sent pressing occasion, during a session rized by the circumstances of the case, in which money affairs must become one when he insinuated, that because the quesof the most important duties of parlia- tions which had been put to his majesty's ment-a duty paramount indeed to every government were unanswered, that thereother? The House had been told from fore his majesty's government were emthe throne, that it was the intention of ployed, not merely in augmenting the his majesty's government to use every salaries of public officers, but in contemmeans of diminishing the public expendi- plating the further augmentation of others. ture. From day to day, however, parlia. It was curious enough, however, to obment witnessed the increase of the salaries serve, that the hon. gentlemen opposite of public officers, during a period of peace, were not disappointed at receiving no reand when the low prices of every article plies to their questions. On the contrary, of necessary consumplion rendered such they seemed to expect this; for they were augmentation less than ever necessary. | all prepared with written motions as subHe would distinctly state the course stitutes. which he should feel it his duty to pursue Mr. Tierney observed, that the inconon this subject; and he would do so by venience of the course which had beer an instance. If he were to hear that the adopted by ministers was now apparent. treasury had already increased the salaries His hon. and learned friend's experience of the officers of the tax board, he would of parliament had been comparatively make a motion for a return stating the short. He (Mr. Tierney) had bad the fact. But if, on the other hand, he were misfortune of having sat in that House to hear that the salaries of the officers of since the year 1789–he called it a misthe tax-board having already been in. fortune, because it proved that he was so creased, the commissioners of stamps many years older than his hon. and learned were applying for a similar augmentation, friend [A laugh!]. During the whole of and that it was in contemplation to give that period, he had never heard any miit them, he would not hesitate to take the nister, from Mr. Pitt in the plenitude of liberty of asking the right hon. gentleman his power, downwards, hesitate to state opposite what were the intentions of his whether government had taken such steps majesty's government on the subject. as those respecting which his majesty's

Lord Castlereagh again róse; but in present ministers had been so properly consequence of a loud cry of “ Spoke! questioned. The House would see the spoke!” his lordship sat down.

consequence

of a strict adherence to parMr. Vesey Fitzgerald said, that he had liamentary usage. Both parties got heated. hoped the hon. gentlemen opposite would The right hon. gentleman who spoke last have endeavoured to redeem their cha- talked of his hon. and learned friend, and racter, by allowing his noble friend, who those who acted with him, redeeming their had shown his readiness on the occasion, character. They had lost no character. to reply to the hon. and learned gentle His hon. and learned friend was perfectly man. After the language which had been right in calling the noble lord to order, used by that hon. and learned gentleman, when he attempted to speak twice. He he was persuaded he would be the last man had a right to say to the noble lord, “ If to prevent his noble friend from being you will not answer our questions, then heard. If ever there had been an occa- you shall not speak twice on the same sion on which the strict usage of the motion. If you enforce the strict usage House might with propriety be departed of parliament, we will enforce the strict from, it was surely the present, in which usage of parliament too." His hon. and his noble friend had been accused of using learned friend had said, that the noble language taunting and disrespectful to- lord's refusal to proceed must arise from wards hon. members. In making this some motives which he did not choose to charge, the hon. and learned gentleman, communicate. He (Mr. Tierney) becontrary to all the orders and precedents lieved so too ; and he believed them to be of the House, had alluded, not alone to very wrong motives. With respect to the an argument used in a former debate, but chancellor of the exchequer, he was afraid to the express terms in which that argu- that that right hon. gentleman had been ment had been couched. In the course in bad company lately; or, he was perof his speech the hon. and learned gentle- suaded that he would not have conducted man, notwithstanding the accuracy of his himself as he had done on this occasion. mind, had drawn au inference unautho-. He was anxious to impress on the House the inconvenience attendant on the re- a return stating, according to the direcfusal to answer questions, by making a tions of an act of parliament, what inmotion. This would occupy some of the crease or diminution of salaries has taken time of the House, for as he was not place, can be returned to this House, disbound to write the motion himself, he tinguishing each of the offices."--The would desire the clerk to take it down.- motion was agreed to. Mr. Tierney proceeded slowly to dictate Mr. Tierney. I have another motion to to the clerk at the table, pausing every make; and as it would be irregular for me three or four words, in a way which ex- to write it myself, I must again apply to cited the general risibility of the House: the clerk (A laugh]. -" That there be laid before the House The Speaker observed, that for the sake

an account showing how of the convenience of the House, it was much sooner than the 25th of March usual for hon. members to write down

it is practicable to make the their own motions, unless they laboured returns -"

under some infirmity which prevented Here the Speaker interposing, observed, them from doing so; in which case they that there was already a motion before the received the assistance of the clerk. House.

