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of arms.

did, he felt himself imperatively called upon to declare, that, from all the observation which he had been enabled personally to make, and from all the information which he had derived from his agents, there did not appear the slightest reason to believe that the assertion was founded in truth. He was bound to state this, as it might otherwise be supposed that his silence implied a concurrence in the accuracy of the noble earl's declaration. He wished also to state, with reference to the assertion cited in the debate of last night, that 700 men, with concealed arms, proceeded from a village three miles from Newcastle, to the meeting near that town on the 11th of October; that he entirely agreed with the hon. member for Northumberland in saying, that, from all the information which he had been able to procure on the subject, not one of the individuals alluded to was armed. Before he left that part of the country, he took all the means in his power to obtain information on the subject of the supposed secret manufacture It had been stated to him by the foreman of a large iron manufactory, in the neighbourhood, that he considered it impossible that any arms could be secretly manufactured by the workmen there employed; for that the raw material was weighed out to them in the first instance, and the manufactured article weighed when completed. It was impossible, therefore, that they could use any of the iron belonging to their employers; and in his opinion they were too poor to purchase iron. He sincerely believed, therefore, that from the stigma of being engaged in any such atrocious practice as that imputed to them, the population of his neighbourhood was entirely free. God forbid that he should say the noble earl did not implicitly believe the statement which he had made; but he had probably received his information from persons not entitled to credit. It had been suggested to him by some of his hon. friends, that he ought to name the noble earl. It was the earl of Strathmore. Although the inferior classes in his neighbourhood were firmly and enthusiastically attached to the cause of reform, he was persuaded they entertained no hostility towards the constitution and the government.

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castle. He was peculiarly anxious to do this, from the general impression, that many of the persons attending the meeting at Newcastle, on the 11th of October, were inhabitants of Newcastle itself. He had been particularly requested by the inhabitants of that town to state, that there was scarcely a single person present at the meeting who was really an inhabitant householder of Newcastle. The meeting was held on the town moor, being the only place thereabouts sufficiently large for the purpose. The great number assembled, owing to the neighbourhood not being accustomed to such assemblages, excited considerable alarm. There were about 30,000 or 40,000 persons. He took it upon him to state, from the information of an individual who was present, and who saw the radicals marching in a body into the town, that they did not exceed 7,000 in number. When they reached the moor, and saw the assembly, and the kind of persons who were likely to take the lead in it, the greater part of them turned off, and went away, dispersing very peaceably. On the best information and inquiry, he was persuaded that there were no persons with arms present. He also wished to state, with reference to the other subject mentioned by the mayor of Newcastle in his letter to lord Sidmouth, namely, the turbulent conduct of the keelmen, that it had no connexion whatever with the disaffection which was supposed to exist in that part of the country. It happened about the period of the meeting that there was an unfortunate disagreement between the keelmen and the ship. owners. He had little doubt that the meeting was fixed by the leaders for the 11th of October, in the hope that they would be joined by the unemployed keelmen. It was highly creditable to the keelmen, that those who did attend the meeting were influenced only by curiosity, and took no part in the proceedings. He had that morning received a letter from the secretary of a society, calling itself the society of "Political Protestants" in that neighbourhood, a part of which he thought himself bound in justice to read. It could scarcely be necessary for him to observe, that he believed the principles of such a society were most mischievous, and that he was determined to do all that he Sir M. W. Ridley begged to be allowed could to put such principles down. But to mention a few facts, illustrative of the as the letter to which he had alluded dis real character of the meeting which had avowed any arming on the part of the rebeen held in the neighbourhood of New-formers, he would read a passage from it,

which was as follows:-"We challenge | our most inveterate opponents to say that we have in a single instance evinced a spirit of disloyalty. Our meetings have been open, and we have occasionally had the honour of the company of the officers of the police. Our books and papers are to be seen by all who choose to look at them. As to the accusation of our having concealed arms, we are persuaded that his worship, the mayor of Newcastle, has been misinformed on that subject. We are not quite such fools as some persons take us to be. We know that it is the right of every Englishman openly to have arms, and we also know, that to conceal arms is illegal. If, therefore, we wished to have arms, we should buy them openly, and hang them up in our houses. Our object is not revolution, but reform." Of course he could not pledge himself to the truth of one word which he had read, but he had thought that justice to the persons in question required that he should state their own character of themselves.

