rican coast, that there were of those of the enemy. Some allusions had also been made to our military warfare in that quarter; but no man would say, that in the present circumstances, we should divert our military means from Spain to increase our force in Canada. At present, such a measure appeared unnecessary. As to Ireland, he should merely remark, that as the Prince Regent could only notice what had been done in parliament, mention of that subject would have been unnecessary, and on the subject of peace in general, all must know, that a proposition to that effect made to the enemy, if not attended with good, must lead to incalculable mischief. peace, but this was the best thing that could have happened, to shew that there was still a power in Europe that not only dared to resist the conqueror, but to turn back his tide of success. This, however, was not a war in which this country was concerned as a principal. There was nobody here responsible for it, or answerable for its results. The hon. gentleman therefore had better have gone into the war in Spain, for there were persons in England responsible for that. The hon. gentleman had descanted at some length on the burning of Moscow, and had represented it as pretended on our part, that the people had set fire to their own houses. Nobody, however, had ever stated, that the people bad set fire to their own houses; the general feeling of the Russian people had only been adverted to as willing to submit to any sacrifice, and shewing their love of their own government, and their detestation of the enemy in all their towns and villages, by their continued and increasing exertions. The hon. gentleman had denied the similarity of the Russian retreat to that of Moreau; but if the Russians had retreated on a settled plan before a superior force, where was the dissimilarity? With respect, too, to the cavil at that passage of what had fallen from the noble secretary (lord Castlereagh) on the subject of the war in Spain: his noble friend had only spoken of Torres Vedras by way of comparison, and not as what was likely to happen. The hon. gentleman had also misrepresented our connection with Sweden. Much advantage had been gained by that alliance, and Russia bad been thereby enabled to throw a strong force into Riga, which not only checked the progress of the enemy, but occupied a very considerable portion of his attention. With respect to the siege of Burgos, he could not see that government was to blame. It was the spontaneous act of the general alone, and a very natural consequence of the result of the battle of Salamanca. With regard to America, it would not be fair to discuss that subject, nor could it be expected by the House to have laid before them and the public the necessary information respecting the negociation, till all hope should be lost of reconciliation. It was enough to say, that the necessary means Mr. Ponsonby, thinking he had been alhad been taken to have a sufficient navalluded to by a right hon. gentleman on the force in that quarter, and that, at the pre- floor (Mr. Canning), when he spoke of an sent moment, there were four times the intended Amendment, assured that right number of British frigates on the Ame- hon. gentleman and the House, that he Sir Gilbert Heathcote, who had seconded the Amendment, now shortly stated his reasons for supporting it. He thought that the gallantry displayed by our troops in Spain was highly creditable; but he deeply regretted that no negociations for peace had been entered into. He was the last man that would think of a dishonourable peace: yet while we went on with warlike preparations, and opposed an undaunted front to the dangers which surrounded us, a desire of peace should animate and direct all our actions, and always be the leading principle of our conduct. The effects of the battle of Salamanca were to put lord Wellington in possession of Madrid. But the Spanish Cortes, then, instead of deliberating on measures for the welfare of the nation, were employed in re-establishing that detestable court, the Inquisition. The advantages of continental alliances had often been questioned; but it remained for our days to see this country make itself the principal in a continental war: and to find the war continued for the purpose of supporting our revenues by the increase of our maritime commerce. To him measures were every thing, men nothing; although there were certainly persons beside him for whose abilities he entertained the very highest respect. The present war, which had driven the middle ranks of society from the parlour to the garret, was now about to attack the rich; but he thought a favourable opportunity for peace presented itself, of which he trusted due advantage would be taken. had no knowledge whatever of such Amendment, until he heard of it in his place this evening; and that it had never been his intention to offer any proposition of that kind. The Address proposed by the noble lord, was, as usual, a mere echo of the Speech; but the Amendment proposed by his hon. friend was of a nature widely different, it embraced a variety of topics, unconnected with the Speech or Address, and among other things, requested the Prince Regent to make propositions of peace to the enemy. This was by far the most important part of the Amendment. But before he came to it, he wished to make a few observations on the other subjects to which the hon. gentlemen who had preceded him in the debate had adverted. As to America the noble lord opposite to him had said, " that he was sure the gentlemen of the other side could not blame ministers for not having at once exerted the whole power of England against America, as, during the whole of the last session, they had not ceased to recommend conciliatory measures