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ereditors, and to servants to rob their previous disposal, as well as being subject employers, as well also as by the frauds to the consequent control of parliament; committed upon the public revenue; and and the same rules should be observed as that they tend to encourage the manufac- to the issue of it, as to any other public ture of inferior and disreputable articles, money. He conceived he should betray to the great injury of the manufactures his trust as a representative of the British and commerce of the country, and which nation in parliament, if he were satisfied will now prove still more injurious, when with any other recantation of the claim we shall have to contend against the rival which had been set up. The hon. genmanufactures of other nations; and that, tleman said he should not at present fix while the persons vending at these sales any day for his motion. elude that responsibility, as well as various taxes, which attach to the regular ADDRESS FOR ACCOUNTS OF PEACE trader, disreputable articles are not only EstaBLISHMENTS.] On the motion of vended with impunity, but, as the peti- lord Milton, it was ordered, “ That there 'tioners are well informed, the auction duty be laid before this House, a return of the is to a great extent evaded; and that me- expense and numerical amount of the morials have been presented to the lords peace establishments, military and naval, commissioners of his majesty's treasury, for the years 1714, 1730, 1749, and and petitions to the House, but no remedy 1764.” It was also resolved, “That an has yet been obtained for these griev- humble address be presented to the Prince ances; and that a bill was brought into Regent, that he will be graciously pleased the House in the year 1814, with the con- to give directions that there be laid before currence of the chancellor of the exche- this House, the best accounts that can quer, but afterwards withdrawn on ac- be formed for showing the average num. count of some informality, but, for causes bers and expense of the military and naval unknown to the petitioners, the same was establishments maintained by this country not again introduced; and praying the in the several periods of peace from the House to take these serious grievances treaty of Utrecht to the commencement into consideration, and grant such relief of the American war." in the premises as to them shall seem meet."

IMPROVEMENTS IN PALL MALL OPPOOrdered to lie upon the table.

SITE CARLTON House.] Mr. Baring rose

to move for accounts, to which, he ap. MONEY PAID BY FRANCE TO THIS prehended, no objection would be given; Country.] Sir James Mackintosh said, he meant, a return of all sums of money that in consequence of the claim which expended, and contracted to be expended had been set up by the chancellor of the for the improvement of Pall-Mall, oppoexchequer on the part of the Crown, to site Carlton-house. the right of disposing of the money which Mr. Huskisson said, so far was he from had been, or was to be, paid by the go- objecting to give information upon this vernment of France to this country, he subject, that he felt much indebted to the thought it his duty to bring the subject hon. gentleman for affording him an opbefore the House. He should bring on portunity to state that which, he trusted, the question, certainly not as a mere the would put an end to some misconceptions oretical point of law, but as a question of which had gone abroad upon this subject. constitutional practice, and he should at With respect to information as to the once have named the day, if he had not money expended in the improvements wished to wait a reasonable time to ena- opposite Carlton-house, it was impossible ble ministers to take such steps as might for him to give any, as the public office render the discussion unnecessary.

He with which he was connected had nothing should state what he considered would be to do with that expenditure. He was such an acknowledgment as would be suf-aware that some alterations had taken ficient: it was not the forbearing to urge place in the buildings opposite Carltonthe claim in words, nor the appropriating house, from which, he apprehended, the merely the money to the public service, misconception to which he alluded had because the form in which that money arisen. These, however, were wholly atwas applied would constitute the acknow- tributable to the caprice of private indivi. ledgment of the right of parliament. The duals, and were in no respect connected money received should be placed at the with the general execution of the plan of

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the new street. He could assure the hon. / especial manner to the benefit of rescuing gentleman, that the New-street act had from danger, and securing accurate inforbeen observed by the commissioners ap- mation of those remains; and that, having pointed to superintend its execution to on these suggestions provided the best the very letter, no deviation whatever assistants Rome could afford, and being having been made from the original plan. thereby, and by the employment of all All they had done was to remove some other necessary means, enabled to avail houses in front of Carlton-house, and himself of every favourable opportunity as then let the ground to private individuals, it arose during and since his embassy, the at a ground rent; and he was happy to petitioner now begs leave to transfer to add, that such rents had been obtained, the publie what he humbly conceives to as fully corresponded with the estimate of be a full attainment of an object of high the architect employed on the occasion. importance to the progress of the fine arts, in the course of a short time it was his namely a complete series of the sculptures intention to bring before the House the which formed the principal ornament of triennial report of the land revenue of the the ancient temples in Athens, specimens Crown, which was required by act of par- of their most characteristic architecture, liament, and in doing this he should follow as well as drawings, casts, vases, medals the example of his predecessor, although and inscriptions, from Athens, and other not strictly required, by adding a full and parts of Greece; and that, as the circumaccurate detail of all the improvements stances attending his endeavours in the and alterations which had taken place, attainment of this object bear no resem either in the New.street, Mary-le-bone blance to those under which any other Park, or in his majesty's woods and collection was ever presented to the pubforests. There was no wish, in fact, to lic, and as it is presumed that the series keep back any information on this subject. of sculpture in itself has no parallel in

