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loan would be productive of no injury, I more secure; and as for the West Indies, but might, on the contrary, be beneficial. would be hard to say that the French

· The petitions were ordered to lie on the could build a navy and equip an armament table.

for that part of the world, before we could

send one to meet it. However, in Jamaica COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY — Peace there were to be 4000 men, though in all ESTABLISHMENT.] Mr. Brogden having the years after the American war there brought up the Report of the Committee had never been more than 1900 men. of Supply, the Chancellor of the Exche. Some explanation should be given, why quer moved, that the Resolutions be now such increase of our establishments was read. On the first Resolution being put, necessary. Why might not our establish

Mr. Wynn expressed his entire dissent ments be reduced below what they were from the financial plan which had been after the American war! There was, it last night developed by the chancellor of seemed, a union of three great powers, the exchequer. He dissented from the for the professed end of supporting the whole scale of establishments there laid Christian religion. This was a pretty down. He said, he had throughout the wide object; but if it had any meaning, it war supported ministers in their mea- was to maintain peace by mutual pledges, sures for effectually carrying on the war, and to enable Europe to return to a general and had objected to all premature pro- peace establishment. What powers did posals of peace, because on all former oc- we now apprehend? America ? Were we casions he had been persuaded that a afraid of her resolution to build one ship peace, if concluded, could not be durable, every year? Then we might build two. that it would be but an armed truce, and But the main branch of increased expentherefore that it would be better to carry | diture was the army. The expense of the on the war, till we might enjoy the real ordnance was to be two millions, which blessings of peace-low establishments, at the period he had alluded to and a general reduction of expenditure. 318,0001. only. The hon. gentleman con. But what had we now? We had a large cluded by expressing his strong disapprowar establishment under the name of peace bation of the proposed enormous peace -We had 149,000 men in arms-a mili- establishment ; that was the great evil of tary force four times that which had ever which he complained, and one against before been kept up in time of peace. which our forefathers had uniformly diWe were told that our conquests needed rected their steadiest and most persevering garrisons. This surprised him, because efforts. on former occasions he had rejoiced in Mr. Barclay said, that as he was one of those conquests, not on the ground of the the first to concur in the enactment of assistance they would give our trade-for the property tax, at a moment of national we had colonies enough before-but be- exigency, so he was now among the forecause by taking from the French their most of those who called for its repeal, military positions, we should require when the necessity for its enactment no smaller garrisons in our own settlements. | longer existed. He said, he could see In how.much superior a situation were we no reason against the introduction of a now to that in which we stood at the close temporary loan. If the surplus of the of the American war. France had then money-market was not thus employed, it a navy equal to our own-Holland had would go into other channels, for it was also a navy, and was in the French interest in vain to deny that many of the foreign -Spain was in the same situation-Austria loans were negociated in this country ; the was connected with France by marriage, purchase of Louisiana, for instance, and and followed the steps of that country- the late contributions upon France, were, Prussia was in the same connexion. But it was understood, in a train of arrangenow the French navy was no more-the ment here. If great relief would follow army of France was disbanded-no nation the reduction of 5 per cent. of the proin Europe had a fleet. Yet we were to perty tax, what would not be the benefit have a peace establishment quadruple that if the whole were repealed ? At all events, which was deemed sufficient at the former it could never be collected from landlords period. Now, both in the East and West whose tenants were unable to pay, their Indies a smaller force would be necessary rents; from traders, who could make no than formerly. We had possession of the profits; and from merchants, at an aveMauritius, which made the East Indies rage of five or six years profits, when pro

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bably during the last year the produce of the people of England, he would predict, the former had been wholly absorbed. in a very few years, from a measure so.

