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now. Certainly various amendments can be made to the proposals, but let us right now begin a calm and friendly discussion of those proposals, just as we did at San Clemente in a truly friendly spirit.
Now our conversation may present a few ideas. Some of the world's greatest discoveries and inventions were made by the greatest scientists sort of off the cuff. Therefore, I believe in this case it is another thing we must take into account. The Security Council was convened at the initiative of the United States, and is still in session. As I now see it, if we start trying to work out a set of proposals bypassing the Security Council, that would not be the best way of acting. So I think we should endeavor not to violate the UN Charter, those provisions of the Security Council should be maintained.
We should give preference to the following method. Make an effort to elaborate proposals which could in a form that had been agreed by us be submitted to the Security Council in the hope that the Security Council will vote in favor of those proposals. I believe if we do succeed in elaborating such proposals, any point we agreed on should be mutually acceptable. Give no one a unilateral advantage, the Arabs, Israelis, the Soviet Union or the United States. They should be couched in such terms as to promote the good relations established between our countries, in such terms as would enable us to go further forward along the path we have chosen for development of our relations and the good will existing between us. And that also would be absolutely correct from our point of view for in international practice our two sides will have to take a constructive decision on these matters. If we just acted alone, we might have to face questions from various quarters and they might be so numerous that a full year would not be enough to cope with them.
K: I think we should follow the plan outlined by the General Secretary. I think we should attempt to come to some understanding here, then discuss it with the parties, and if we agree, have the possibility to exercise great influence on the parties, and then submit it to the Security Council. And, then after the cease fire, our two sides can continue exchanges on how to move towards peace, towards the final solution.
B: I have one substantial comment to make regarding this. I will be quite frank. I will not conceal. Let us endeavor to reach a constructive solution. You know as well as we do how contradictory the views and attitudes of the two sides are regarding the present situation, especially today, when there is a war on in the area. If we reach agreement here between us, and I am sure we can do that, and if we then start talking, we with the Arab world and you with the Israelis, the Israelis will confront you with so many questions as the Arabs will with us, our agreement will be worth nothing. We will not be able to act jointly in the Security Council. It will mean all we have talked about, about being able to influence the sides, agreeing to reach solutions, all that will hang suspended. We will lose our prestige, and they will say we were only pretending we can influence the parties, and in fact we cannot. As soon as we reach agreement, let us submit it to the Security Council. Then another matter arises, informing the sides. We can say this is what we have agreed to and are submitting to the Security Council. That is what we are going to do and you can do whatever you like. It is the only way to proceed.
K: Mr. General Secretary, I propose we try to reach agreement. We can then decide on tactics. In principle, if we reach agreement, then we should submit it soon after to the Security Council to bring about an end to the hostilities.
B: Let us indeed take that method. Let us then proceed to a point by point discussion. Let us take up all these things. We are prepared to
K: How do we do it? Let me read yours and then give you our suggestions. Would that be acceptable? First point, as I have it from your Ambassador was, “A call to the sides to immediately cease fire and all military action on the positions where the troops actually are."
B: That's correct.
K: Let me read the redraft I have. It is very similar to yours, only a little more precise.
B: Please. I am sharpening my knives for peaceful purposes. (Picking up a knife to eat an apple.)
K: "Calls upon all parties to the present fighting, including those who are not directly involved but have sent military units to the area of combat, to cease all fighting and terminate all military activity immediately in the positions they now occupy.” It is really only a little more precise.
B: Is that all of point one?
K: The only difference is that we just want an equal commitment from other Arab countries, that's the only difference. Should I go on?
K: I'll read your point, then our point. “Call upon parties to start immediately after the ceasefire a phased withdrawal of the Israeli troops from the occupied Arab territories to the line in accordance with Resolution 242 of the Security Council, with completion of this withdrawal in the shortest period of time."
B: Yes, I have it before me.
K: Ours is much shorter. "Calls upon parties concerned to start immediately after the ceasefire ...
B: Would you write it?
K: It's very short, yes, we will give it to you in writing. “Calls upon parties concerned to start immediately after ceasefire the implementation of Security Council Resolution 242 in all of its parts." I must say this-just for your information—it has not been at all discussed with Is
— rael. In fact, they have told us that they do not accept any linkage with 242. I just wanted to tell you. We are submitting this as an indication of our willingness to proceed in the spirit the General Secretary outlined.
B: We will get a translation. I will then look into it in greater detail. It is very difficult to get all the details by ear. I trust you will give it in writing.
K: Point three. I will read yours, just as a check, then I will read our point three. “A decision to start immediately and concurrently with the ceasefire appropriate consultations aimed at establishing a just and honorable peace in the Middle East." Just for checking.