Mr. Baring, considering this explana- objects ever before purchased, the petition satisfactory, with the leave of the tioner hopes to be pardoned for soliciting House, withdrew his motion.

that the House would institute an inquiry, · Mr. Tierney wished to be informed, upon such evidence as may be procured, whether the report intended to be pre into the merits and value of what he now sented by the hon. gentleman would con- offers and take into its consideration how tain an account of the distribution of the far and upon what conditions it may be sums of money received for crown land? advisable that the property of the said

Mr. Huskisson answered that the report collection should be transferred to the would contain an account of every farth. public." ing received or disbursed, either in the Ordered to lie

upon the table. New-street, Mary-le-bone Park, or his Majesty's woods and forests.

MOTION RELATING TO Spain.] The The motion was then withdrawn. order of the day being read,

Mr. Brougham rose, pursuant to the The EARL OF Elgin's Petition.] notice he had given, to offer to the attenA Petition from the earl of Elgin was tion of the House a subject which he held offered to be presented to the House by it bound to take into its most serious consithe Chancellor of the Exchequer, who deration, by every principle of honour, jusacquainted the House, that his royal high- tice, and strict political prudence ;-he ness the Prince Regent having been in- meant that political prudence, which, formed of the contents of the said petition, taking an enlarged view of our best inrecommended it to the consideration of terests, was alone worthy to govern the the House. Then the said Petition was conduct of a great nation. He was sure, brought up and read ; setting forth, that in opening this question he should be : “ That at the period of the petitioner's spared the disagreeable necessity of callappointment to the embassy to Turkey in ing on the House to follow him through the year 1799, several eminent artists and any great length of detail, as that which patrons of the fine arts, lamenting that, he had to mention was too notorious, and from the prejudices of the Turks, any had already operated too strongly on their remains which might still exist of ancient feelings, to demand that he should press sculpture and architecture in Greece, were it much on them now. It would be neinaccessible, and exposed continually to cessary that he should endeavour, before destruction, directed his attention in an he proceeded further, to correct some (VOL. XXXII.)

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misrepresentations which had gone abroad, at another to those who had been cordially and which had had some effect on the minds united with us, to establish that very of those whom he most respected, as he power, the abuse of which subjected them had learnt from a conversation which had to oppression. If there was one way of taken place on the preceding evening in losing the high character we had gained that House, to which an hon. friend of more degrading than any other, it was his who sat near him, had been a party. unquestionably this