Mr. Horner said, he concurred in much alien to their system, the downfall of their of what had fallen from the preceding liberty and constitution. It was nothing: speaker. He would, however, take that less than a project to alter the uniform opportunity of asserting, that the people policy of Great Britain, and to amalgacould not be relieved from their present mate her character with that of the miliappalling difficulties in any other than one tary states in Europe, by a total subver-. way; namely, by a reduction of the pro. sion of the principles of her constitution. posed peace establishment. It was in By the lot of her. insular situation, she vain to listen to the suggestions of those was by nature a naval and maritime state, who recommended a little loan; sugges and to the preservation and cultivation of tions which, by the way, might be merely the advantages necessarily belonging to intended to sound the House upon the that state, she was paramountly bound to practicability of such a mode of proceed adhere. She might, indeed, be dazzled ing. All this was a plain and palpable with the newly-acquired glories of her delusion; the difficulties of the country army; she might take her rank with the were most urgent and pressing, they must despots of the continent; but in vain be met, and if ministers could show that could she expect to prolong the native there really existed a necessity for the pride of her free character. The two sys.. maintenance of the proposed system, he, tems were incompatible. Either the gofor one, would not hesitate to vote for the vernment or the military establishment property tax But he was firmly satisfied must give way, and when the question they were totally incapable of establishing was a struggle for ascendancy between that necessity. He had indeed consented liberty and the constitution one to the enactment of that tax during the hand, and power and despotism, upheld war, although persuaded of its odious, op- by a military establishment, on the other, pressive, burthensome, inquisitorial cha- the warning experience of history proracter, because he felt the force of that claimed, that the struggle was short, and policy which compelled its existence. the termination most ruinous. IndeThose times had now passed away, and pendently of these, to him conclusive rea. the real question for the Commons of sons, against the adoption of the present England, in the exercise of their sacred measure, the financial state of the country trust, was at once to say aye or no to the presented an unanswerable argument on momentous proposition now submitted to the same side. He would therefore protheir consideration. Was it necessary to test against it altogether, and insist that it support 50,000 troops for the British was a mere delusion to talk of expedients, isles? Was it necessary to erect a peace and to hope for a diminution of burthens establishment of 150,000 men? In his if the proposed establishment was to be opinion, he would reply, no; and he maintained. If the people were to hope would affirm and maintain that negative for relief, they had but one chance of through every part of the details which it having their expectations realized, and was said 'were to be forthcoming. The that was by a reduction of the peace estasituation of the country was not what it blishment. had been but a few years ago. Was the The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, necessity of defence, he would ask, greater he felt himself called on to say a few or smaller than at the period to which he words. In consequence of an expectation would allude ? France, at the close of the held out, he had already given to the American war, had a navy almost at our House some general information respectshores, and superior, perhaps, to the fleets ing his views of our financial affairs. He destined for our protection. Spain and was happy to find that gentlemen were Holland had also a maritime strength of likely to come to the approaching discusno unimportant station. All these exter- sion with candour. On the question of nál considerations had happily disappear- the necessity of the establishments, the ed, the safety of our colonial settlements arguments of ministers must stand or fall. was also placed on a steady footing, and The hon. and learned gentleman admitted, yet the country was required to keep up a that if they could show this necessity, he military force of an enormous and most would allow it, and that it was not by any unexampled extent. If such a peace es- shuffling expedient that relief could be tablishment as this were listened to by procured. He (the Chancellor of the

Exchequer) had before said, that we only quarters, and that an opposition would required a further exertion of that perse- arise from without which would induce verance and firmness which we had dis- him to change his system. The people played during the contest to bring us must be roused to attend to their own intea through our difficulties. As to the pro- rests; they must be excited to take every priety of maintaining the proposed estab- constitutional method of resisting schemes lishments, he could only say, that govern. which would not only empty the purses, ment would be ready to substantiate their but endanger the liberties of the nation. propositions, and to discuss the subject The chancellor of the exchequer had candidly. He should therefore make but admitted, that his hon. and learned friend one more remark; he was rather surprised had argued the question fairly and ably, to hear, when our liberties bad been so (as he must be allowed to do every queslong upheld, that they would be endan- tion on which he delivered his opinion in gered by an additional force of 25,000 that House), and that he had placed his