Lord Castlereagh observed, that whether the 700 men who marched to Newcastle from a neighbouring village were armed or not, was immaterial. What had fallen from the hon. baronet was perfectly sufficient to show that there were abundant grounds for apprehension and vigilance. That a meeting of between 30,000 and 40,000 persons had assembled, of whom 7,000 formed a regularly organized body, was a fact on which comment would be superfluous.

The House then resolved itself into the committee. The blanks in the bill were filled up; and the House resumed.

NEWSPAPER STAMP DUTIES BILL.] Lord Castlereagh brought in a bill "to make certain publications subject to the Duties of Stamps upon Newspapers; and to restrain the Abuses arising from the publication of blasphemous and Seditious Libels." On the motion, that it be read a first time,

Mr. Brougham rose to object to this bill even in its first stage. He conceived that all the bills lately introduced into the House tended to abridge the liberty of the subject. The present bill, however, went to abridge the liberty of the press, which he conceived to be the great pillar of the constitution; he, therefore, could not let it pass without entering his protest against it. As other opportu nities would occur, when he could enter (VOL. XLI.)

into the objections which he entertained against this bill, he should not trouble the House any farther at present.

The bill was then read a first time.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, December 6.

BLASPHEMOUS LIBEL BILL.] Lord Sidmouth rose to move the second reading of the bill for the more effectual prevention and punishment of blasphemous and seditious libels. He observed, that the title of the bill sufficiently expressed its object, and their lordships, he was confident, could not entertain a doubt of the propriety of checking, as far as possible, libels of the description against which the provisions of the bill were directed. The object of the bill was proposed to be accomplished merely by giving to the court the power of increasing the severity of the punishment which was now applied in cases of conviction for libel on a repetition of the offence. It was not proposed that any additional punishment should attach in the first instance to a conviction for libel, but that a defendant should, on conviction for a second libel, be liable, according to the judgment of the court, to the punishment of banishment or transportation. Having, on a former occasion, fully stated the nature of this bill, and the other measures connected with it, he should not trouble their lordships with any farther de tails at present; but should be ready in the course of the debate, to give any explanation which might appear necessary. He would only say, that whatever measures their lordships in their wisdom might think fit to adopt in the present situation of the country, they would all prove ineffectual unless means were found to check the licentiousness of the press. That li centiousness was the great source of the evil with which they had to contend, and if, after adopting the other measures, they did not agree to this, the remedy would be incomplete. The objects of the other measures, important as they were, could not be attained without this; for if it were not adopted, their lordships would still have in all its strength, that destructive virus, the pernicious effects of which, if allowed to operate, were certain and irremediable. He concluded by moving, that the bill be now read a second time.

Lord Erskine said, that public necessity, from the state of the country, had been assumed as the justification of this bill as it (2Z)