. It was on this prinHe was anxious to do this, that the prin- ciple alone that he now came forward, ciples on which he had taken up the ques- and doing this, he was anxious to state, tion should not be misunderstood. How that he did not sacrifice one tittle of that ever much the attention of Europe might opinion which he had formerly delivered be attracted to the present exalted situ- on the injustice of interfering in certain ation of this country which to them might cases with other nations, where this course be an object of admiration, of envy and had been decided upon by the English alarm-to whatever circumstances they government. As strongly as he had ever might ascribe its present power, he held done, he protested against our right to the advantage we now enjoyed to be interfere with another nation, by dictating more, much more, owing to our land to it the form of government which it having been made the rallying point of all should adopt, or by imposing on a great good principles, to which all good men, people any king or family that it might be suffering in a good cause, were led to fly our wish to see reign over them. While for relief--to its having been made a place he maintained his former opinions on of refuge to which all who were oppressed these subjects, he would contend that a might look for assistance, and not look right to interfere might spring from other in vain. To these things he ascribed our circumstances and it was on this principle present greatness, more than to any thing that he should that night submit his moelse which his imagination or memory tion to the House. could suggest. Though some might as- It could scarcely be necessary for him cribe it to the diplomatic talents of the to remind those who heard him of the poble lord opposite, and others trace it to argument formerly held, when it was rethe more unquestionable merits of our solved byministers to interfere with army and navy, yet he, though not deny- France. It was then asserted that we ing, and God knows not undervaluing had no right to interfere with that nation, their services, was disposed to trace to because she chose to be governed as a still higher sources our present advan- republic ; that on this account we were not tageous situation—to our free constitution bound to interfere in behalf of those who to our free parliament, and to our free had never been ourallies; that this furnished press. It was from the possession of these no ground for the recall of our ambassador advantages that the truth could always be from France; or for breaking the peace disseminated in this country. Our free which then subsisted between the two press conveyed it to an inquiring and con. countries. These principles, at the comsequently to an enlightened people, and mencement of the French revolution had our free parliament (free at least in its been maintained on that side of the House discussions), co-operated in the same from which he spoke, and these principles labour. It was from these great advanta- he still held sacred. So far was he from ges that he believed our high situation to deviating from them, when he contended be derived. That situation, however, it that the interference of this country with ought to be borne in mind, might be respect to Spain was now called for, that placed in jeopardy, by precipitate and ill the opinion of that great man, now no timed interference with the affairs of other more (Mr. Fox), guided him on this ocnations; and it would be no less in danger, casion, and the substance of his present if we universally abstained from interfer- motion was drawn from the words which ence, where this was demanded of us on | Mr. Fox had used when he last spoke in principles of gratitude, justice and duty. that House of the interference of this But the most scandalous way in which our country in the affairs of France. The exalted situation might be lost was, by a House would perceive that he referred to wayward and capricious exercise of our a conversation which had taken place interference, by using it at one time in about the end of December, 1792. Prebehalf of a family with whom we were not vious to this, in consequence of the connecessarily connected, and by refusing it duot of the revolutionary government to. wards the royal family of France, lord Pitt, on the recommendation of Mr. Fox, Gower, our ambassador, had been recalled. for the correspondence which had taken A difference arose between the two coun- place on the subject of the recall of lord tries, and the king's ministers declared Gower. This gave all those who felt as France had no longer a government capa- Mr. Fox did, an opportunity of expressble of maintaining the relations of peace ing their sentiments, and that right hon. and amity. Those who sat on the oppo- gentleman expressed a hope that the sition side of the House at that time, con- debate would have a salutary effect; though tended, that whatever might be the faults he did not calculate on its proving the of the French government, as it was then salvation of the Bourbons, yet he exthe government de facto, it ought not to pected it would do some good. He howhave been treated in this manner. But ever still felt, that an accredited agent when the proceedings of those persons from this country was wanting in France, who were members of it became so atro- to give force to the representations of this cious as to shock those who had at first country, and to throw its whole weight been disposed to think favourably of them into the scale with effect. --when, having got the person of the king He should not have gone so far into and others of the royal family into their the history of these proceedings, but for possession, the catastrophe which ensued what had occurred on a former night. was but too distinctly foreseen; and no Having gone so far, it might now be ne doubt was entertained of their intentions cessary for him to go still farther, to com. to sacrifice them--then, all men whose pare the circumstances of the interference minds deserved any consideration, were which had been determined on then, with shocked at the lengths to which the revo- those under which a similar interference lutionists were going, and the opponents was called for now. Those for whom he of ministers were unanimous in their exer- now wished this country to interest itself tions to stop the evil which they all de- were suffering patriots and our allies. plored. It was then that Mr. Fox had They were now oppressed, for having come down to the House with his friends, struggled against the former oppressors of and vindicated the course which he had their country. The king, the queen, and thought it his duty to pursue; he denied the royal family of France, though in a the propriety of lord Gower's recall, or deplorable state-a state which might well rather he questioned the necessity of it, call forth sympathy-were still, unlike the but he strongly expressed those feelings Spanish