office in which such a matter had occurred, without the benefit of a report from the committee who had investigated the subject, to enable them to shape the bill for the better prevention of similar occurrences in future.

Mr. Bankes said, that in respect to the accounts of Mr. Villiers and his office, the subject had been for a considerable time under the consideration of the finance committee, who, he trusted, would ere long be enabled to make some specific report upon that subject; and as to the manner in which this defalcation had occurred, the committee had traced it, like many others, to the very defective manner in which accounts were passed by those whose duty it was to audit them; and more especially in the navy department. The subject was found extremely complex: and the committee therefore chose rather to forgo the commendation of an expeditious report, in order to a more deliberate and correct investigation; and although no exertion was omitted on their parts to expedite the business, still he could not flatter the house with hopes of a full report upon this subject very speedily. The leading cause of this and a similar defalcation not having been sooner found out and checked, was, that those whose duty it was to pass the accounts, contented themselves merely with comparing vouchers with the sums charged as expenditure, without looking at all to the receipts in the hands of the officer, and the interest thereon. The committee, he said, would be ready to afford the house every information which reached their knowledge, to aid its proceedings upon any point where such information should become necessary; and for this purpose he

had come down to the house, pre. pared with some extracts from the minutes of the committee, for the information of the honourable gentleman, understanding that his bill was to proceed that day. He thought, however, that it would be expedient to postpone the further proceeding on the bill for some days, as it was not unlikely that the committee might ultimately feel it their duty to recommend the abolition of the office of paymaster of marines altogether, as unneces sary, because he was only an intermediate person between the treasurer of the navy, who acted as its banker, and the deputy paymaster of marines, who issued the pay. Although the saving upon the individual office would not be very considerable, yet, as part of a system of employments which appeared unnecessary, it seemed to the committee, in their present view of the subject, that it ought to be abolished. For the reasons he had already stated in the mode of passing accounts, without adverting to the receipts in the hands of public officers, as well as their disbursements, the state of balances was of course falsely stated; and to rectify this was a principal object. The deficit in the account of Mr. Villiers reached its amount so long since as 1804. But there were many documents since then necessary to the information of the com mittee, which they had not as yet been able to obtain, and without which they could not come to any accurate conclusion. Such, however, had been the mode of passing accounts, strange as it might seem; and such was the cause of the deficits so long undiscovered.

The chancellor of the exchequer had no objection to postpone the committee on the bill, or any dis

cussion

cussion that might be necessary, to a more distant day; but he hoped there would be no objection now to the second reading. He was sure it must be satisfactory to all parts of the house to see a termination to such practices in public departments, than which nothing could be more disgusting or more disgraceful. The bill was finally passed.

March 14. Mr. Ashley Cooper, without any prefatory observations, stated to the committee (the house having gone into the committee of supply), that the total saving on the ordnance estimates for this year amounted to 1,238,0007.;--under the head of ordinaries, there would be found to be an excess for this year, amounting to 7,000; but, under the head of extraordinaries, there would be found to be a diminution of charge, amounting to 1,140,000l.; and, under the head of unprovided, there would appear a diminution of 352,2097.:-so that the total saving under these two heads of extraordinaries and unprovided, was a diminution of expense amounting to 1,492,2097.:—and the total sum he meant now to call upon the committee to vote for the ordnance services of the current year, for the united kingdom, amounted to 3,819,4661. The save ing under the head of extraordinaries arose from various causes. There was a deduction from the annual charge of the foreign service, of no less a sum than 200,0007. There was also a saving in works and repairs of 260,0007. There was a further saving of 60,0001. by the reduction of draught horses; and by the diminution of the number of depôts, there was an additional saving of 100,000l. With respect to the estimates for the ordnance in Ireland, there would

be found generally to be a saving of 123,000l. and under the head of new works, would be found a further saving of 17,000. He felt it unnecessary to trouble the house with any further detail, but would be ready to give gentlemen every satisfactory explanation that it was within his power to give on any points upon which it might be deemed necessary. The honourable gentleman then concluded with moving, That it is the opinion of the committee, that a sum not exceeding 3,819,4661. be granted to his majesty towards defraying the ordnance estimates for the current year.

