duct of the board of controul; they must be decided on their own merits, and the opinion of individuals had nothing to do with the general view of the affairs of India. Nothing in the refusal of laying this dispatch before parliament, would have the tendency of rendering the India board less amenable to parliament than they would be if the document was before the house. A great part of the speech of the noble lord went to impeach the conduct of the board of controul, and to impeach the system of general policy acted upon in India; but if he had any disposition to censure that board, he apprehended the noble lord would find some difficulty in getting the support of the house, but the non-compliauce with this motion would be no obstacle to him in that pursuit. The truth was, that although he was aware that considerable difficulties attached to the affairs of this country in India, they were not insuperable, neither was he disposed to take the same gloomy view of them that some did. Certainly the expenditure was very heavy at present, but that arose from the state of war in which it was engaged, and which he hoped would be of short duration; he was

ments were brought altogether under the contemplation of parliament, and the whole made properly public; it would be improper to make this document so without other documents before that house. He knew it had been laid on the table of the India house, and somehow or other had found its way in print; but that was no rule for the house of commons. Its proceedings should be founded on regularity. He was persuaded that those who laid the dispatch in question on the table of the India house, considered it as a confidential document and fit to be produced, but he wished it had not found its way before the public, unless it had been accompanied by others, and the explanations of the reasons of the court of directors for their opinions should have appeared; without all which it was impossible for those who perused the document to understand it. He did not find it difficult to decide whether the affairs of Oude were properly subject to the board of controul, or to the court of directors, but these were points not now before the house. He concurred entirely with the opinion of the right hon. secretary, who had so ably spoken on this occasion, in the view he had taken of it. If the transac-confident we should be able to struggle tions of Oude were improper, the board of with those difficulties and to surmount commissioners had made themselves par- them, and although gentlemen appeared to ties to that act, by the approbation they differ so much, yet he believed that on a gave of the conduct, and therefore a com- close view of our condition in India, and a plaint ought long ago to have been made due consideration of all our circumstanagainst them, but this was not the proper ces, without which it would be impossible course to take for that purpose. This case to form a correct opinion, the points of difhad been stated to be similar to a case of ference would not ultimately be so many a document being called for, and produced as some gentlemen at present apprehended. on the subject of the trial of Mr. Has-There was one general observation to be tings. But a distinction was to be taken made on this subject, and that was, that between the two cases; that was an act in much of the conduct of the marquis of itself legal, being a dispatch from govern- Wellesley, which some gentlemen appeared ment, and transmitted to India, and it be- disposed to censure, was conduct in direct came necessary to lay it before parliament obedience to the direction of the legisin order to be decided upon; that which lature itself; so that, if these measures were was now called for was only the opinion wrong, no complaint should be made of a number of individuals, and, whatever against any power except that of the legis weight that opinion might have, the house lature. As to the general merits of the would form its own upon the facts, and not transaction to which the document now upon the opinion of others, as the right called for referred, opportunities would be hon. secretary had justly stated; and, afforded of discussing them in due season, therefore, there was no ground laid for and that discussion would embrace many bringing this dispatch before the house. points besides those to which that dispatch In saying this, he was not proposing to de-related, and which were not now under the lay the remedy if there was any miscon- view of the house, without which the discusduct in the affairs of India; for the pro-sion must be partial; all which defects might priety or impropriety of the transactions be supplied hereafter by a full discussion of Oude did not decide the general merits of all the affairs of India, and nothing short of the affairs of India, or of the con- of it could answer any good purpose.

Mr. Paull said a few words expressive of] could not be more properly produced at his determination to lay before the house another time. The difficulties ministers to-morrow, criminating charges against the had to contend with at present, were so marquis of Wellesley; and also of his sur- great, that he was sorry to see their attenprise that Mr. Fox should not have sup- tion distracted by any Indian questions. ported the motion of the noble lord to- When a virtual censure had been passed night, instead of moving the previous ques-on lord Wellesley's administration, by sendtion upon it.

ing out the late noble governor, whom all lamented, to establish a contrary system; and when a noble lord, in whom there was every reason to confide, was about to be sent out to confirm the amended system, he thought the proposed investigation unnecessary and unwise. When investigation was once entered upon, there would be no end to it. There must be a general revisal. He was astonished that 29 out of 30 directors, had sat still when their opinions were so broadly departed from; that they submitted to sign a garbled and mu

they remained a whole year without coming to the house to remonstrate, under an insult that must have been most galling to their feelings.