Mr. Tierney. The infirmity of the hon. Mr. Tierney. “ Oh! then, Sir, the gentlemen on the other side of the House clerk can scratch out what he has written, is, that they are dumb [A laugh]. Sir, and begin afresh as soon as the motion I move, “ That there be laid before this before the House shall be disposed of.” House, a return showing the number of [A laugh!].

men borne and mustered in the different Lord Milton contended, that it was fair garrisons abroad, from the year 1786 to to conclude, from the conduct of his ma- the year 1791 inclusive, made up to the jesty's ministers, that it was in their con- 25th of December, distinguishing each templation to make the augmentation of year and the different garrisons.” salaries which had been alluded to. Agreed to.

Sir John Newport, to prove that a mo- Sir Robert Heron said, that notwithtion would not always produce the infor- standing what had occurred that evening, mation required, stated the circumstances he would take the liberty of asking the of a motion for an address to the Prince noble lord a question, the circumstances Regent, made on the 20th of April last, attendant on which were so different from and renewed in May, which had not been those belonging to any other which had complied with, although the information been proposed, that he was not without it required might have been produced in hope that the noble lord would favour a single day.

him with a reply. He could assure the The motion was acceded to.

right hon. gentleman, the late chancellor Mr. Tierney then proceeded to make of the exchequer for Ireland, that he so his motion, the object of which was to little anticipated a refusal from the noble ascertain whether or not it was practicable lord, that he was not one of those who to lay before the House, at an earlier were prepared for the alternative by havperiod than the 25th of March, the ac- ing a motion ready written. The affair count of the increase or diminution that had was simply this: it had been strongly taken place in the salaries of public offi- rumoured that the British ambassador

He would have put this plain ques- he could not say at the court of Lisbon, tion to the right hon. gentleman, had it for court there was none- :-but the British been practicable to obtain an answer from ambassador at Lisbon had been recalled, him; and if that were practicable, he had and that a successor had been appointed. no doubt that the answer would have been What he wished to ask the poble lord was, in the usual terms, namely, that such a whether, if such a recall had taken place, return could be made in part, but not al- the individual appointed was to enjoy the together. As it was, however, he had no same emoluments as the late ambassador ? resource but to apply to the clerk. Mr. Lord Castlereagh replied, that the misTierney then dictated to the clerk the sion of the late ambassador to Portugal following motion :-“ That there be laid had terminated a considerable time ago; before the House an account, showing, as soon, indeed, as it was ascertained that according to the best judgment of the the prince regent of that country did not officers in the different public departments, mean to return to his European dominions. how much sooner than the 25th of March With respect to the latter part of the hon.

cers.

a

baronet's inquiry, all he had to say was, Mr. Tierney wished to know whether that no appointment of an individual had the expense of the monument, like that of taken place, either as ambassador or as the allowance, had proceeded from the minister of legation.

royal privy purse?

Lord Castlereagh replied, that the exCARDINAL York.] Mr. Ponsonby, pense had been paid out of the surplus of adverting to a statement made in the the contribution by the French goverrHouse at a late hour last night, relative to ment, for the removal from Paris to Rome a monument erected at Rome to the late of the statues which belonged to that city, cardinal York, wished to know whether or not such a monument had been erected; ADDRESS UPON THE TREATIES witų and, if it had, by whom it had been or- FOREIGN Powers-ADJOURNED DEdered, and who was to defray the expense BATE.] On the order of the day for reof it?