resistance to the proposed measures upon Mr. Tierney said, he did not think, as a proper foundation. His hon. and learn. the right hon. gentleman had observed, ed friend had clearly shown that there that the increase of our military estab- must be a reduction of our establishments, lishment from twenty to twenty-five thou- and that, without such reduction, any atsand men would be forthwith detrimental tempt to relieve the country by financial to the peace and security of the country: palliatives would be a mere deception He did not believe that their arms would practised upon the people. He had given be immediately turned against their fellow it as his opinion, and stated very satisface citizens, or that they would be employed tory grounds for believing, that there was to cut our throats. Still he was not the no necessity for the enormous army which less relieved from the dread which they was proposed to be supported. When we inspired. He dreaded the power of the had gained so many victories, and acCrown, supported by such an enormous quired so much military glory-when no establishment, he was alarmed for the external enemy could be pointed out as danger that ultimately threatened the li- likely to trouble our repose, why were we berties and constitution of England. He to be at such an immense expense in felt this alarm himself, and wished he had maintaining useless troops ? When the a voice to sound it from one end of the noble lord had by his negociations pacified nation to the other. The people should Europe ; when he had exercised his wisbe warned of their situation--they should dom in settling the affairs of the continent, be advertised of the designs their govern and disposed all its states to entertain ment had in view. The House would sentiments of moderation and tranquillity, disgrace itself, if on such an occasion it what pretence could there be for supdid not demand a call of its members. If porting an army of nearly 150,000 men? ever there was a time when the represen- Had not the noble lord taken credit to tatives of the people should be universally himself for the result of his counsels. Had assembled to examine the measures of ad. he not received a blue ribband exclusively ministration, and to declare to their con- for his great services on the Continent? stituents the dangers which threatened | And were we now to be told, that the them, and the way in which those dan-only advantage the country could derive gers were to be averted, what had oc- from them was to see their resources curred last night pointed out this as wasted, and their liberties endangered by the period. They should be assembled a standing army, upon the pretence that to oppose the measures in contem- the state of Europe still rendered it neplation and to decide upon the mon cessary for us to maintain a formidable strous statement delivered by the right attitude ? When the question arose conhon. the chancellor of the exchequer, cerning the necessity of an establishment, within the walls of that House. The he would ask what were the advantages noble lord opposite might smile at what secured to us by the noble lord's negociahe now said. He probably felt himself tions? When the noble lord came forward secure in his situation, he was confident with a proposition for maintaining a great in his overpowering majorities, and might army, he would ask, “ what then is the anticipate no danger from within doors. your blue ribband ?” (Loud cries He (Mr. Tierney) trusted, however, that of Hear, hear! and a laugh on the opposihe would not see himself so secure in all tion benches.] The situation of the country at present, and its situation in the who could neither boast of the splendor year 1792 had been compared. The of his dress, nor the refinement of his times were indeed changed since then, manners. The noble lord himself must but these changes had all a tendency to have seen, that in circles where he had show that our establishments, instead of been, composed of high personages, no being prodigiously increased, should be topic of conversation excited such lively materially diminished.

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Our army then interest or curiosity as his accounts of the was not more than a fourth part of what reviews at which he had been, the varieit was now intended to be, while our navy ties of uniform he had observed, the bril. was nearly as great as the present esti- liant manner in which the troops performmate. We had been fighting for these ed their exercises, and the great concourse twenty-three years to obtain security; we of eminent persons that were delighted had gained great victories; we were with the spectacle. He must have obplaced beyond the reach of danger, and served how eagerly he was listened to, yet our army was to be kept up, as if we while he described the different species of were on the eve of the most alarming cri. force in the service of our allies--this resis. There was no such intimation with giment of guards, that of hussars, and regard to the navy, on which this country another of cuirassiers. All this might be had formerly been accustomed to rely for very captivating, if it could be procured. its protection and security. What did this for nothing; but, unhappily, the day of predilection portend? What intention did reckoning and payment came, and we it point out on the part of the executive? had to bear the expenses of these brilliant He would not hesitate to say, that in his con- spectacles. science he believed it was the object of The right hon. the chancellor of the his majesty's ministers to make us a mili- exchequer could last night keep a firm tary nation. He would not hesitate to countenance while he spoke of our taxes say, that this great peace establishment and our distresses. He could talk as was the commencement of the execution coolly of millions of pounds as others of a design entertained, to assimilate this could do of hundreds. Nothing seemed nation to the great military powers on the to move him, in the statement which he Continent. This system, he believed in gave, as either extraordinary or striking; his conscience, was the one on which they but he (Mr. Tierney) could conceive nowere bound to act, if they wished to retain thing more unexpected and alarming. their places. His majesty's ministers The right hon. gentleman had congratu. were bound to support the measure of a lated the House on the flourishing state great standing army, by the very terms of our finances, and had mentioned, as an on which they held their office. They evidence of this prosperous condition, that might use any fredom with the navy, but instead of being obliged to make any loan they had no power to reduce the army ; this year, there would remain 14 millions they might pay off ten ships of the line arising from the sinking fund, to be ap

