do with a sharp-shooter's uniform " In asserting, that if he appeared in any disguise it was the conduct of an accomplice to assist him in getting rid of that disguise, and avoiding the equally obvious consideration, that it to be printed for the use of members, both in justice to the noble lord who laid them, and that the noble judge and his friends might have an opportunity of rebutting them. The question was then put, and the charges were ordered to be printed. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Wednesday, March 6. PETITIONS AGAINST THE Property TAX] Petitions were this day presented against the property tax from the county of Gloucester, the town of Marshfield, the farmers of Lacock Wilts, the inhabitants of Chatham, the inhabitants of Plymouth, the farmers of Wigtown, the inhabitants of Marlborough, the tenants &c. of Mid-Lothian, the inhabitants of Durham, the inhabitants of Bedford, the magistrates, &c. of Dysart, persons interested in agriculture in Peterborough, the inhabitants of Wareham,Aylesbury, Aston Abbots, and Higham Ferrers, the landholders of Rutland, the Freeholders of Essex, and the merchants, &c. of Dundee. was not the conduct of an accomplice to proclaim the culprit or the assistance afforded him; in asserting, that the proof adduced of an attempt to suppress the evidence of the red coat by sinking it in the river, made it the more material to attend to the stripping off the clothes, which took place in lord Cochrane's house and thereby insinuating that the sinking of the dress was indicative of its being the same dress that was taken off with the knowledge of lord Cochrane, although it was obviously immaterial and nugatory in that point of view, and that it was equally probable that De Berenger should have attempted to secret the dress of his fraud, whether taken off before or after his appearing in lord Cochrane's presence; and in omitting all consideration of that view of the subject in which it was material, namely, as indicating a necessity on the part of De Berenger of concealing that dress from the view of lord Cochrane, and of secretly removing it from his house, and of seeking elsewhere for the means of its subsequent concealment and suppression; and in insinuating to the jury, that their concluSir W. Geary, in presenting the petision could only be formed upon the supposi- tion from the inhabitants of Chatham tion of De Berenger having appeared before against the property tax, observed, that lord Cochrane dressed as the witnesses represented him to have antecedently been; and he fully agreed with the petitioners, that in omitting to recite several passages of lord the tax should be given up in time of peace. Cochrane's affidavit which were unalterably In those arduous times, when the necessiexculpatory; and in passing over without ties of the country called for the tax, the pause or remark the solemn declaration of people had cheerfully born its pressure, lord Cochrane upon oath, that he had no but those times were passed, and he conconcern either directly or indirectly in the ceived that the representatives of the peofraud that had been committed; and in say-ple should no longer consent to its coning and doing as herein set forth, was and is guilty of partiality, misrepresentation, injustice, and oppression. After the charges had been read, the Speaker wished to know from the noble lord what course he intended to take on them? Lord Cochrane said, that at present he should only move that they be printed. He did not think it right to take any further proceedings on them until members had had an opportunity of examining them deliberately, which they could not do from the cursory manner in which they had been read. He then moved that they be printed. General Matthew seconded the motion. He professed himself altogether ignorant of the merits or demerits of the question at issue, not having been in the country at the time when the proceedings took place; but he thought that the charges ought tinuance. The circumstances under which the tax was first brought forward, and those under which it was now proposed, were materially different. On the first occasion, the distress of the country was so great that it was almost impossible to raise money by loan, at present no such difficulty existed. On the whole, the tax at this time appeared to him unjust and impolitic, and he would therefore take every opportunity of opposing it. Sir G. Clerke having presented a petition from the farmers and other occupiers of land in Mid-Lothian, against the property tax, Mr. Horner bore testimony to the great respectability of the persons by whom the petition. was signed; and insisted on the attention to which their prayer was entitled by the House, from the circumstance of their having borne the heavy pressure of all the war taxes with so much cheerfulness. Sir G. Clerke did not mean to deny the Mr. Lambton, in presenting the petition from the inhabitants of Durham, against the property tax, observed, that the petitioners were of that class of persons, who had been called clamorous against the tax. They were at present in a most economical mood, and evinced what a noble lord had described to be, an ignorant impatience of taxation. They prayed strongly against the proposed peace establishment, and for the reduction of the public expenses, but above all they implored the abolition of the property