suming the adjourned debate upon the Lord Castlereagh replied, that he had amendment which was yesterday proposed no difficulty in answering the questions of by lord Milton to be made to the Address the right hon. gentleman. The fact was upon the Treaties, &c. with Foreiga as the right hon. gentleman supposed. Powers, The individual alluded to, the last branch Mr. Law rose and observed, that he of the unfortunate family from which he had always considered it to be a fundadescended, had long been an object of his mental principle of the policy of this 'majesty's bounty, Stripped and plun- country, to view France in the light of a dered by the French, cardinal York had great maritime and commercial nation, not been considered as forfeiting his claim Such was the principle adopted by the to his Majesty's generosity by his belong- greatest English statesmen-a principle ing to a family which the ancestors of his which, it appeared to him, had been lost majesty had so justly and properly suc- sight of, in concluding the treaties which ceeded on the throne of these realms. were now the subject of discussion. In This generosity on the part of the king exanining the treaties which had been created an indelible gratitude on the mind laid on their table, however great their of the unfortunate cardinal; and by his lustre might appear, however high our will he directed some interesting family military reputation might seem to stand, documents, together with the collar of he hoped, if the House, on the perusal of the garter which he possessed, should be them, saw that any of their stipulations sent to the Prince Regent as a memorial affected the constitutional liberties of the of his respect. This had accordingly been country, or her maritime interests, that done, the executor of the cardinal, ac- they would not be prevented, by the companied these bequests with a request dangerous illusion of inilitary glory, from that his royal highness would assist him marking their sense of such stipulations. in the erection of a monument to the de- That France was formerly viewed in the ceased cardinal. Under all the circum- light he had mentioned, would be clearly stances of the case his royal highness, in perceived by a recurrence to our history. that spirit of liberality which did honour So strongly was that feeling impressed on to him, acquiesced in that request, and in the minds of ministers at other periods, consequence paid to the cardinal's exe- that, on every maritime war with France, cutor the sum required to assist him in this country had always raised against her the erection of the monument.

a continental enemy, in order to distract Mr. Ponsonby said, that every man her attention--to compel her to keep up must entertain a high sense of the gracious a great army, and thus neglect her combounty which had been shown by his Ma- mercial interests ; by which means a better jesty towards the late cardinal. The way opportunity was given to us to effect the in which the subsequent transaction had ruin of ber maritime affairs. The Nether. been described by the noble lord, evinced lands were always considered nccessary to it to be a transaction very different from the success of such projects; and he rewhat the distinct erection of a monument gretted, that, in the present instance, the by his royal highness the Prince Regent interests of the Netherlands had been to a branch of the House of Stuart would neglected, and, with them, our commer. have been. If it had not been so he should cial interests. They had been called on have felt it his duty to institute a parlia- to admire the annexation of Belgium to mentary inquiry into the subject.

Holland, as

a master-piece of policy. But, so far from being pleased with that career. It was evident that our connecannexation, it appeared to him to be preg- tion with the kingdom of the Netherlands nant with danger-since, by that means, was necessary to our commercial relations the Netherlands were deprived of their with the continent. Now, the kingdom great barrier against the power of France. of the Netherlands could not defend itself. If the military establishment of the Ne- That, therefore, must be done, which was therlands amounted, in time of war, to done-We must have two peace establish100,000 men, in time of peace it would ments, one for the Netherlands, and one not exceed 50,000; and, if eighteen for- for this country. Taking this view of the tresses were to be garrisoned by that state, ill effects which the junction of Belgium it was clear that they would require the with Holland must inevitably produce, he whole of these troops, not leaving a single regretted that the allies had not imposed, regiment to take the field, if necessity re- as they could have imposed on France, quired it. The consequence must be, certain territorial cessions which would that, should the Netherlands be invaded, have effectually secured the peace and Great Britain must defend them. Austria tranquillity of Europe. Many errors were would not lend her forces for that purpose; observable in the proceedings of Conneither was it to be supposed that Prussia gress; but the batile of Waterloo made would grant her assistance. Under ordi. us arbiters in our own cause, and we nary circumstances, the Prussian cabinet should, by the treaty of Paris, have rectiwould be disposed to adopt a very diffe-fied the faults which had preceded it. A rent line of policy. At the present mo. general league had been made amongst ment, when a sense of danger had united the great powers of Europe to prevent the various potentates of the continent, France from indulging in ambitious views, Prussia might interpose to prevent the and that intention should have been carsubjugation of the Netherlands by France. ried into complete effect. They were But, when that sense of danger ceased to told, that the dismemberment of France exist, she would probably pursue a con