Mr. Calcraft said, he was not surprised that the honourable gentleman had been so brief upon the subject: but he (Mr. Calcraft) must request the patience of the house, while he deviated from the example which had been given, and went a little more into detail. He found, in looking over the papers which he held in his hand, a reduction of 100,000/. from the last year's expense, and so far as such a reduction could be proved to be real, he was willing to allow the honourable gentleman due praise. This reduction had been in saltpetre, and those charges which were termed unprovided, a phrase equivalent to extraordinaries in the common accounts of the army; but when he looked into those parts of the statement where extravagance was most unjustifiable and unserviceable, he found the old spirit still alive, and as vigorous as ever: he found charged in 1809, 4,5861, for a house for the secretary in Pallmall; he next found for building, for a similar purpose, 8,4067, which, with a nondescript charge which he could not distinctly trace at that time, amounted to 11,000. The

expenditure in the ordance office itself was intolerable; summed up, it was not less than $5,000! It night be alleged that part of this expense had been sanctioned by himself (Mr. Calcraft) and his col. leagues, while in office; but the contract for the house in Pall-mall had been made before they could have any influence over it. As it was, they tried to get rid of it, to throw it off the hands of the nation, to exchange, to sell it; and, in the failure of all, were forced to perform the contract; but improve ments and embellishments were going on, which would make the cost of that onerous fabric at least 50,000. But the expense of the establishment did not halt here; a miserable house in Pall-mall was bought up at the sporting price of 7,1637. for an engineer officer; another for the inspector-general was purchased at a splendid price in that same most expensive part of the

town.

He must now advert to an expenditure which it might seem invidious to touch upon; he meant the pay of the superannuated men, and the pensions of widows and officers; but under this title, interesting as it must be to the feelings of the house, a large system of peculation was easily concealed; it contained all the private pensions of the ordnance, and even in the last year had increased by 6,5997. He found a charge for the Cinque Ports; he requested to know if the fortifications at Dover were completed. He found in the estimates the Chatham head diminished, but still the extravagance there had been enormous. He had but to instance the artillery barracks: those buildings contained about 1,000 men, with a few horses, and some sheds for carriages; yet the expense of the work had been

150,000. So much for the Head of Chatham-(laugh.) He spoke from memory, but the work was altogether on the most wastefulplan. He saw in those barracks windows as showy and handsome as any in London, and many of them plate glass; and what was still more preposterous, this handsome showy lofty building was in the very lines; the sills of the doors were above the crown of the walls; and in case of an attack from the enemy (which God forbid he should ever see!) the first hope of the soldiers would be to see it in ruins, unless they were satisfied to be crushed by the heaps of the structure that would be flying about them. He found a sum of 19,000!. in the account, towards the building of an artillery hospital; no estimate was made of the probable expense, which might be extended to any sum before this tedious work was completed. There was next 5,0007. for a powder magazine at Dorchester, but without any purpose or designation stated for it. He wished to be informed, whether it was to treasure up the military stores of the town, or to receive the spare powder of the entire district? He hoped that, whether or not, it would be kept at a safe distance from the town; but 5,000/ was a sum undeniably too large for so idle a purpose. He next found under one sweeping head, for building and taking land at Woolwich, 134,000l. (Hear!) This charge first met the eye in the modest form of 78,6391., and was gradually inflated up to the aggregate which he stated. The minor abuses there, were of the same rank with those which had been noticed at Chatham. Officers were known to make almost a property of the horses provided for the service; and, while

they

they had them in actual employ drawing their coaches and curri cles, refused to pay the tax demanded by the commissioners,-on the plea that they were the king's horses. The commissioners, however, resisted the plea, and would allow no more than a single horse, On a late inquiry, it was found that an officer had in his service no less than eight or ten soldiers, as the regular attendants of his house, cooks, butlers, &c. and four horses, He adduced many other abuses of the same kind accusing the go vernment of most culpable extra

vagance.

