Mr. BORDEN. One point which I wish to draw out is the advisability of making a difference of one-quarter of an inch between the first and second Rolls. Assuming the cotton to be of a given length, we know practically what the distance should be between the Rollers. Should that distance be obtained by making one Roll larger than the other, or making the two Rolls of the same size? that is, I wish to know whether it is advisable to make the difference of one-quarter of an inch between the size of the Rollers, or to make the two Rolls of the same size—say, each Roll 14?

The PRESIDENT. It strikes me that the whole thing lies in a very small compass. We should be glad to hear Mr. Borden's views on that point.

Mr. BORDEN. There are other parties who have had more experience in that line, and I should not feel competent to instruct them.

The PRESIDENT. It was Mr. Borden's opinion that we are trying to get at. We get as much instruction from each one's illustration as it is worth. What I think very desirable is, that every gentleman may feel perfectly at liberty to express his opinion, without any fear of ridicule or of giving us too much information.

It seems to me the question which Mr. Borden has raised has never been very much considered except by machinists, and none too much by them. The practice has been to follow the model closely, as the Chinese are said to do. I will say also I think the advantages of making the front Roll larger than any of the others have already been alluded to. The front Rolls in a Drawing Frame are those which are the most heavily weighted, and run at the greatest velocity; and they wear the most rapidly for both reasons. The result of this is, that the larger the Roll the better it will work, for the reasons already given; that is, being larger it will carry the weight with less spring, and having a larger amount of surface presented, it wears less rapidly and heats less from the friction of the cotton; having a larger amount of surface to absorb and radiate heat. So far as I know, there are no other advantages; yet these are sufficient to induce the use of the largest practicable size.

Mr. DRAPER. If the front Roll, from its position, is most likely to lap up from another, all these things which you have

suggested are done, in a measure, to prevent its being lapped up. It will not lap on the second Roll once, where it would lap on the first a hundred times, other things being equal.

A member asked: I would like Mr. Borden's opinion as to which is the best, three, four, or five lines of Rollers?

Mr. BORDEN. I should prefer four lines of Rollers. The reasons are these: that they divide the draft in such a way that you can handle your length without getting too ragged a Sliver. If you have five lines, without any arrangement for turning the edge of the Sliver, this becomes so ragged as to be in no condition to handle. Four lines divide the draft more equally, and deliver the Sliver without making the edge of it too ragged.

Mr. SCOTT, of Waltham, Mass., remarked, I agree with Mr. Borden as to the number of Rollers. I had some English Drawing Frames in which the front Roll was 14, and the next 1. I turned the first to 13 and the other to 1 inch. I then turned to 14, and succeeded in making good work. What the reasons are I am not able to explain, but that was the fact. Frames that I have had since, I have improved.

The PRESIDENT. Have you made longer distances apart when you

I reduced the size?

Mr. SCOTT. We have.

A member remarked: I suppose the matter of the draft must be dependent upon the weight of the Sliver. I know of no reason to claim an advantage for four lines over three, unless the weight of the Sliver has something to do with it. The flating of Rolls is a point which is attracting a good deal of attention, particularly in Cards. How much has this to do with drawing? On this point I would like to hear from Mr. Kil

burn.

Mr. KILBURN, of Salem, Mass. The question of the degree of closeness or fineness of flutes is one which I have for a long time assumed to be a matter of importance in Drawing Frames. Within the past year I had some difficulty with a five Roll Drawing Frame, with 14 Rolls, where there were forty-seven flutes. The Sliver was very heavy, and wherever a twist was drawn in, it would not draw it down. It would show a little, as it passed through to the calender Roll. In another place I had

a Four Roll Drawing Frame, with sixty-three square flutes, 14 Roll. It was scarcely perceptible in going through. The draft was only four in that case. It only confirmed previous experience that the coarse V flute would allow the Sliver to slip, when a finer square-edge flute would not.

Mr. I would like to inquire whether he has had any experience of the value of Rolls coarse enough to run one with the other, as Gears do?

Mr. KILBURN. In the Five Roll Drawing, where we had the coarse flutes in the bottom, I had two fine-fluted top Rolls; but not cut spiral, to avoid their locking together. In the other case we had the flutes cut straight, top and bottom, where we got the best result. The circumstances of weight, etc., were very nearly equal in the two Frames.

The PRESIDENT. Were the distances apart of the front and middle Roll the same?

Mr. KILBURN. The distance from centre to centre was the

same.

The PRESIDENT. Were the top Rolls covered in both cases? Mr. KILBURN. The best result came from the Shell Roll drawing with the solid Roll.