towards that country." If the noble lord meant to include him in those insinuations, he did not accurately recollect what he (Mr. P.) had then stated. When the noble lord came down to the House with his numerous evasions and tergiversations about the Orders of Council, wishing to retain them one day, to modify them another, to suspend them the next, and, lastly, consenting to revoke them, he had then clearly stated, that he was apprehensive those delays would prove fatal to the concession itself, which perhaps could no longer avert the threatened hostilities. He believed others had expressed the same opinion, but he was certain that he had. Some gentlemen had even gone further, and had said, that America, wearied by long refusals, would insist on her own terms; in which case he had declared that he would resist any pretensions contrary to the acknowledged rights and to the prosperity of England; that opinion he did not wish to retract; but before he expressed any opinion on the subject, he wished to know what had really passed in our negociations with America. He did not wish to praise or censure ministers without proofs. He had disapproved of their former conduct; it was with gladness he had heard them profess their conciliatory dispositions, and he would not now pass condemnation upon them without evidence. The noble lord opposite, adverting to the si tuation of affairs in the peninsula, had asserted, that surely ministers could not be censured if the exertions they had made had kept pace with the resources of the country; he was one of those who had repeatedly asserted, that Spain could not be saved by British but by Spanish troops. He had always thought, that the mode in which we assisted the Spaniards was injudicious, and he was still of the same opinion; if he was wrong, if the system adopted by ministers was preferable to his suggestions, how could they stand justified in having carried on so ill, a better system, that no lasting advantage had been derived from it? How stood government in the present instance? A most brilliant victory had been obtained by the marquis of Wellington; a victory owing entirely to his own genius, for, from what he had learned from good authority, there never was a victory which depended less upon chance, and the probabilities of which had been submitted to stricter calculations. Yet what was the result? The gallant chief had been obliged to evacuate Madrid, which he had wrested from the foe; he had been forced to raise the siege of Burgos, for want of sufficient means, pursued by that very army which had yielded the palm of victory to his superior genius. The noble lord had stated that Russia had demanded neither money nor military assistance from this country; and this he believed, for he saw no recommendation in the Speech to provide for assistance of that nature. Russia had not demanded of us to make any exertion in her behalf in the north; no, but in Spain, as exertions made by us there would be more beneficial to her and to Europe. Had, then, the noble lord and his colleagues done in Spain all that the resources of England allowed them to do, and still were our prospects in the peninsula no brighter than they have represented them to be? If so, it was useless to carry further an unprofitable contest; it was useless to waste the blood and the treasures of England for an object unattainable; and it became proved, that the power of England was not competent to drive the French out of the peninsula. But, on the other hand, the noble lord had asserted that the power of England was fully adequate to the task; if so, ministers alone were to blame if the French were not driven out of the peninsula. · If to comply with the earnest wishes of Russia they wanted additional means, they sessions, the inhabitants of which were anxious to procure their independence; and were highly blameable in not asking them before the end of the last session of the last parliament. He did not wish, how-by acceding to whose wishes, our monarch ever, to condemn ministers without proofs, nor would he attach the foul blame to them until he was convinced they had deserved it. With regard to Russia, he professed to know nothing. They might be a barbarous, a semi-barbarous, or a civilized people, as they had been various ly represented; but of this he was sure, that they had evinced feelings of which every civilized nation ought to be proud; feelings which neither philosophy nor refinement could teach, an invincible attachment to their native country. He could not forbear, on that head, paying his just tribute of applause to the Russians of all classes; to the government, to the army, and to the people; for all had vied with each other in sacrificing every thing for their country. How the contest might terminate he could not foresee, and, perhaps, he was not so sanguine as other people in his hopes of a successful issue; but this he was ready to acknowledge, that Russia had done more than was expected from her. She had done enough to disappoint sorely the invader, and to exceed all expectations which had been formed from the bravery of her hardy sons.