Lord H. Petty was desirous of explaining the reason for his vote on this occasion, which should be for the previous question moved by his right hon. friend. With his noble friend who opened this debate, he had the happiness to concur on general and great constitutional principles; and he trusted he should long have that happiness uninterrupted by casual differences upon minor points. He thought it important to the public, that the paper now called for should, at some time or other, be introduced, and in voting for the previous ques-tilated abstract of that opinion, and that tion he should be sorry that any one should conceive him to alter his opinion on the subject of the publicity of all sorts of necessary documents for the information of the house. All he conceived to be the ef- Dr. Laurence strenuously supported the fect of the previous question was this, that original motion for the production of the the production of the paper moved for at dispatch in question, as a necessary piece this particular moment should be suspen- of information. He did not think it wise to ded until the accusation against the noble depend much on the personal character and marquis should be disposed of one way or qualities of individuals in the conduct of the other, that accusation being of a cri- public affairs, although he had no excepminating nature, and the authority of this tions to take to those who had been allu paper could not be made use of in the ded to on this occasion. It was childish house in voting on that accusation. This to say abuses should be suffered to go on paper contained the opinion of certain in- because enquiry was inconvenient. To abdividuals on the conduct of that noble lord, stain from the production of a paper of the and was a necessary piece of information most useful general nature, because part of for the house some time or other; but not the information it contained might be apso at present, for it was an authority which plied to a particular question, he looked it would be unjust for the house to weigh upon as foolish and absurd. The questions when considering the conduct of the no- on the marquis Wellesley's conduct were ble marquis. The house would form its so plain and direct, that they could be eajudgment of that noble marquis from his sily decided upon, without having recourse actions, and not from the opinion of others. to collateral or remote matter, which noAlthough the house might hereafter pos-body would think of connecting with them. sess itself of the information which the pa- Mr. Grant (late chairman of the India per contained, the house, in voting for the previous question now, only suspended the production of the paper until the pending accusation against the noble marquis should be disposed of one way or other, and then the paper might very properly be called for in order to the general discussion of India affairs.

Mr. W. Smith said, he had so great a sense of the importance of the paper, that he would vote for the production of it. even under the present circumstances, if i

Company) said, that whatever his opinion might be of the system of measures pursued in India, in the latter years of lord Wellesley's administration, as indeed of many of those measures he could not help thinking very unfavourably, yet he was no way concerned in bringing forward the enquiries respecting them, which an hon. member (Mr. Paull) had agitated in that house. It was not the practice of the court of directors, to bring impeachments before parliament. They were not represented in

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, April 22.

West-India commodities would be considerably checked if the American intercourse was not permitted. The conduct pursued by [MINUTES.] The West-India Governors the right hon. gent. (Mr. Rose) reminded Indemnity bill was read a 3d time and pas him of other measures adopted by him to sed.-On the motion of lord Auckland, the prejudice of the West-India planters, the order for taking the report of the In when he acted under the late chancellor of peachment Proceedings Committee intoconthe exchequer. They gave unlimited encou-sideration to-morrow, was discharged, and ragement to the importation of brandy, and the report was ordered to be referred to the the consequence was that the poor West- said committee for revision, &c.-Earl India planters could hardly find a market Stanhope moved, that the order for comfor their rum. The measure now about mitting the bill for the more effectually Dis to be adopted by government would have covering of Truth from Witnesses, should be a most beneficial effect, and it met with his further postponed till the 19th of May, decided approbation. which was ordered accordingly.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, April 22.

Sir W. Young approved of the measure about to be adopted by ministers; as did also Mr. Barham, who said that so great was the scarcity of shipping to carry away the [MINUTES.] The hon. Henry Erskine produce of the plantations, that he had (lord advocate of Scotland) and Mr. Wick200 hogsheads of rum lying at one time ham took the oaths and their seats.-Mr. for 6 months, without any means of send-Whitbread moved, that a committee be ing them away. As to British ships car-appointed to view the court erected in rying on the trade to the colonies which Westminster-hall for the trial of lord Vis the Americans did, none would be found . to do it.

