Mr. GOULDING. Suppose the yarn was put upon the large end, the driving end of the evening cylinder, -to make 36 yarn by the draught, what yarn will it make on the small end?

Mr. DRAPER. I said we made a variation in the speed at the two extremes of about eight per cent. Now, eight per cent would be one-twelfth part of 36, without splitting hairs; and that would make three numbers of 36, one and a half on each side of the centre.

Mr. GOULDING. I simply recognize Mr. Draper's disinterestedness in introducing these new things, and I think that a vote could be taken of these manufacturers here to-day that Mr. Draper has done us great benefit in a good many ways; but I have failed to recognize the value of this evener in making filling. I had two of the frames in the Androscoggin Mills, and ran them for six months, and experimented on them in various ways. Among the things we did do with the evener was, to run the frames a while with the belt at one end of the evener, and sized the yarn; and then on the other end we found four numbers. We took the space that the band travelled over on the cylinder where the band is arranged to run, and between those extremes we found four numbers difference. Now, it may be necessary to make spinning-yarn to that extent uneven to make a bobbin; but I want to suggest to Mr. Draper here, while the subject is up, that I hope he will spend another twenty thousand dollars in getting at some means to make perfect yarn before he ends his work.

Mr. DRAPER. I will be bound to make more perfect yarn than you can on any machine you have got. [Laughter and applause.] The father of Mr. Kilburn who presides here today told me that somebody came to him with this idea of uneven yarn; and he said, "Let us find out about this." He said he sent for Mr., and had brought in a certain quantity of yarn made from mules and some made from frames. Said he, "I took the yarn, and brought it out; and the gentleman who was talking with me pointed out a small place on the frameyarn, and I pointed out a smaller place on the mule-yarn. Then he pointed out a large place on the frame-yarn, and I pointed out a larger place on the mule-yarn;" and I believe that is true.

Mr. GOULDING. Undoubtedly you will be able to find these places on any yarn. That is the defect of the spinning. If the

gentleman introduces the system here this morning, that the extra draught on the bobbin when spinning has a tendency to even the yarn, to make evener and better yarn, or to take uneven yarn and make it even, we have got a new thing to talk about; and I would like to have him illustrate further, if he can make even yarn out of uneven yarn.

Mr. DRAPER. There is one other thing about it that is material, and I think the critical gentleman will agree with me, and that is this, that we can make yarn of evener twist, taking a given length of six inches, divided up into inches, on the frame, than it is possible to make on mules, when he admits you have larger places on all yarn, one place larger than another. We were told we could not make cotton-flannel on this frame; that we could not spin it so it could be carded. Well, the thing has been tried; and there is a good deal of cotton being made. The Nashua Manufacturing Company have made some on this frame, and finished it; and they said it was so much better that every one could pick it out. That set me to thinking how could it be any better. Well, it is very easy when you consider. Now, you draw out a string here with a mule sixty inches long, and you twist it; and some places are bigger than others. What is the result? Why, your twist runs into the small places until it will not take any more; and it leaves the large places with very little, or none. On the small places you have got sixty inches, wich take up all the surplus. Now, when you come to the ring-frame, you have not more than six inches exposed on the point of the bobbin: it cannot run any surplus beyond that. Now, I would like to have the gentleman say whether it is not an advantage. You take a black roving and white one and put them together, and see where your twist runs, and see if it is not an important matter to get an even twist. If he can, from his own experience, demonstrate that is not the case, I would like to hear from him.

Mr. GOULDING. I do not wish to continue this discussion; but, for fear that I may be misunderstood, I will say at once that I am in favor of spinning filling on frames. I would not put in mules, nor recommend them to anybody else. Our experience with frames satisfies us that they give very much better yarn, weave better, and give better cloth, and every thing of that kind: but I do say, in confirmation of what we have heard, that we had one or two Fales & Jenks' frames made

with the eveners; but we could not successfully use the eveners; and Mr. Draper's man came there, and said we did not know any thing about it; and we were willing to plead guilty to that: but we kept on trying; and his man fixed it, and left us. Still, we could not succeed in spinning No. 28 and 36 filling with the evener; and when we stopped the evener, and put the belt in one place, and kept it there, we succeeded splendidly in making filling to our entire satisfaction. [Applause.]

Mr. GREENE. Every one conversant with ring-frame spinning by the old-fashioned mode knows that the yarn is slacker twisted, and finest when the yarn is on the bare bobbin.

Mr. GOULDING. I would not either deny it or admit it. I do not know. I would take your word for it.

Mr. GREENE. No one can deny it, because there is less twist and more draught. Now comes the question whether it had not better be a little coarser where the greatest strain is going to be on it, in order to run it better? If Mr. Draper has too much variation, perhaps he had better change it; but certainly that evener can be fixed so as to make the yarn evener than you can without it.

Mr. GOULDING. That was not our experience.

[At this point, Mr. Greene and Mr. Barrows, and one or two others, engaged in an informal, and, to the stenographer, an inaudible, conversation on the subject under discussion.]