regarded alike blasphemous and seditious sources of the Crown, or of any new law publications; but no such thing was stated like the present, completely succeeded in in its preamble. It was most important putting down this odious nuisance. The that circumstances which were hereafter existing law he himself had found triumto justify, as a precedent, so extraordinary phant against them when he represented a change in the law, should be distinctly that body in the court of King's-bench, set forth and recorded; but the pream- and they were now never seen, and scarceble was nevertheless quite silent as to any ly ever heard of. How happened it, then, facts which ought to have induced the that the attorney-general, with the public House to assent to any measure whatso- purse at his command, could not accom. ever upon the subject. It merely asserts plish what a few private individuals had that "it is expedient to make more effec benevolently undertaken and succeeded tual provision for the punishment of blas- in? The reason was manifest: ministers phemous and seditious libels." But why had never properly put the law in action expedient? Had it been shown that the against them. They had contented themexisting laws were insufficient to suppress selves with prosecuting a few parodies them? The bill also applied alike to blas-published by Mr. Hone, which, however phemy and sedition-objects so very differ-improper and irreverend, were not aimed ent, that nothing could be more absurd at the religion of the country, but at his than to associate them, and to legislate on majesty's ministers and parliament; yet them as one, subjecting them to the same they failed in the prosecution from not adpunishments. The controversies of the dressing the charge and the argument numerous sects of Christians, however to the jury upon the real, and in his opiwidely differing from the doctrines of the nion palpable ground of offence. They national church, were completely and had no count in the first information rightly tolerated. Nothing in such dis- charging a seditious libel, and in that cussions were considered to be blasphe- which succeeded it they passed it by. In mous; but as to direct and indecent atone passage, if I recollect right, it was tacks on the truths of the christian reli- said, "Oh contemptible Boroughmongergion, on which the whole constitution of ing House of Commons, have mercy upon the state was founded, they were severely us your would-be constituents." Now, and justly punishable by the law as it without meaning to approve the present stood, and ought to be most rigorously construction of the House of Commons, enforced. The poor man surrounded by he was confident that the juries of Lonhis children crying for bread when he had don would not have sanctioned that pubnone to give them, would have no other lication under the ordinary laws, and with consolation than by looking forward to the their minds not disturbed by the suspenhope which christianity afforded. How sion of public liberty. He would have cruel, then, how intolerably wicked, to reminded them that the very same House disturb such pious faith, and to disqualify of Commons so constituted and so calumthe people for the performance of their niated, had been the parent of public liduty to the state. He would support, nayberty, now suspended; that the same go before his majesty's ministers in put- House of Commons so constituted and so ting down such pernicious publications: calumniated, had passed the Habeas Cornor was there the smallest difficulty in pus act, even the suspension of which was accomplishing it. But a totally different so justly alarming. That the same House question presented itself when new laws of Commons so constituted and so calumwere demanded. The law officers of the niated, had passed the libel bill which gave crown had already the amplest means in them the very privilege which they were their hands for the suppression of all inju- to exercise as a trust for the great body of rious publications. This was most clearly the people. Why, then, were new laws proved in the total suppression of another to be made because government mis-dispecies of libel formerly most destructively rected their charge? His excellent friend, prevalent, and equally injurious to morals the late attorney-general, had no other as blasphemy itself. When he came first course to pursue. To raise a cry for the to the bar, obscene publications, ruinous present bills, blasphemy was made the to youth of both sexes, were as openly ex- pretext in parliament, and it was to be folposed to sale in London as at the Palais lowed up in the courts. The Age of Royal in Paris; but a private society,Reason had then long been in the most without even the aid of the great re-extensive circulation, but never was pro

ten, that even before the libel bill, they took upon themselves to acquit him. Had they done otherwise, that virtuous work of Dr. Logan's could not have been sold but under the pains of felony under this pernicious bill before them. The House ought to beware how they inflamed the spirit and temper of the people against the government by new and odious attempts to punish them without measure or mercy. The people of England were not to be so subdued. They were accused of cherishing plans of innovation--but if the accusation was just, why was parliament to become an innovator? Instead of new and unexampled severities, it would be wiser to consider before it was too late of temperate and practicable reforms which would satisfy the well-intentioned and moderate, and induce the partisans of wild schemes to relinquish them. Nothing was wanting to put down blasphemy and sedi

secuted or adverted to, nor any other blasphemy, till they were blasphemed themselves in Hone's parody, and then it was too late to take the matter up upon their own account, and this was a faithful history of their defeat. He knew juries too well to believe that they would not have faithfully protected the institutions of the country however they might think that they were defective-but when public liberty was suspended, public justice was in a manner suspended also. He came now to a second description of libels against which the bill was directed, but without a shadow of justification. Of a blasphemous libel there could be but one feeling and one judgment; but publications might be and often had been charged to be seditious, which were virtuous, public spirited, and useful-writings which noble lords opposite might well think of fensive, but which disinterested, honest, men, ought to approve. Such publication but the execution of the laws. The tions, forsooth, even before final judgment, were to be seized by the crown and suppressed. By this bill, a verdict was a warrant for seizure and suppression, though the judgment might be afterwards annulled. The verdict against the dean of St. Asaph was in August, and under this law could not therefore have been afterwards circulated, but under the penalty of transportation. Yet he had shown the court of King's-bench in November, that taking even the verdict to have been justifiable, it was impossible to sustain any judgment on it, and he had not been ever heard in reply when the judgment was arrested. But even if this bill could nevertheless in that respect be supported, it would do mischief instead of good; the libel could only be seized in the hands of the party prosecuted, or his agent, and where they might be lying as lumber unsold, but the judgment of seizure would produce whilst in the hands of others, an extensive circulation. So much for making unnecessary laws instead of trusting to them that were of old times. There were many cases in which a subject had a perfect right to complain of proceedings of the executive government, and even of parliament itself. He had successfully defended Mr. Stockdale on that very ground, for publishing an attack upon the House of Commons, for circulating their own charge against Mr. Hast- The Earl of Harrowby said, he had ings long before the hour of trial, and yet listened with much attention to the noprohibiting all answers to it; and it was able and learned lord who had just sat noble act of the jury, never to be forgot-down, because he knew him to possess