The PRESIDENT. If any other gentleman has had an experience similar or diverse, we would like to hear it.

Mr. CLARKE, of Lawrence. I have had no experience on the Drawing Frame, but have had some on the Card, with regard to holding the Lap. With a Mason Card, 36 inch, we had a great deal of trouble holding the Lap. I took the Rollers and made them just twice as coarse, rooting out every other flute. Since that time we have had no difficulty whatever.

The PRESIDENT. You took the Rollers and fluted them, and made the grooves deeper?

Mr. CLARKE. Yes.

The PRESIDENT. And made them so as to run almost together, like a pair of gears?

Mr. CLARKE. Not quite so bad as that, but substantially so. Mr. SCOTT, of Waltham. I had some experience with Rolls, but I cannot give the number of flutes. They were Cards which were built a number of years ago. I rooted out one half the flutes, and it improved the Rolls very much.

Mr. KILBURN. I would like to ask, Mr. President, whether in the Paper presented by you, on Drawing, you considered the subdivision of drafts?

The PRESIDENT. I believe that matter was touched upon; perhaps not very fully, as a great many others were not. I think that point was discussed somewhat also at the last meeting of this Association.

A gentleman took exception to the whole system, as stated in the Paper referred to, which was substantially that the Four Roll Drawing Frame was the best, and the proportion of draft should be, say from to between the back and back middle and bottom Rollers, 13 to 24 between the two middle Rollers, and a draft of from 2 to 24 between the front middle Roll and the front Roll. That the lowest drafts named give a total draft of about 4, and the highest a total draft of about 61; and that within these limits, with a fair size of Sliver, the Drawings could be very easily made.

The gentleman alluded to took the ground that the Three Roll Drawing Frame was altogether the best, and that the draft was all between the middle Roll and the front.

Mr. It appears to me that the spiral-fluted Rolls, which Mr. Kilburn calls the fine fluted, were much the best. I do not understand from his description why this was so.

Mr. KILBURN. In both cases the bottom Rolls of the Drawing Frame were fluted straight, and in both we had two fluted top Rolls. In the Five Roll Frame the top Rolls we fluted spirally, and in the other they were fluted straight.

Mr. BLAKE, of Chicopee Falls. I have used three, four, five, and six Roll Drawing Frames, and think the Six Roll Frame perfectly worthless. I am yet to be convinced that three will not do as well as four, in drawing. On the Railway, four are better than three, because the grist is in a different state, and it will admit of the fourth Roll; but when it comes from the Railway it is hard, and quite well straightened. My experience is that three Rolls, with a slight draft between the second and third, and then taken down to second of 14 front, and 1 inch back-will produce as good work as the four Rolls on drawing. In these large Rollers there is a distance between the two bites of 12, 14, and so on.

a difference on the first and

The dis

tance between the centres is so great that a quantity of cotton will go through without drawing, therefore it will necessarily make rather uneven work; but if you draw it down, and let the bite of the Rolls hold it, and draw from the front Roll, you draw what the bite takes of the Sliver. It is on the principle of the old lady with her distaff: she takes out with her finger as she wants to carry through. It is on that principle that the Three Roll Drawing is made, and if you have long staple cotton you will get a thread even. I do not know but that you could get a larger body through,.and get it down, with short staple, into a thread which would be acceptable; but it would be a little uneven, hard and bunchy. I think you would get a smoother thread with three Rolls, but the less you do with the Four Roll, and the less weight you have on it the better it will be. That has been my experience, but I may be wrong. I do not say that I am right.

The PRESIDENT. Did you ever run on the same work, together, the Four Roll and the Three Roll Frame, running substantially the same quality of cotton and Sliver?

Mr. BLAKE. Yes, sir.

The PRESIDENT. And then you found that your drawing from the Four Roll Frame was not the best?

Mr. BLAKE. Yes, sir.

The PRESIDENT. Which could be tended the easiest ?

Mr. BLAKE. The Three Roll.

Mr. HILL, of Thorndike, Mass. I had Four-Roll Drawing and was very much troubled with its breaking down. I altered one Frame to the Three Roll, and the difficulty was cured. I altered all the drawing in the mill, and found I could tend with half the help, and get just as good work. The draft between the back and middle Roll was about 12.

Mr. NOURSE, of Woonsocket, R. I. I was about to ask to what conclusion we have come in relation to this matter of drawing. We are frequently asked what question was discussed, and I should like to know what conclusion we have come to, generally, in relation to the use of Rolls — their size, distance, etc. It seems to me that we have decided nothing. My own inferences are that four Rolls on drawing are better than three or five; in drawing, generally, that the larger the