The CHAIRMAN. None of those organizations ever figured in the activities in Washington, did they, as did the N. A. M., or do you know how that is?

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir. They figured to this extent of course, the word "activities" is very broad.

The CHAIRMAN. I mean along the same lines as the N. A. M. Mr. EMERY. These various organizations, in some of these contests over matters of legislation here were fully informed with respect to the legislation pending. Take the sundry civil bill, which was pending before the House or the Senate. They were informed fully with respect to it, and they were requested to call it to the attention of their respective Senator or Representative, and undoubtedly many of them did so.

The CHAIRMAN. By whom would it be informed, by the representative

Mr. EMERY (interposing). By the representative of the council, by myself, sending out a bulletin. I want to give to the committee a full set of the bulletins which have been issued from our office covering all these matters of legislation. They are all public bulletins. Thousands of them were circulated among individuals and organizations throughout the country, and they would give to you at a glance the extent and the very character of our activities; but the papers have been so mixed in their handling in the Senate committee that I can not get my hands on them at the present moment. I would like very much to include at this point, for the information of the committee, copies of the bulletins which I can give to your clerk.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be inserted if they are not too long. (The papers referred to, when supplied, will be hereafter inserted in the record.)

Mr. DAVENPORT. Of those associations which were represented at the initial meeting, did not some of them fail to go into the National Council for Industrial Defense.

Mr. EMERY. Oh, yes.

Mr. DAVENPORT. And did the American Antiboycott Association go in or out?

Mr. EMERY. No; it did not join the council. Neither did the National Metal Trades nor the National Founders Association.

The CHAIRMAN. Prior to the organization of this National Council for Industrial Defense, it is in evidence here that there were certain. I activities of the association here I mean of the National Association of Manufacturers-under Mr. Cushing's administration, and on down. I wanted to ask whether any of those other organizationsI am now speaking of the time prior to the formation of the National Council for Industrial Defense-whether any of those other organizations had representatives here, in the same capacity in which Mr. Cushing was here frequently, when he was here representing the National Association of Manufacturers?

Mr. EMERY. Not as far as I know.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know anything about that?

Mr. EMERY. NO; I do not. Prior to the time of the organization of the council the National Association of Manufacturers, which took the lead in the formation of the council, being the largest trade organization in the world and the source of information for manu

facturers and business men, used to send out letters and bulletins digesting legislation in which the members were interested. A great many of the organizations turned naturally to the National Associa- I ion of Manufacturers for information on these subjects, and in that i way it did distribute information on these subjects, subjects of legislation pending, and I assume that Mr. Cushing, as its secretary, distributed information of that character.

Mr. WILLIS. Who directed the issuance of these bulletins that the National Association of Manufacturers distributed prior to the creation of the National Council for Industrial Defense?

Mr. EMERY. I assume the greater part of them were included in the matter turned over to the Senate committee. We turned over about 150,000 letters and circulars.

Mr. WILLIS. Who turned over?

Mr. EMERY. The National Association of Manufacturers.

Mr. WILLIS. And who prepared the bulletins that were distributed to manufacturers throughout the country, giving a general idea of the activities, as to the character of legislation pending in Washington?

Mr. EMERY. I prepared those for the National Council for Indus

trial Defense?

Mr. WILLIS. I mean prior thereto, because, I believe, you stated that prior thereto the National Association of Manufacturers had sent these out quite generally.

Mr. EMERY. I prepared a number during the year 1908, and prior to that time I think Mr. Cushing did. I know I have personally received bulletins from him when I was secretary of the Citizen's Industrial Association, calling my attention to legislation, and I assume they were prepared by him.

Mr. WILLIS. How specific would the matter in them be? Would it state what committee had the legislation, give a description of the legislation; how specific would it be?

Mr. EMERY. Generally, it would give a description of the bill by its title, an analysis of its contents, its status before the committee in which it was pending; whether hearings were to be held, and if so, when they were to be held, and generally the names of the members of the committee before which the argument was to be had, if any, and sometimes accompanied by a circular request or individual request to participate in the argument.

Mr. WILLIS. Let me see if I understand the status prior to the organization of the National Council for Industrial Defense. While these separate organizations that finally became members of the National Association of Manufacturers, such as the National Wagon Manufacturers' Association, and the National Founders' Association, and others while they were not represented, so far as you know, as organizations, is it a fact that they were represented, indirectly, through the membership of their individual members in the National Association of Manufacturers; is that a fact?

Mr. EMERY. Why, so far as they were members of the National Association of Manufacturers.

Mr. WILLIS. That is what I mean. They were not all members of the National Association of Manufacturers?

Mr. EMERY. None of them were members as associations.

Mr. WILLIS. I understand that; but while they were not members as associations, some of them were possibly members of the N. A. M. as individuals, and in that way they were represented here? Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

Mr. WILLIS. But not as separate associations?

Mr. EMERY. There was no continuous representation here. The National Association of Manufacturers, during Mr. Cushing's régime, was not continuously represented in Washington, apparently. I have heard this testimony to the effect that Col. Mulhall was here a great deal, but I knew nothing about its activities, personally. The idea that was behind the council was to give systematic organization and direction to the examination of these matters, and the information would proceed from a common source to all persons interested in it, and they would consider action in respect to such legislation. The idea of the council was to give the same careful attention to these particular matters of legislation, on account of the principles which underlaid them, that was being given to their enactment by the various labor organizations, with the idea of getting united action upon the part of all organizations and individuals who were interested in opposing them as a matter of principle.

Mr. WILLIS. In other words, then, there were already large numbers of members, individuals. or firms throughout the country that were represented here to some extent, anyway, through membership in the National Association of Manufacturers, and through the organization of the National Council for Industrial Defense, made up as it was of these separate national associations, who were kept informed of the legislative situation?