novelty of seizure was once well exposed, and he would refer them for example to the conduct of Cromwell when Harrington's Oceana was seized before the liberty of the press was established by law. Harrington, who, republican as he was, continued faithful to the unhappy Charles, and fainted on his scaffold when he was executed, had this work nevertheless seized as a libel upon all government. Harrington sent his daughter to the daughter of the protector to ask her mediation, and seeing her child in her arms, seized it and ran away, and when she was called upon to return it, she complied, saying at the same time, "Your father had seized my father's child-give me back that as I have restored your's." This intercession was suc cessful, Cromwell saying to her, "If my government be made to stand, it has nothing to fear from a paper shot;" and he afterwards consented to accept of a dedication. Depend on it (concluded lord E.) this new system will only increase the evils you complain of. Give satisfaction to the people, and then, instead of passing new laws on the subject of sedition, you might soon dispense with the execution of the old ones. As to blasphemy, crush it at any hour with my assent, so as the laws for the general protection, of public freedom are not annulled and violated.

great practical knowledge on the sub-ble and learned lord had urged no serious ject under consideration; but after hav- objection to the bill. The ground on ing carefully attended to all that had which the measure was recommended to fallen from him, he could not see how his their lordships' adoption was, that the statements warranted the conclusion he species and circulation of the libels of had drawn, The noble and learned lord the present day differed in description began by making a distinction between and extent from all former publications. blasphemous and seditious libels, the just- It was impossible for any constitution to ness of which no man would deny; but escape from the evil effects of the moral although every blasphemous and seditious taint which such publications diffused. libel, was, as such, subject to punish- It was argued, that the courts could now ment by law, their lordships must have punish sufficiently; but the only penalbeen very inattentive to what was passing ties that at present attached to libel were if they had not observed the great differ- fine and imprisonment. But, were these ence between the libels of the present day sufficient at a time when such extraordiand those of former times. He readily nary means were taken to circulate blasadmitted, that there were greater shades phemy and sedition through every corner of distinction in seditious than were to of the country-when the labourer could be found in blasphemous libels, which not drink his cup of tea or coffee without difference would require the consideration at the same time partaking of the deleof those who executed the laws. It was terious poison? Was it, then, too certainly too much to argue, that a se- much to say, that a different punishcond libel must necessarily be punished ment should be inflicted, when an ofby the severest penalty of the law. The fence so iniquitous was aggravated by answer to such an argument was, that repetition? Did, then, any other punthe punishment was by the bill left to the ishment but banishment and transportadiscretion of the court. The noble and tion remain to be applied? Those who learned lord had contended, that the gave their support to these laws were the judges had at present the power of increas- sincere friends of the press They well ing the punishment on a second libel; knew that the liberty of England and the but the subject of complaint was, that by liberty of the press were inseparably the existing law they had not power in connected. It was because they loved many cases to render the punishment the freedom of the press, that they commensurate with the offence. The no- wished to guard against the evils to ble lord had inferred that the law at pre- which its misdirection gave rise. The sent must be adequate to check seditious freedom of discussion which belonged to and blasphemous libels, because a society the constitution of this country, those had succeeded in putting down obscene who recommended these bills were most publications. It was contended, that if anxious to preserve. They were not the the attorney-general had been as attentive enemies, but the well-wishers of the as that society, he would have succeeded press, who endeavoured to correct its in crushing sedition and blasphemy. This abuses. They were desirous of that correcargument was, however, singularly in- tion, in order to render the advantages consistent with another part of the noble which this country derived from the liand learned lord's speech, in which he berty of the press eternal. But no free represented the effect of prosecution to government could exist, if those (he be to encourage libels. At least this was knew not what to call them) reptiles, that a fair inference from the argument, that at present swarmed in every direction, the sale would be more extensive. The were permitted to gnaw the timbers of the noble and learned lord had supposed that vessel of the state until her preservation great injury might arise to the proper- became impossible. He was convinced, ty of a bookseller from a seisure which that their lordships, in spite of all that might afterwards be reversed on an arrest had been said, would perceive that the of judgment; and, if he understood him present measure, instead of injuring, rightly, there was little danger of this in- would strengthen public liberty, and jury occurring, since the great sale which that they would therefore sanction it by the prosecution would cause must, accord- their adoption. ing to the noble and learned lord's supposition, leave very little of the property to be seized. But the fact was, that the no

The Marquis of Lansdowne wished to offer a few observations, with regard to that state of vicious abuse of the liberty

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