patriots, wholly unconnected with of horror and indignation with which the this country. They had no elaim on us conduct of the revolutionists had inspired from any bond of union which had sub him. He, on that occasion, argued, that sisted between the two parties. Having the recall of our ambassador, no one hav- been led to speak of precedents, he would ing been appointed in his place as an ac. adduce one or two more, that would bear credited minister from this country, must equally on the case in point. He would prove fatal to the cause of the royal family not go back to the period when queen Elizaof France. If we had kept our ambassa- beth interfered in behalf of the protestants dor, he contended, it would have been in in the Low Countries, nor would he dwell our power to interpose our good offices in on the steps which were afterwards taken behalf of the unfortunate monarch, and on the part of this country, to procure have given weight to the declarations of some amelioration of the situation of the England, which might have produced a Huguenots. These, as well as the efforts strong feeling among the people, and made by Oliver Cromwell in favour of the which would probably even have had some persecuted Protestants, must be fresh in effect on the convention. In this spirit, the memory of the House, and these would Mr. Fox proposed that a motion should abundantly bear him out in making the be made, the objcct of which was to afford motion with which he purposed to con the House an opportunity of expressing clude. But there was one better than all those feelings of indignation and sorrow these-which it was impossible to get which necessarily grew out of the events over--he alluded to tke addresses unanie which had recently occurred. This, it mously voted on the subject of the fowas hoped, might operate in favour of the reign slave trade some years back. Both royal family, and deter the persecutors Houses had concurred in doing this: and froin the consummation of their guilt. A if there was one point more delicate than motion for this purpose was made by Mr. another to be touched upon in our diplow matic transactions with Spain, it was her envoy of the Junta, receiving his instruccolonies. When Oliver Cromwell, at the tions from that body, which exercised the height of his prosperity and power at- functions of government as representatives tempted an interposition with Spain against of the people of Spain. By that treaty, the Inquisition, he was answered by the formally ratified, this country solemnly Spanish minister, that the king his master bound itself never to make peace with had two eyes; one was the Inquisition, France to the surrender of the royal rights and the other was the Spanish colonies. of Ferdinand, or of whatever prince the To which Oliver Cromwell answered, with Spanish nation might choose as his suca vigour that might well be imitated in cessor: on the other hand, the existing the present times, “ Then I must trouble government of Spain stipulated that hostiyour master to put both his eyes out.” lities against France should never be terIndeed, one might just as safely speak of minated but with the consent of the allies, an application to Spain to relieve the lot without separation of the interests of Spain of the poor native Indians who work the and England. · Affairs continued upon mines of South America, as to request her this footing for some time, with various to put an end to her share of the traffic in fortune to the arms of the contending slaves. To ask Spain and Portugal to powers, when a negociation was entered abandon the abominable slave trade, would into by marquis Wellesley, then British touch them in almost as tender a point minister appointed to attend the Junta. as it would be with ourselves, if the courts To the documents that were prepared in of Spain and Portugal were to send a consequence, and which had been subsemission to this country for the relief of quently published, it was not necessary to their suffering Roman Catholic brethren recall the attention of the House at length; in Ireland. It would touch pretty much probably they were still fresh in the rein the same place. Yet, so strong were collection of many, for he would venture our feelings in behalf of that great and good to affirm, that they formed one of the cause of religion and policy, for which we most memorable specimens of compreourselves had made some sacrifices, and hensive views, of address and ability in had induced others to do the same, negociation, of eloquence of expression, that the House voted addresses to the and of ingenuity of reasoning, in the throne on the subject unanimously. He history of diplomacy: they recommended hoped that these addresses had been acted a system of enlarged and enlightened upon in their true spirit and meaning. policy to the people of Spain, which Indeed, ministers had certainly shown that justly demanded a warm and sincere trithey had in several instances acted so. bute to the abilities and comprehension Those who thought fit to deny the right of the mind of the marquis Wellesleyor the policy of our interference altoge- qualities not always found among the ther, must, he presumed, undertake to statesmen of our day. distinguish between the various cases he What, he would ask, wasthe great object had cited. The cases, for instance, of of the able conductor of that negotiation? the king and royal family of France in It might be stated almost in a single word 1792, with whom we had no political con- -call a cortes. The noble marquis was nexion, and of the applications on behalf not satisfied that the interests of the people of the negroes, merely on the ground of of Spain should be confided to party and humanity for fellow-men, must be shown petty representation-a representation un to be distinct and different from an inter known to the Spanish constitution, and position in behalf of those whose assist deserving to continue unknown. 66 Call a ance we received during the war, with cortes,” was his wise and urgent recomwhom we treated, who jointly with us re- mendation. “ Do not be contented with stored the monarchy, and who were now less than a full and fair representation of oppressed. Let it be shown how we were the whole people. Call a cortes legally to now so differently situated. It would be take into its hands the reins of govern. in the recollection of the House, that in ment, and to carry into effect reforms the year 1809 (for it was unnecessary to that are equally indispensable.” The refer to earlier dates) a treaty was con. earnest recommendations of the marquis cluded by this government with admiral Wellesley produced the proper effect, and Apodaca, the minister commissioned from only a few months were allowed to elapse the authorities of Spain, nominally the before the cortes was called, and a reambassador of Ferdinand 7, but in fact the gency was soon afterwards appointed.

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