Mr. EMERY. To get all the organizations to support them with it. You will understand that the National Association of Manufacturers was composed only of individuals.

Mr. WILLIS. I understand that.

Mr. EMERY. Whereas there were a great number of organizations which could not be members of the National Association of Manufacturers, but which had a united interest with it, whose members had a strong belief in these principles. They desired to advance and support them, and it was sought that by systematically organizing all the various associations into a group which would receive this information from a common source and act under a common leadership they would be in a better position to carry on this fight than by acting sporadically, individually, and separately. By the time they had received such information as the National Association of Manufacturers distributed, they were supporting it to whatever extent they did; that is, the individuals were. As to what the different organizations did, I do not know anything. In the various meetings it was developed that while there was a great deal of interest among all these associations, there was no central source for the distribution of information, and a great lack of efficiency, and there was also duplication to a considerable extent.

The CHAIRMAN. Was there any very great difference in the work done by the National Association of Manufacturers and the National Council for Industrial Defense?

Mr. EMERY. Well

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). The National Association of Manufacturers had no attorney here, no counsel, no one who was acting

in the capacity that you are acting in now for the National Council for Industrial Defense, and I will ask you if the information sent out was not substantially the same as the information-I mean along the same lines-as the information sent out by the National Council for Industrial Defense? Is there any very great difference in the work done by the National Council for Industrial Defense and the work done by the National Association of Manufacturers?

Mr. EMERY. I think there is a very great difference in the method of distribution.

The CHAIRMAN. There may be a difference in the method of distribution.

Mr. EMERY. Some of these organizations to which I refer, either were those who were members of the council through organizations which had participated in arguments before committees of Congress from a very early period, like the American Anti-Boycott Association, which, in addition to litigation which they had instituted in the courts at that time, also argued many of these important matters before committees of Congress. The idea was to unite as much. as possible by an organized responsibility influences that could be brought to bear in protecting these highly important principles, as these men saw them.

Mr. CLINE. You were converging all of these matters to the same point by these organizations; is that not true?

Mr. EMERY. In what respect, Judge Cline?

Mr. CLINE. In respect to legislation.

Mr. EMERY. Yes; in defense of the same principle.

Mr. CLINE. They all moved in one direction?

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLINE. You prepared the bulletins for the National Council for Industrial Defense?

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLINE. Do you prepare any bulletins for the National Association of Manufacturers?

Mr. EMERY. The National Association of Manufacturers receives those bulletins as any other member of the council does. I prepare none separately.

Mr. CLINE. Do you prepare bulletins for the National Association of Manufacturers?

Mr. EMERY. None separately from those.

Mr. CLINE. You prepare these primarily for the National Council for Industrial Defense?

Mr. EMERY. They are distributed among the various associations. Mr. CLINE. Then they filter out through these organizations and are read by all the members?

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

Mr. DAVENPORT. I would like to inquire of Mr. Emery whether it is not a fact that the National Antiboycott Association was represented here by myself during the winter of 1903-4, 1904-5, 1905–6, 1906-7, and 1907-8, before the formation of the National Council for Industrial Defense?

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know how that is?

Mr. EMERY. I know that personally from 1906 on, and historically prior to that time.

Mr. CLINE. I do not think the members of the committee-I am speaking for myself in particular-have a clear understanding of just how this National Council for Industrial Defense was organized. I wish the witness, if it is agreeable to the chairman and the other members of the committee, would just tell us something about that. Mr. EMERY. As I said, the National Council for Industrial Defense grew out of a perceived necessity on the part of all the gentlemen interested who attended conferences in New York in 1907 and 1908.

Mr. CLINE. I understand that. Let me ask you a question or two, and perhaps we can get at it quicker and save some time. Did you have a regularly called meeting for organizing the council? Mr. EMERY. Yes.

Mr. CLINE. When was that?

Mr. EMERY. The first meeting, I said, was called August 19, 1907. Mr. CLINE. What did you do at that meeting?

Mr. EMERY. We discussed ways and means of cooperation and obtained an expression of opinion from all the representatives present. Mr. CLINE. Was that all you did at that meeting?

Mr. EMERY. No; we adopted several resolutions; and all the representatives expressed themselves as perceiving the necessity for closer cooperation.

Mr. CLINE. Did you form the organization at that time?

Mr. EMERY. No; we did not.

Mr. CLINE. When was the next meeting?

Mr. EMERY. The next meeting

was September 23, which was really

an adjourned meeting of the first.

Mr. CLINE. And you had your by-laws and constitution and articles

Mr. EMERY. No, sir.

Mr. CLINE (continuing). For the conduct of this National Council for Industrial Defense?

Mr. EMERY. No, sir; it was conducted under resolutions adopted at that time.

Mr. CLINE. Who were the officers in that organization? I mean, what officers does the organization provide for?

Mr. EMERY. It provides for a chairman, a secretary-treasurer, and

counsel.

Mr. CLINE. Council. Does that council perform the duties of a board of directors?

Mr. EMERY. It authorized the chairman to proceed with the selection of counsel, and such other officers as were necessary to execute its purposes.

Mr. CLINE. The council is not elected?

Mr. EMERY. No, sir; he was selected by the chairman.

Mr. CLINE. The chairman selects the council?

Mr. EMERY. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLINE. And then the council selects the others?

The CHAIRMAN. I think you are confusing c-o-u-n-s-e-l with c-o-u-n-c-i-l there.

Mr. EMERY. I am using the word in two meanings. C-o-u-n-c-i-l refers to the organization as a council, and c-o-u-n-s-e-l refers to the individual selected to perform its individual functions.