they had nothing more to do than to pass the bills which the noble secretary of state had recommended for their adoption, and then to return tranquilly to their duties or amusements in the country. The variety of considerations that offered themselves, and the difficulty of making out particular cases, were the chief reasons which induced him to bring the subject in the shape he proposed before their lordships. He was confident that it would be a great mistake, were their lordships to content themselves with taking a partial view of the situation of the country. To look merely at partial danger would tend only to mislead, and produce a false conclusion. This kind of

error would be inevitable, if they founded their opinion on any single circumstance or transaction, without connecting it with the whole situation of the country, and bringing under their review not only the events which had taken place, but the causes of those events. No man could look at the events which had recently occurred, but must feel that violence was to be repressed by violence, and that sedition of every kind was to be put down by the law. But when the violence was repressed, and the sedition subdued, was not the evil which had led to that state of things to be explored? Were their lordships to stop at this point, and forget that it was their duty to look farther, and to consider how the causes of the evil could be removed? Their lordships must not be satisfied with finding a case made out with respect to the circulation of seditious publications; but must inquire into the cause which produced them, and obtained for them readers. It was not sufficient for them to know, that itinerant demagogues had travelled over the country, addressing seditious harangues to multitudes of people; they were bound to make themselves acquainted with the causes which had produced these extraordinary effects, and to ascertain why so many tongues were thus employed, and why they found so many ears disposed to listen to them. It would be in vain to attempt to discover these causes by any partial view or examination, as it would be absurd to account for them by their effects. From all that their lordships had seen, it appeared that there existed among the people a strong desire that something should be done to ameliorate their situation. Whatever desire there was of change, it appeared to be founded merely in a feeling of uneasiness, and exhibited a wish to embrace any scheme whatever, which might appear calculated to give them relier. Looking, then, at all the circumstances which had come to their lordships' knowledge, it appeared that one principal cause of this feeling, and one which unfortunately was founded in truth, was distress. He did not mean to say that there were not other causes which were calculated to excite great jealousy among the people-a jealousy even justified by the acts of that and the other House of Parliament; but it was evident that the spirit which, under the name of radicalism, had prevailed in different parts of the country, had always taken a deeper

root, and more vigorously flourished, in proportion to the extent of the distress of those to whom that fallacious and destructive doctrine was recommended. This would be evident, if their lordships took the trouble to compare the state of the agricultural and the manufacturing districts. The agricultural labourers, though not in that happy situation in which they had formerly stood, were much better off than the labourers or manufacturers. Accordingly, it would be found, that it was in the manufacturing districts only that the mischief which their lordships were called upon to correct had any existence. If he went farther, and inquired among what descriptions of manufacturers the poison was most widely diffused, he was again compelled to point to those who were suffering under the greatest degree of distress. Among the cotton-manufacturers, whose situation was worse than that of any other class, the spirit of radicalism had been carried to the greatest extent. It was important that their lordships should feel the truth of this view of the subject, in order that their attention might be fully directed to the state of the manufacturing districts, which formerly employed so great a part of the population of the country. From statements which he had before him on the table, he could prove to their lordships, that in all the great stations of the cotton-manufacture, such as Manchester in England, and Glasgow and Paisley in Scotland, the earnings of the manufacturers had, at an average, fallen more than one half. Even adding all that could be obtained by working additional hours, the average rate of payment did not exceed 5s. a week in the principal manufacturing districts. There were, however, other places where, from local circumstances, the master manufacturers could not afford to give even so much as 5s. a week. This was the case at Maybole, in Scotland, and some other parts, where, from the smallness of the capital of the master manufacturers, they had been compelled to reduce the rate of wages to half-a-crown per week. There were other places where the price varied to 4s. and 5s., and where some addition was supplied to the labourer from other sources.

He would not trouble their lordships by entering farther into the details which the papers before them afforded; these details were all ofthe same description, and proved to demonstration, that it was this

lamentable distress which afforded employment to the agents of sedition. It was the material on which they worked. It became their lordships to turn their attention to this distress, and to investigate its causes. Those causes appeared to be of no recent date, and their operation might be traced, through the last twenty years, to measures of political economy, connected with the political events of the times. It was one effect of great civilization to produce a great quantity of fixed capital; and the greater that capital was, the greater became the difficulty when any derangement of its usual course of employment took place, of throwing it into new and productive channels. That very division of labour, too, which was another consequence of social improvement and high civilization, formed on such occasions an additional evil; for the workman became a part of the same fixed capital, inasmuch as the talent and ingenuity he had acquired in his particular art or manufacture could not be otherwise employed. It was in every sense of the word, in his hands a fixed capital, which he could not remove to any other productive source of employment. When a great proportion of the population of a country was employed in manufactures, of which a diminished demand suddenly took place, the distress produced must be great. The mastermanufacturers lowered the rate of wages : this reduction induced the labourers to work a greater number of hours; and thus more goods were produced, which served only to add to the evil. During the late war it happened (for it was the effect of every war to throw capital into new channels), that various profitable branches of commerce were carried to a great extent. In the course of a contest which had continued longer than any other in which the country had been engaged, and which was connected with a monopoly of the carrying trade, the commercial advantages which presented themselves were necessarily great. The effect of the profitable employment of capital was, to raise up a vast population, supported by means which, from their very nature, could not be permanent. Intimately

connected with this circumstance was the disproportion which naturally followed between the agricultural and manufacturing part of the population, the latter being to the former in the proportion of of 900,000 families to 700,000.

The