Mr. GARSED. Mr. Chairman, many years ago, say, at least, fifteen, we spun for many months Canton flannel filling No. 10, with seven and a half turns of twist, on the ordinary ringframe, with one and nine-sixteenths rings; and quite recently, I should say within three years, probably, the question came from New England to the Bridesburg Manufacturing Company, "Can you make Canton flannel filling on a ring-frame?" They applied to me. I replied, "Yes," and made quite a number of pounds of Canton flannel filling of No. 10, with seven and a half turns of twist, on the ordinary ring-frame, with a positivelydriven bobbin. Some years ago, probably three or four, we had an application from Fall River to spin filling for print cloths; No. 30, I believe. The Bridesburg Company again applied to us. I requested them to send from Fall River some of their own roving, from what mill I do not remember now; and we spun that into thirty-threes (I am speaking from memory), I think sixteen and a half turns per inch. At all events, it

was half a turn per inch less than the mule-yarn. That was on an ordinary ring-frame, without any embellishment or any alteration, other than a plain spindle, positively-driven bobbin, and six-inch traverse. Now, I would like to ask Col. Barrows, — because I was at the Willimantic Company's mill some years ago, and saw them spin No. 60 on an inch and a half ring, before the modern practice of ring-frame spinning; and I am confident it was prior to any of the modern spindles, the Sawyer, Rabbeth, my own, or any others, I would like to ask how much further they have gone since, in spinning fine yarn on ring-frames?

Mr. BARROWS. I think the Willimantic Company have spun numbers from 45 to 60 on the old ring-frame. They were spinning before I began with the company, and that is seven years ago. But I am quite confident that they spun on the frame before the Sawyer spindle was known; and I am positive that they spun a number of years after the Sawyer spindle was known, on that frame. We have since taken all the old spindles out, and put in either the Sawyer or the Rabbeth in our new mill. We regularly spin on the Rabbeth spindle from No. 80 to 140. Mr. Draper is very persistent; and it is possible we have some frames with eveners on, I am not sure. He knows better than I do about it.

Mr. DRAPER. I was not aware that the Willimantic Company had it on. I do not think you have. I do not think you have. Your spinningis different from the filling, at any rate.

warp

Mr. BARROWS. We make a constant practice of spinning 120 on the Rabbeth spindle. In our new mills there are no mules whatever.

The PRESIDENT. What is the size of the ring you use?
Mr. BARROWs. An inch and a quarter.

The PRESIDENT. What is the size of the barrel of the bobbin?

Mr. BARROWS. I cannot tell you, sir. We have spun No. 350 on a ring-spindle and specially-made bobbin, for the Atlanta Cotton Exposition; and we have spun some still finer than that, but not a full bobbin: 350 is the finest full bobbin we have made.

Mr. DRAPER. I want to ask one question. Is there any gentleman here that makes a single thread of yarn that would reach from one end of this room to the other (about seventy

five or eighty feet), that does not vary more than four per cent in its size in some places from others, in that length? If there is such yarn made, I would go a thousand miles to see it.

Mr. GARSED. I only rise, Mr. Chairman, so as not to be misunderstood as to the desirability of an evening motion for a ring-frame. In England, I think as early as 1852, probably in 1854, Messrs. Higgins spun No. 50's on a flyer-throstle arranged with an evening motion similar to the English fly-frame; and I think the frame ran for forty-eight hours and never broke a thread; although I am speaking from memory. That shows how desirable it would be to have just what my friend Draper is trying to get at. The reason it was not carried out is the difficulty of applying a differential motion to all the spindles of the spinning-frame. So you see it is important to get this machine, but we make out pretty well without it. If the Willimantic Company can spin, as has been said, 60 on the oldfashioned frame satisfactorily, -and I think their thread stands pretty well in the market, it seems to me we can make a thread good enough without the differential motion.

Mr. DRAPER. One single word. The Willimantic people spin on the barrel of the bobbin, that is five-eighths of an inch in diameter, or more; and we have one that is only a quarter of an inch in diameter.

Mr. ATKINSON. I did not intend to say a word; but the experience thus far given has related to medium yarn, and to bleached cotton or thread. Many years ago, in one of the factories of which I was treasurer, we needed additional filling for brown goods, I think No. 22 filling, — 22 or 26. We put in the common Saco Water Power Company's ring-frame, and made the filling upon that. The goods were carefully kept separate for a while until it was determined that there was no practical difference in the market value, and since then they have been merged with the regular goods for sale in the brown. I then came to the conclusion, which others seemed to be reaching, that the mule was dying a slow death for all numbers below 30's and perhaps 40's. I am confirmed to-day in that conviction of many years since. I knew of another case about that time where a contract had been made for mules on very coarse goods. A strike among the mule-spinners warned the treasurer to give up the mules, and pay a forfeit on his mule contract. He did so, and substituted the common ring-frame, and has been