tax. [1210 respectability of the petitioners, but at manfully met every sacrifice which bethat same time, he thought it right to ex-longed to the stormy times in which they press his dissent from their prayer. He lived-men whose public spirit would did not know under the present circum- never slumber while their country was in stances of the country, a more just or fair difficulty or in danger. But they do now way of raising those supplies which the feel, and feel strongly, that they are taxed public service now called for, than the pro- to the uttermost farthing, not to enable perty tax. their country to resist with effect a formidable and an inveterate public enemy, but to encourage and support a military taste, and out of that, perhaps, a military system, in peace, most dangerous to public liberty.-Sir, these petitioners are of a class of men generally who suffer the most severely from the operation of this tax. They are not merchants. They are not manufacturers. They are in general graziers and dairy farmers, who hold in their hands highly valuable old grass lands, at a very high rent, and who are obliged to stock those pastures Lord Nugent, on presenting the Ayles- with a very expensive sort of stock. Sir, bury petition against the property tax, they complain to me that they can neither said: Sir, I hold in my hand a petition make their rents, nor stock their farms. from the town of Aylesbury, and in pre- They are consuming their capital in the senting it, I feel a satisfaction (not en- means of life. They complain to me that joyed by some few gentlemen who have pre- there is one kind of property for which sented petitions on this subject), the satis- they are assessed highly, a property which faction, I mean, of concurring most fully in fact is in many cases merely ideal. A and warmly in every sentiment expressed, property which in many cases does not and every prayer, contained in the peti- exist, but for which they are taxed as if it tion of my constituents. Sir, they petition did exist, and for their benefit, I mean against the principle of the income tax, as rent. They instruct me that, as between unjust, inquisitorial, and unconstitutional. the landlord and the tenant, 17 per cent. They pray against its revival, under any is paid upon a rent which the latter canmodifications, because they conceive such not pay and the former cannot collect. revival would be a forfeiture of the pledged Sir, this state of things cannot, and will faith of parliament. They petition against not last. The Yeomanry of England will the enormous military establishment proand must resist this odious and profligate posed to be kept up in time of peace, be- system, by every legal means within their cause they conceive such an establishment power. They will not doom their chilto be the real cause of these intolerable dren to want and beggary, themselves and undiminished burthens on the people perhaps to bankruptcy and a gaol, in order of England. They conceive besides that to build thatched cottages for the Prince a large standing army in time of peace is Regent, or to croud his parades with a body highly dangerous, highly uncon- tawdry uniforms in time of peace. stitutional, and highly offensive to the English uniform was once, (and lately too) very spirit and essence of our free govern- respectable wherever it was seen. It was ment, as established by our ancestors, the to the English soldier, all over the world, fathers of the British constitution. Sir, whithersoever he went, at once the record they lay before this House the distresses of his own valour, and the symbol of his of the people, and they complain that country's greatness. But far different these times of general pressure are met, will now be the recollection with which on the part of government, only by in- that uniform will be seen, in peace, on creased profusion in every branch of the the parade at Brighton or the Horsepublic service. It is but fair to these pe- guards, from the recollection of the glotitioners to say, that the greater number rious days of the Peninsular and Waterloo. of those whose names are affixed are wellBut one word more, Sir, on the subject known to me. They are respectable and of this petition, before I move for leave to loyal men,-men who have cheerfully and bring it up. It lay but three days for sig An natures, during which time upwards of two hundred names were affixed. Had it been suffered to lay three days longer, I believe I can pledge myself that considerably above twice that number of signanatures would, in addition, have been obtained. But the petitioners saw, or fancied they saw, an intention manifested by ministers to hurry on this measure at a rate which made them apprehensive that perhaps one day of delay might leave them without the opportunity of humbly entreating the legislature to pause before it sanctioned a tax, in their opinion, so oppressive, injurious, and so little consonant with the spirit and tenor of the English constitution. Sir Gilbert Heathcote, in presenting the petition from the land owners of Rutland, observed, that it was not the petition of the county, but that the petitioners were respectable farmers, graziers, and tradesmen-classes of men who had seldom busied themselves with politics; but who now petitioned because they were anxious for that redress which parliament, as the representative and organ of