Mr. Wardle rose, not for the purpose of canvassing each individual estimate, but of remarking on the entire mass as it stood before him. He confessed he had some hope that a retrenchment would have taken place, from the declara tion of an honourable member opposite, last session, that there would be a saving this year of a million and a half. He went through a va, riety of particulars in proof of the great extravagance allowed in the ordnance office, calling for explana, tions. At Waltham Abbey, he said, the sum of 104,0537. was estimated for powder-mills for four years. Now he could by no means see the necessity of any such expense. The French and Germans, it was well known, used barns or any other temporary building for the manufacture of powder, and every body knew what an effectual use was made of it. He admitted, indeed, that he had heard the foreign powder was not so good as ours. (Hear! hear!) In those estimates it was the custom to vote large sums under the head of different buildings; and yet a sweeping charge was made for these afterwards, as for the "defence of

the country." (Hear! hear!) Va. rious charges were included under this head, which had been made before under the head of depôts, fortifications, &c. &c. For four years indeed, commencing at 1807, 4,193,000, had been voted for buildings, repairs, &c. ("Ammunition included," from the ministerial bench.) No, said Mr. Wardle, for buildings and depôts: next year, it would be no doubt in the same proportion. As to the minuteness of the estimates, it signified very little whether they were minute or not, as any mistake might easily be obviated, so long as the head of "unprovided for" was allowed to continue. He hoped these were the last estimates in which such a head would be allowed to be brought before the house; and he hoped also, that an account of the expenditure of every sum voted at the estimates would hereafter be produced. He was sure there could be no difficulty in the computation, as it would be much easier to give an account of how the money had been expended, than to make out an abstruse estimate in the beginning.

Mr. A. Cooper said, that the house were not to understand by the term "unprovided for," that there was to be no account given. When the honourable gentleman complained of the expense of the powder-mills at Waltham Abbey, he should have recollected the period of the American war, when government powder was proverbially bad. Bad as it was, we were then entirely dependent for a supply upon the merchants. Even at the time of lord Nelson's celebrated victory, the stock of gunpowder was so small, that the ordnance could have hardly issued enough for another battle of the same sort,

and

and were absolutely obliged for a time to suspend their issues, in the expectation of a scarcity. This was a fact, which it would have been dangerous to the public service to have been stated at that time; but the evil was now, in a great measure, corrected. The honourable gentleman had spoken of the practice of the French to make the powder in barns. If he would take the trouble to examine the works at Waltham-Abbey, he would find that we also use, for that purpose, many buildings that resemble

barns. Under the general head of "the defence of the country," was included the expense of building batteries and Martello towers along the coast. And as to the sum voted for building and repairing depôts, it had lately been judged necessary to have a large quantity of artillery and ammunition in depôt, to guard against invasion or unforeseen contingency.

Several other gentlemen spoke for and against the motion, which was afterwards carried without a division.

MARCH ARCH 2. Mr. Whitbread, in pursuance of previous notice, rose, and spoke to the following effect: "Mr. speaker, but se"Mr. speaker, but seven days have elapsed since I felt it to be my duty to submit to the consideration of this house a certain proposition, founded upon a strong and justifiable suspicion, that a conduct most unconstitutional and improper had been pursued by a noble lord, at this moment a member of the king's cabinet, and the late commander-in-chief of the expedition to the Scheldt. I then contended, that it was not alone the right, but that it became the incumbent duty, of this house to call for all documents and papers touching the inquiry in which it was

engaged, which it had reason to believe were in the possession of the crown, and most particularly if they had been communicated in a way most likely to excite its constitutional vigilance and jealousy. I had the proud satisfaction to find, that upon that occasion my efforts were successful. For to the immortal honour of this house let it be spoken, that to the address which it then agreed to have conveyed to the crown, an answer has been since returned, fully justifying the course it then found it necessary to adopt, and too strongly illustrating the suspicion it then entertained. I say that my efforts were successful in the fullest extent of the expression; for most sincerely do I

con