. sooner than disband one regiment of hus- plied to the support of public credit. sars. The progress of this system might There was, however, one objection to this be traced for years in all our measures. statement, which was sufficient to destroy Every day this propensity seemed to ac- the satisfaction which it might otherwise quire strength. The proper defence of yield. The right hon. gentleman had not the country, which resided in our navy, disclosed the whole of our condition to the was neglected for a more splendid and House, and had therefore left an impresshowy species of force. There was, he sion that this sum was free of all deducconfessed, something peculiarly captivat- tions. Last year there had been about ing to some persons in the array of a nu- 36 millions by way of loan voted, and 12 merous army-in the spirited horses, the millions of this still remained unpaid. splendid equipments, and rich dresses of This amount of 12 millions was to be the cavalry force, and in the brilliant ap- placed opposite the 14 millions to which pearance and regular evolutions of great the right hon. gentleman's speech remasses of infantry, in all the pomp and ferred, and would nearly neutralize his parade of a review. He was not surprised prosperous statement. He spoke this that a preference was given, when mere under correction, as he had not ascertained external decoration was concerned, to exactly the sum ; but he had reason to an officer, of hussars, with his fur cap believe that if not 12 millions, it amounted and whiskers, over a plain jolly sailor, to more than 11 millions. The great

loan of last year remained thus nearly one- 1 large sum you have forgotten that more third unpaid, and if the bank had not than 24 millions will be furnished by Ireagreed to prolong the term of payment, land.”. This he considered as fallacy the the right hon. gentleman would have no second, for where was the Irish proportion, reason to boast of bis 14 millions. The to come from? He should be glad to hear bank, he adınitted, might have good mo- that Ireland could furnish this supply, and tives for the assistance they lent to go wished to know where the ways and means vernment (and none were more willing were to be found. If his right hon. friend, than he to do it credit, when he thought the late chancellor of the Irish exchequer, it deserved it), and this assistance might had been in his place, he would have applied be useful to the country without injuring to him for an answer, but not finding him, that corporation itself, but the right hon. he would appeal to the British chancellor gentleman had no right to say that the of the exchequer, and ask what probanation was relieved, till every farthing of bility there was that this sum could be this was discharged. The bank itself was raised in Ireland as her proportion of the perfectly secure while omnium stood, as necessary revenue? He did not believe at present, at a premium of between 13 that in her present circumstances, that and 15 per cent. Here the right hon. kingdom could contribute any proportion gentleman entered into an explanation, of the sum imposed upon it; he might which he conceived might be useful to almost say, that instead of being able to those who had not particularly attended yield 2 millions for a peace establishment, to the financial arrangements of govern- it could not afford a single pound. If he ment, with regard to loans, for the pur. were now asked, how Ireland had contripose of showing how the instalments are buled before to the wants of the state, he paid during the currency of the year; and would beg gentlemen to recollect that it proving that the bank could not be a loser was principally by loans that her proporby advancing these instalments, while tion had been paid. Indeed, in such a omnium continued at so high a premium state was that unfortunate country at preas it had done lately. He contended that sent, that Great Britain would be under the right hon. gentleman had not dealt the necessity of assisting it, rather than fairly by the House in concealing from its receiving any assistance from it. He had view this unpaid balance of last year's no objection that we should even make loan, and asked, what good would the some sacrifices for the assistance of the throwing of fourteen millions into circula. sister kingdom, and he would hail the day tion produce, when twelve millions were when she should be able to return the to be taken out of it?

benefit, but he saw no reason at present With regard to the peace establishment, for believing that either we could advance Mr. Tierney said he would now make a the Irish contribution, or that Ireland itfew observations. The supplies for the self could do it. year were stated at something more than The right hon. gentleman now begged 29 millions; and a great proportion of this to make a few observations on the ways sum might be called establishments. and means. He would have given the There was 23,738,0001. of this for our ministers credit for their conduct, had they army and navy alone. The noble lord followed the more prudent, familiar, and opposite, had given it as his opinion, that homely course of stating the ways and a reduction of this sum to the extent of means before the supplies. He admitted three millions might be expected in future that it was a homely and vulgar rule to years. He was even disposed to go fur- count the cost before we entered upon an ther, and to anticipate the saving of four expensive undertaking; but he neverthemillions. Thus the 29 millions required less could not help thinking that there for this year being reduced by the sum of was some wisdom in it; that it was appli14 million paid to the bank, two millions cable to states 'as well as to individuals, paid in discharge of exchequer-bills, and and might be equally beneficial in the af the 900,0001. of debentures, together with fairs of both. It was easier, however, four millions that might be withdrawn and more striking, for the right hon. genfrom the support of the national forces, tleman to come down to the House, and, would leave upwards of 20 millions, which after giving a pompous description of our would be the lowest to which it could be victories, after calling for our congratulaexpected to arrive. “Well, but," said tions on the dignified attitude we occupied the chancellor of the exchequer, “ of this among the nations, and telling us of our

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