the people, ought to be desirous to afford. The numerous petitions that had been received left no doubt as to what should be done. It was his own opinion that the great increase of paper money had been a great cause of the evil. The bullion committee suggested that the bank, should narrow its accommodations. Grain afterwards fell, and the farmer was depressed. The country banks refused notes any longer on the security of farm stock. Hence arose almost the non-appearance of what had constituted a great part of the circulating medium. He did not mean to say that the bullion committee were wrong he was not sufficiently acquainted with the subject, but he thought that the great issue of paper had tended to raise the price of corn. It was notorious that for fifteen years the paper circulation had been out of all proportion to that of the metallic currency. This occasioned a disadvantage to us in foreign exchanges. The foreign policy we had so long pursued was dangerous. If we interfered so much in the affairs of continental nations, the uttermost farthing would soon be extracted from the people of this country. Whatever ministers might be advised to do, there was but one positive ground of proceeding for a remedy. The greater the extent of our present reductions, the more certainty there would be of our burthens being lighter in future. Neither the security nor the dignity of the country required these enormous establishments in time of peace. It might be going too far to attribute to the chancellor of the exchequer, or the rest of the ministers, a design to overturn the constitution by taxation and military establishments; but really, when there was no shadow of reason for such extravagance, it was quite natural that a considerable degree of suspicion should be excited. The petition stated facts respecting the weight of taxes and the low price of corn, and the alarm at a war establishment during peace. At the lowest rate of making out a peace establishment, it would amount, in the year after this, to 21 millions. The high duty on malt amounted very nearly to a prohi bition. The petition also called the attention of the House to sinecures and pensions given to those whose services had not merited them, which ought to be abolished. He had another observation to make. Since he had the honour of a seat in that House, he had never heard such extraordinary declarations as he had last night heard from a noble lord_not_now present. They went the length of destroying the whole right and practice of petitioning. The noble lord found fault with members for entertaining the petitions of the people. Never had he heard before such improper and unconstitutional doctrine from any minister. Why, even the petition of a condemned criminal was attended to. He was surprised at such monstrous propositions from the noble lord. Were members to be called factious and seditious, because they entertained and supported the people's petitions? That House might as well be converted into a chamber, in which members might wait till they heard the propositions and opinions of gentlemen on the other side, then give their consent to them, and retire to their homes. As long as he should have a seat in parliament, whenever he received petitions from the people against any measure of administration, from whatever quarter, he should stand up for the right of discussing them in that house. If factious motives were to be ascribed to members for acting so, he would say farewell to the free constitution of Great Britain. Mr. Swan observed, that the petition which had just been presented was not a county petition, and he should state to the House how it had been signed, to | bitants of Rutland, yet it was from a very show how easily a petition might be pro- respectable portion of them. It was the cured, when one or two active gentlemen duty of that House to receive petitions set themselves to work for that purpose. from every class of the community, when There had been no requisition made to they were respectfully drawn up. But the high sheriff to call a meeting. Some perhaps the objection to this petition seven or eight persons had agreed to the arose from its not being very palatable to petition, and went about for the purpose gentlemen on the other side. As to the of procuring the signatures which were tax itself he did not think it so objectionnow to it. A counter-meeting had not able when properly modified, but he been called for the purpose, because it thought under present circumstances it was known that several of the great would be extremely difficult to collect it. landed proprietors were not averse to the tax, conceiving, as they did, that it was called for by the necessity of present circumstances. Mr. Finlay objected strongly to the property tax in the present distressed state of every class of the community. He contrasted the circumstances of the country at the time of its first introduction, with those of the present day, and contended, that the most oppressive way by which the sum demanded could be raised, was the property tax. He would ask the chancellor of the exchequer, if he thought the country now able to bear a tax of six millions, did he not think that it could better bear the interest of that sum? Why, then, should he press the tax, knowing, as he must, that the general distress was so great? He thought that the best way would be to raise