B: Durable peace.
K: I was wondering, I have never seen the word “honorable" before ...
B: It is durable.
K: We have for point three. “Call upon parties concerned to start immediately and concurrently with a ceasefire appropriate negotiations under appropriate auspices aimed at achieving paragraph two above and aimed at establishing a just and durable peace in the Middle East."
Sisco: "appropriate auspices to establish ..."
K: "Aimed at establishing ... aimed at establishing a just and durable peace in the Middle East." And if you wanted—we don't insist on it—what we mean by just and durable peace—“in conditions of mutual security and respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area within secure and recognized borders." We will write it out and give you a text. B: What a hard time I have with you.
B: After this discussion I am going to file an application. We have a higher diplomatic school. I'm going to take that course. It may be easier to talk to you.
K: We have never failed yet, Mr. General Secretary, in our negotiations and we won't fail in this one.
B: That seems to be a promising prospect. I have a feeling we are going to have a nice dinner together tonight, starting off much earlier than we did yesterday, which will be a prize for us.
K: I wouldn't bet on it.
B: While we are waiting for the texts, why don't we have some tea. It will be on a reciprocal basis. We are going to foot the bill. The Ambassador mentioned you didn't have any money. You know when Shultz was here he gave me a dollar and countersigned it. He said it was guaranteed. I have it.
K: I need protocol money for some Colts I am getting from the General Secretary.
B: But I can lend you some money for that.
B: I have such a good relationship with you I can give you money on credit. Our currency is indeed very stable. You are right about that.
K: When I came to Washington in 1969 they had a financial problem, and I attended a meeting at Treasury. I said why don't you devalue the currency and they said it was technically impossible and morally unjust to devalue. Since then we have gone through a second and third devaluation.
B: I have one ruble, 3 rubles and 5 rubles ... I will sign it, give you a guarantee.
Dobrynin: You know in his country 3 rubles is not so good ... 3 dollar bill. B: It will be a good souvenir.
B: It is a very sturdy car, drives easy, reminds me of your former Packard. Kind of a Russian version of your old American Packard. At the time when the Packard was new, in those days, our leaders, Stalin, Molotov, others, always drove in Packards.
That's in addition to the 5 rubles, to help him out.
B: There is a difference. It had a narrower front. This is wider. The track is wider, achieves greater stability, center of gravity very smoothly. It is a strongly run car, takes a bad road well.
K: Is it easy to drive?
B: Much better than the other car we use ... but at 120 it starts vibrating
K: Coming to the Kremlin this morning my car started vibrating at 250.
B: A few days ago I arrived here on time and we drove 140 kilometers an hour, and I was sitting in the car as if sitting at my desk.
K: I made it from the guest house this morning in 3 and a half minutes. A new world record. B: Years ago I had to travel from where you are staying now. I had
I 5 minutes for an important meeting. From my porch it took me exactly 5 minutes, to drive to the Kremlin—and without prior notice—no advance notice.
K: The Secret Service won't let me drive. I had a Mercedes.
I told the President it was unkind to make me deal with Viet Nam and Israel in one year.
B: It certainly is a very harsh treatment of one's assistant. But he is easier on you than I am on my assistants. You remember I even broke my principal assistant's arm. Remember, he was working so hard, he looked like a victim of World War II. But he is much better since. Let's take a little break so we can consult.
(There was then a half-hour break during which both sides consulted and there was also some small talk about the White House Situation Room, the Dobrynin-Kissinger relationship, the presence at the meeting of Kuznetsov, Senator Fulbright and other matters.)
B: So, I would like to submit the following version for point one. “The Security Council calls upon all parties to the present fighting" and then deleting the words “including those who are not directly involved in the area of combat." The rest stays as it is, “terminate all activity in the positions now occupied." If we start making reference to others we would have to mention volunteers fighting in Israel. We are talking about states, not all parties to the fighting, not whatever anybody else does really to assist those fighting. In Viet Nam, when other parties were fighting, Australia for instance, we didn't make any reference to them. A situation could arise where American volunteers were fighting on the side of Israel ... we are not interested in referring to them. We have the Security Council calling on states, which can be understood by anybody, the Russians or the United States. Quite frankly, we don't think what we are suggesting would be harmful to what we want to achieve, ceasing all hostilities. Surely countries like Algeria and Libya can do nothing if the warring parties bring about a cease fire. I don't see it detrimental if we leave the text as it is and call upon all parties to cease all fighting and terminate hostilities.
K: Mr. General Secretary, I understand what you are saying. The phrase you have now now added would, in your judgment, include all countries which have units, even though not specifically mentioned.
B: We are duty bound to say this to everybody concerned.