Mr. Rose said, that the trade was sufficiently profitable to afford a temptation to our merchants to carry it on.-The motions were then agreed to,

[SLAVE IMPORTATION BILL] On the order for going into a committee on the Slave Importation bill,

suspended, should be read by the clerk, which was agreed to; and the order being then read, he moved that the said original order be discharged, which was carried accordingly.-The order of the day being read for taking into consideration his ma jesty's message, Mr. Fox observed, that as it would be more convenient for the members to take the message into consideration to-morrow, he should move, that the said order be discharged, which was agreed to. He then moved, that it be taken into consideration to-morrow. Ordered.

count Melville, and to report what accommodation and convenience had been made for the members of the house when present at the said trial, and that the managers for conducting the impeachment should be the said committee; which motions were agreed to.-He moved also, that the or der be read from the journals, made on the 13th July, 1805, for the attorney-general to Mr. Rose said, it was the duty of the institute a prosecution against lord Melhouse seriously to consider how the pas-ville and Mr. Trotter, and which was since sing of such an act as this might affect the trade and manufactures of the country. On that very evening a message had been brought down from his majesty, with an account of acts of hostility practised against this country by Prussia, and he hoped there would be but one opinion in that house, and in the country, as to the course we ought to pursue on, such an occasion. The house must be aware that the exclusion of our vessels from Prussiau ports would materially affect the export of our manufactures, and on that account he did not wish to see any measure adopted which [VOLUNTEER ESTABLISHMENT.] Mr. should serve to increase that evil. If the Perceval, in rising to move for the paper, of trade carried on to the coast of Africa was which he had given notice, thought it neces diminished, not only would the sale of sary to state the reasons which induced him British commodities be diminished, but to submit such a motion, and the object the trade itself would be taken up by the which he had in view. This paper, he was Americans; and on the score of humanity, ready distinctly and clearly to say, was it was much better it should be carried on meant to apply to that part of the right by this country, on account of the supe-hon, secretary's argument upon which he rior good treatment which slaves met seemed so much to rely in the discussion with in British ships.-The bill was then of a former evening, and which in reality committed. formed, in that right hon.gent.'s own judg

ment, the strongest reason to justify his any diminution of the number or efficiency extraordinary and exceptionable propo- of the volunteers. This would appear when sition respecting the volunteers. The the paper, for which he meant to move, character of extraordinary and exceptiona- should be produced, and he was, of course, ble he did not, of course, mean to apply as a friend to the volunteer system, desito the whole of the right hon. gent.'s plan. rous that it should be laid before the house. But with regard to the volunteers, he had He should be also desirous to have an esti no difficulty in pronouncing it totally ob- mate brought forward of the expence likely jectionable, as it had a tendency not merely to arise from the compulsory training of to the immediate reduction, but at no dis- the people. If such an estimate could not tant day, in all probability, to the complete now be obtained, he should of course, extinction of that useful body. The con- defer any application for it. But, he would sequence of the right hon. gent.'s arrange- feel much satisfaction if it could be produ ment it could not be difficult to anticipate. ced, because parliament and the country It obviously must lead to one or other of would then have an opportunity of comthese effects: either to drive 300,000 able, paring at once the expence, and the servieffective, and ardent men, to lay down ces also, that were to be looked for from their arms altogether, and quit the service the two systems, and of examining their in disgust, or, if not, to keep them in at comparative value. If the expence of the least a state of comparatively less utility two should prove to be equal, it would be to the country. For what was proposed for the house to consider, whether the that must not operate to degrade the vo- proposed change should take place? Whelunteers in their own opinion, and in that ther Englishmen, who voluntarily stood of the country also? Was it not, in fact, forward in the hour of peril, should be dismeant to make the volunteer corps a stig-banded, to make room for a reluctant, conmatized asylum from the operation of the strained levy? It was the first time that compulsory levy? Could any man doubt such a proposition had been made in this the justice of this statement who had at- country, and it required but a little consitended to the right hon. gent. on a former deration indeed, to estimate the difference evening, or who recollected the uniform between the two kinds of service. Sure he tenor of his remarks upon the volunteer was, that parliament could hardly be perinstitution? The right hon. gent. appeared to suaded to adopt a measure of forcibly trainrest a good deal of his hostility to this insti-ing, particularly where they felt it to be tution on the expence which it occasioned, unnecessary, and if they felt it to be unneand therefore it was extremely desirable cessary, they must feel it to be unconstithat the house should be informed of the tutional. For whatever he might think of real amount of that expence, distinguish-the right of the state to call upon the poing the different heads of expenditure. pulation of the country to arm in its de- • When this account should be laid on the fence; however he might conceive the table, it would be seen what part of the prerogative of the crown entitled to sumexpence complained of, could be discon-mon the whole people together, and he tinued; and gentlemen would have, an remembered to have carried that doctrine opportunity of comparing the amount of the sum to be laid out with the value of the service. It would be also seen what proportion the amount of this expenditure had to the produce of the income tax, to which the right hon. secretary alluded. No doubt, the expence hitherto incurred by the volunteers was considerable, but he had no difficulty in saying that a great part of that expence was such as could not recur again, and therefore could form no reason at present in support of a measure that was calculated to disband a considerable part of that body, and to disgust the whole. There were, in fact, many heads of service upon which the expence might be saved altogether, without at all working