the money by loan, which would release the public from so very heavy a burthen, until they were better able to bear it. Sir C. Monck, in answer to the speech of the last speaker but one, observed, that the petition which the hon. baronet had presented was not a county petition. The hon. baronet had himself so stated at the commencement of his speech, but it was not the less entitled to the notice of the House on that account. The hon. gentleman had said, that a meeting of the county had not been called, for fear of the large proprietors who were thought favourable to the tax. If such were the motives of the petitioners they acted right. If, as probably was the case, the large landed proprietors were inclined to support the measure of ministers, and better able to bear such support by paying the tax, the small proprietors had a right to meet among themselves and petition against it, when they found it would press so heavily on them. Sir Gerard Noel Noel said, that though the petition which his hon. colleague had presented, was not from all the inha Lord Rancliffe objected to the extraordinary language used by the last speaker, who supported the tax, but at the same time said, that it would be difficult to be collected. If such difficulty should exist, it would arise from the inability of the people to pay it, and that inability would be an argument against it. To him the tax did not appear at all necessary, and it was impolitic to press it at the present moment, when the opinion of the people was so strongly against it. He could not sit down without mentioning a circumstance which had come to his knowledge that morning. A requisition had been signed by several respectable persons, for the purpose of convening a meeting at Leicester; this had been addressed to the mayor of that town, who refused to call the meeting. The House would probably not be surprised at this refusal on the part of the mayor, when he informed them that this very mayor was the receiver general of the county.-[Hear, hear !]. Mr. Dickenson, to show the severity of the existing mode of levying the tax, instanced the case of Mr. Taylor, a member, who stated by letter to the commissioners of taxes, his inability to pay the tax at the time desired, requesting suspension of the exchequer process with which he was threatened. By the com. missioners he was referred to the chancellor of the exchequer, who, after answering one letter, referred Mr. Taylor back to the commissioners. The commissioners replied, that they did not feel authorized by the act of parliament to grant the relief prayed for. He then applied to the chancellor of the exchequer, who referred him to the commissioners of the taxes. He wrote a second time to the right hon. gentleman from whom no farther answer had been received... 1 The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that when he was so applied to, he certainly should feel no difficulty in giving an explanation. He did answer the applica But, thanks to Mr. Pitt, and to the wisdom and firmness of parliament, that was not now the case. It should be recollected how large a part of our resources was pledged on different accounts, which was certainly a very serious consideration; yet he felt himself far from thinking that our finances were in a hopeless, or a desperate, or an alarming situation. Let the House consider how we had been situated at various periods preceding the war. The burthens laid on the country during the war had been, upon the whole, collected with so much wisdom and success, that now the consolidated fund had a greater surplus than in the year 1790. The augmentation of the funded debt had been so proportionally met by the increase of reve nue, that there was now even a larger surplus than had been calculated upon by the committee of 1791. They calculated upon a million in the sinking fund, with a surplus of two millions. We had now a surplus of 2,500,000l. with a sinking fund of 11,000,000l. There was therefore an improvement in the consolidated fund of 10,000,000l. He had been, and might again be told, that his views would all prove fallacious. For his part he professed but an imperfect judgment concerning futurity, though his anticipations of future events had been much more frequently realized than those of gentlemen on the other side. But this much he would undertake to say, that no diminu tion in the revenue had been experienced up to March. An hon. baronet had dwelt on the distress which he thought arose from the depreciation of the value of currency. He was not at that time disposed to enter into the merits of that question, on which there were various opinions; more particularly as it was not materially connected with the present argument. But if the hon. baronet entertained really the opinions he had professed, he ought to give his support to this measure; for, of all taxes that could be imposed, this tax would have the smallest tendency to depreciate the value of the circulating medium. His object had been principally to give some satisfactory statements respecting what had fallen from some gentlemen; and he had further to observe, that measures had been taken to prevent any penal proceedings. tion of the hon. member alluded to in the for a period without limitation. Mr. Babington rose, in order to defend the character of the principal magistrate of Leicester, from the reflections which § |