-On the question of peace, as proposed in the Amendment, he was sorry, as he was at all times, to differ from his hon. friend. He was as desirous for peace as any man in England, could he see any way by which it could be attained; but the proposition of his hon. friend, if adopted, would go to put that desired blessing still farther from our reach; it would naturally raise the demands of the enemy, especially as the sufferings of the people formed the principal reason his hon. friend adduced to support his proposition. France would then say, the English government does not wish for peace, but the House of Commons forces them to it, owing to the misery of the people-let us keep up our demands, and we must have them on our own terms. He believed there was scarcely an instance, except during the American war, where parliament interfered, and made a peremptory call on government, or on the ministers of the crown to offer terms of peace. But these things did not stand on the same footing then as they did in the present instance. The war was not then a war between two independant countries, but between this country and a distant part of her own pos must have alienated a great part of his own sovereignty. He doubted much if a king could make such an alienation of his territorial dominions, without the advice of his parliament. An alienation of territory naturally and necessarily required the advice of parliament, to give it validity; and he did not believe that any minister would have ventured on such a measure, without the advice and consent of parliament.-But he would detain the House no further on this subject. As to the other objects of the Amendment, to obtain information on the different topics in the Speech, he thought this might easily be obtained in a less objectionable way, and on the whole he should vote against the Amendment. All the objects referred to in the Speech, and in the proposed Address of the noble lord, would require, and would undoubtedly receive further discussion and enquiry; and he hoped to see his hon. friend employ those great abilities he possessed, in the investigation of each individually. The state of our relations with America, and the causes which had led to it, particularly; and also the Treaty with Sweden, he hoped to see discussed in their proper place. This day, however, he saw no reason why the Answer to the Speech from the throne should not be as usual; and, in so doing, he repeated it, he thought we were more likely to attain peace, than by adopting the way pointed out by his hon. friend.-Adverting lastly to the Roman Catholic question, he observed, that certainly the executive go vernment was neither bound nor pledged to introduce that subject in the Speech. Considering, however, how connected that question was with the vital interests of the empire, it would have been wise in ministers to advise its being mentioned. Although not mandatory upon them in consequence of what had passed in the last parliament, yet it would have been politic and prudent to bring the matter forward under the sanction of government. From their silence, however, he concluded that they were still hostile to it; and the omission of that subject in the Speech, afforded him a proof that they did not intend to bring the subject forward. In consequence of this, and as a right hon. gentleman (Mr. Canning) who had last session made a motion in favour of the Roman Catholics, had now deposited his trust in the hands of a right hon. friend of his (Mr. Grattan) so properly qualified, he would now in the name and at the express desire of that right hon. friend, give notice to the House, that shortly after the Christmas recess, he would submit a motion to the House, on the necessity of repealing the disabilities under which the Roman Catholics still laboured. Mr. Elliot followed, and took up nearly the same grounds. He was happy to understand, that it was not the intention of his hon. friend to push his Amendment to a division. Had he been forced, however, to give a vote upon the subject, it must have been against the Amendment; because he thought that an Address, founded on the distresses of the country, and recommending the adoption of measures for procuring peace, would have the effect of retarding, rather than of accelerating that object-if, by a peace were meant, the advantages which ought necessarily to result from the accomplishment of such a measure. Mr. Vernon also expressed his satisfaction, that the Amendment was not to be pressed to a division, as he must have been under the necessity of voting against it. Before parliament addressed the crown on the subject of peace, he thought they ought to be satisfied of two things, first, that peace was attainable; and secondly, that the mode pursued was the most likely mode of attaining it. In the present instance he was convinced of the reverse of both of these being the case; and besides such an Address at the present moment would be unwise, as tending to infuse a distrust of our sincerity into both the Spanish and Russian governments,-peculiarly unwise at the present moment, when we had been obliged to allow the capital of Spain to fall again into the hands of the invaders, and when the emperor of Russia had evinced his sincerity in the contest, by sacrificing his own capital to his political honour. The question being called for, the Amendment was put and negatived, and the Address carried without a division. HOUSE OF LORDS. Tuesday, December 1. PETITIONS RESPECTING THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] The Duke of Gloucester presented a Petition from the University of Cambridge, against the Catholic Claims, and stated that he did so, having the ho nour to hold the office of Chancellor of that University, but that he was anxious to be understood as giving no opinion on one side or the other relative to the subject of the Petition. The Earl of Hardwicke observed, that due notice had not been given to the nonresident members of the University of the intention to set on foot such a Petition; to the consideration of which, he contended, the attention of the non-resident members ought to have been fairly called, it not being a question of religion, but of political expediency. To shew that the danger to be apprehended from the interference of the Pope was merely ideal, the noble earl observed, with reference to some late proceedings of the Catholic Prelates of Ireland, that the Pope was not to be found, nor could any communication be had with him. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Lord Grenville said that he had a similar Petition to present from the University of Oxford. The mere act of presenting a Petition at variance with his own opinions, was a thing so common in parliamentary usage, that he should not have thought it necessary to notice the circumstance. But both the illustrious personage who had preceded him, and himself, stood in a peculiar situation with respect to these Petitions. They come, my lords, from corporate bodies at the head of which we have the honour to be placed; and they purport to be the Petitions of the chancellors as well as of the other members of our two Universities. The illustrious personage has, therefore, thought it necessary to disclaim all participation in the prayer of the Petition which his Royal Highness has presented, and to remind the House that he has always hitherto (and from motives which all who know them must applaud) abstained from giving any opinion on this great question. For myself, however, I must go much further. My opinions upon it have been long publicly avowed. So far from concurring in this Petition, I am convinced that no other expedient could now be devised so certain and so effectual for bringing upon this country the very evils of which the peti- . tioners are apprehensive, as the adoption of that very policy which they so earnestly recommend. Thus much I stated to your lordships on a similar occasion last year, and my opinion remains unaltered. But I have now a still more painful duty to dis The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. BILL FOR THE appointment of a ViceCHANCELLOR]. Lord Redesdale presented a Bill for the better administration of justice, which his lordship stated to be the same as that which was before the House last sea sion, for the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor, and observed that it was quite im possible for any person, whatever might be his talents or his industry, to execute the multifarious duties which now de volved upon the Lord Chancellor, and that the consequence of his not having the requisite assistance, was a delay in the hearing of Appeals and Writs of Error in that House, which was most ruinous and oppressive to the parties concerned. The Bill was read a first time and order. ed to be printed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, December 1. charge. To the declaration of my unqualified dissent from the prayer of this Petition, I must add, that of my strong disapprobation of the terms in which it is expressed. It appears to me, by obvious and necessary construction, to convey a most injurious, unwarranted and groundless aspersion on the motives and principles of some of the best and wisest men both living and dead, who have ever adorned the councils or the senate of this country. It appears to me to extend this reflection even to the proceedings of the legislature itself. Such being, as I think, the import of the words according to their plain sense and meaning, it was matter of grave and serious deliberation in my mind whether I could be justified by any consideration in suffering my name to be affixed, even for form's sake, to such a paper. Nor am I yet sure that I have rightly decided. But if I have erred, it is on that side on which, if I err at all, I should wish my error to be found. I have erred from the desire of facilitating the exercise of the right of petitioningfrom the wish to promote free discussion on this momentous question, and to give full scope and due weight to whatever either of argument or of authority can be adduced against those opinions, the success of which has always been best proved by full and unreserved examination.-I was also greatly influenced by my firm persuasion that the words which convey to my mind this highly objectionable sense were nevertheless not so intended by the framers of this Petition. They are 28th August, 1812. men, I am confident, of juster and better "Sir; On the 24th of August I had the regulated minds than to be capable of honour to receive your letter of last Jasuch a purpose. They know, I'am cer- nuary, communicating the unanimous Vote tain, that nothing could be more unbe- of Thanks of the Commons of the United coming of their own peculiar stations Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, for that nothing could less befit a grave, and my cordial co-operation with the army reverend, and religious body, than the at- acting under the command of lieutenanttempt to judge the consciences of others, general sir Samuel Auchmuty, in the late and to fix an injurious calumny on the operations on the Island of Java. I beg motives of those from whose opinions they leave to express to you, Sir, the high value may chance to differ. They are also, II place upon this distinguished mark of must believe, men far too wise, and of judgments infinitely too enlightened, not to be sensible that if disgrace should attach any where, it must fall on the authors of the calumny, and not on those to whom it is applied. For them, therefore, as well as for myself, I publicly disavow any such interpretation of their Petition; and it is in this persuasion only that I could think myself authorised to present it to your lordships, and to move that it may lie on your table. (VOL. XXIV.) ANSWER OF ADMIRAL STOPFORD TO VOTE OF THANKS.] The Speaker acquainted the House, that he had received from rearadmiral the hon. Robert Stopford the following Letter, in return to the Thanks of this House, signified to him by the Speaker, in obedience to their commands of the 10th of January last; "Cape Town, Cape of Good Hope, approbation of my conduct upon that oc- "Charles Abbot, esq. |