further than the right hon. gent., still he always felt the right and exercise of the prerogative to depend on the pressure of the necessity. But he could not imagine the degree or nature of the necessity, which could justify the compulsory levy of 200,000 men, in preference to the employment of 300,000 able, well-disciplined volunteers. Whether such a measure should be taken, it would be for parliament to determine; but, in order that it should be enabled to determine justly, he thought the fullest enquiry should be made. Having said so much as to the object of his motion, the hon. gent. proceeded to comment on some late proceedings out of doors upon this, subject. The volunteers formed, he

the service of the volunteers of Great Britain, from the commencement of the present war to the latest period at which the same could be made out, distinguishing each year,and also each head of service."

was well aware, rather a delicate question | profession; when told that it was de at present. Considerable agitation and grading to the army that they should be ferment prevailed abroad respecting it, and dressed in the same uniform with them; nothing could be farther from his wish, in that it was an affront to military officers, introducing this motion, than to increase that volunteer corps should have any thing in any degree a ferment of that nature, the like similar distinctions. That although existence of which every thinking man their want of discipline had been the genemust regret. It would, therefore, be a great ral complaint heretofore, the remedy now misconception of his object, to suppose proposed was to relax that discipline-it that by this motion he meant to encourage was no wonder if the zeal of the volunteers any disposition to discontent among the was in some degree damped, and their volunteers. He should most sincerely de- dispositions soured. But still they should precate any thing that could contribute to not suffer themselves to be agitated, but snah an effect. Indeed it was seriously to wait in respectful confidence the decision be deplored, that the volunteers, or any of the legislature. The hon. and learned other description of persons, should take gent. concluded with moving for "An acup any impression from the mere proposi-count of all sums issued and expended for tion of a measure in parliament, as to what parliament was likely to do. For just in the same degree that any such measure was unjust or unwise, or likely to press severely upon them, should any portion of the people feel that parliament would not Mr. Secretary For did not rise to object feel disposed to adopt it. The people should to the motion of the hon. gent., because, at least wait until the decision of parlia- without such a motion, it was intended by ment was known. And until that decision, his right hon. friend (Mr. Windham) to lay instead of apprehending evil, their presump- this document before the house. But the tion ought to be, that such a measure hon. gent.'s speech and his motion being would not be adopted. The character of far from the same thing, he must say, that parliament, and the just respect which the although he acquiesced in the one, be very people entertained for it, should naturally much objected to several parts of the other. incline the public mind to that presump-The hon. gent.'s observation, that the votion. To the volunteers he particularly ad-lunteers should, before they took a strong dressed these obvervations; and to indi-impression as to his right hon. friend's plan, cate a disposition different from that he wait the decision of parliament, was cerrecommended, would on their part, to say tainly unexceptionable; but he could not the least of it, be impolitic and unwise. help observing that that sentiment very ill For any indecorous conduct, at present consisted with other parts of the hon. gent.'s particularly, must be injurious to them-speech. When a person of understanding, selves and their advocates, by furnishing competent to conceive the proceedings of to their enemies the strongest arguments that house, was found to misrepresent against them. He felt, however, that it words which it was impossible to misconmust be confessed the disgust and discon-ceive, it was not difficult to infer his object. tent of the volunteers was, in a great measure, excusable. It was very natural for them to complain when they heard language used respecting them by a government composed, for the most part, of men who originally encouraged their formation, and who almost uniformly panegyrized their conduct. When they saw any part of such a government, instead of patronizing them, manifesting a wish to throw impediments and obstacles in their way, the same feelings which led the volunteers to quit their habits and employments to prepare for the field of war, must now dispose them to chagrin and disappointment. When they were held up as a disgrace to the military

Nothing could have been more explicit than the meaning of his right hon. friend. When he alluded to a relaxation of diseipline, he meant merely that the volunteers should only be seldomer called out to exercise, and that being obvious, it ought to have been beneath the hon. gent. to catch at words. Was it possible that the hon. gent. could be so mistaken as to understand that any intention existed of disbanding the vo lunteers? Sure he was, that if his right hon. friend entertained any such intention, he had concealed it from him. That his right hon. friend said any thing, on the day alluded to, to warrant such an inference, he most peremptorily and absolutely de