would have been impossible that the altrary course. When the House recol- lies were all opposed to it. He believed, lected the transactions between Prussia that no such idea was ever entertained. and France, with respect to Hanover- The cession of the Netherlands, it was when they recollected that Hanover had said, would have been useless. So it un been given up to Prussia-he thought they doubtedly would, if it were not coupled must perceive, that they might look in with other cessions. It was asked, “ If vain for the assistance of Prussia, should you proceeded on this principle of cession such a state of things arise as he had where would you stop ? You would find it alluded to. The House were called difficult to point out the particular cession upon to believe, that, by the occupation at which it would be proper to pause. of certain fortresses, all danger was The hon. gentleman could not see this removed from the Netherlands. Now, in difficulty. He, for one, would be perconsidering the usefulness of fortresses, fectly content, if Alsace had been given three points were to be examined. First, to Austria to the south of Germany, the the distance of those fortresses from the line of the river Rhine-to Prussia, the line of an enemy's operation. Second, territory immediately in front of that the extent of their garrisons. And, third, which she at present possessed—and to what proportion they bore to the force the Netherlands, the department du Nord, which the enemy bad in the field. When Such a disposition of territory would have the army of an enemy amounted to 25,000 secured the permanent tranquillity of men, and the force of a garrison was 4 or Europe. It was asserted, that, by the 5,000, a fortress thus guarded might pro- treaty of Paris, this country procured full duce some effect on the general success of indemnity for the past, and perfect secu. the war.

But when armies were swelled rity for the future. Now, what indemnity to 150,000 men, then such fortresses lost had they received for twenty years of their importance. The frontiers of the war—for burthensome and oppressive tax. Netherlands were provided with 18 foration--for an impaired constitution ? they tresses, but they could not stand against were to get a paltry pecuniary recomso immense a force. When armies were pense-not so much as the income tax, at 80 prodigiously increased, only great for five per cent. would produce. This was tresses, containing armies rather than gar- the indemnity they received. But other risons, could successfully oppose their states received indemnities of a different

description. With respect to the security | despair and madness, which no cession for the future, there was no part of the that might have been demanded could treaty which appeared to hiin more ob- have rendered worse. There was a menjectionable. A foreign force of 150,000 tal alienation amongst the people of that men was to be kept up in France. This country, which could not have been made measure must necessarily lacerate the greater by any measure which the allied feelings of the French, and fill their minds powers might have conceived it necessary with hatred against those powers who in- to enforce. Was it to be imagined, after Hicted so great a disgrace on them. When France had been stripped of all the terriAustria, Russia, and Prussia were obliged tories which a long course of successful to withdraw their forces, either to guard warfare had possessed her of, that the the new dominions which had been ceded feelings and sympathies of her population to them, or to embark in any project of would have been suddenly aroused, if the ambition, then would the French nation cession of a small portion of her territory rise in arms, terrible to the rest of Europe. were demanded ? especially, when a hosIrritated by the injuries and insults they tile force of 1,500,000 men was arrayed had received, they would rise and demand upon her soil. He firmly believed, that a satisfaction from those who had pressed feeling of delicacy towards the reigning them down. Who, then, would lie most family was the reason which induced the open to their attacks? this country-- allies not to make the demand. The aswhich would be called on to defend the cendancy which a great northern potenNetherlands—a state that might almost be tate (the emperor of Russia) had gained considered its own property. Louis 14th, over the mind of a neighbouring sovereign when convinced that his designs upon (the emperor of Austria), threw still farSpain would succeed, had emphatically ther light on this circumstance. One of said, “ the Pyrenees are removed ;” and the most important difficulties to be surthe ministers of this country, speaking of mounted at the congress of Vienna was our connexion with the Netherlands, the effect of the influence to which he might now observe-" the sea which once had alluded. And it was not a little exdivided us from that state has ceased to traordinary, if some influence had not exist.” He recollected a military officer, been exerted, that those cessions, on when speaking on this subject, denomi- which the whole public mind of Prussia nated the kingdom of the Netherlands and and of Austria were fixed, had not been Hanover the great military depôt of this demanded. Had they been made, Austria country. Holland, he observed, was the and Prussia would have been the efficient citadel

, and the Netherlands and Hanover guardians of the greatness of Germany, the out-works. With respect to the con- by their imposing situation on the eastern stitution which had been given to France, frontier of France. With respect to the he was unwilling to make many remarks doctrine of legitimacy he would say little. on it. The House was told, that, if the The legitimacy of a sovereign, resting on cessions he had spoken of were demanded, the laws and constitution of a country, he they would not have been granted-it did not conceive objectionable; but there would have been an insult to Louis 18th was a great difference between that, and which he would not have borne. Now, the legitimacy of a prince who was forced he could not believe that Louis 18th would on a people. He hailed the first as knit. have refused what Louis 14th had offered to ting the people together in a bond of concede.. Was it to be supposed that union-as tending to expand the best Louis 18th, placed on the throne by the feelings of the human heart; but the allies-supported by them-reigning by second he looked upon with abhorrence, their sufferance-would refuse to give up as the greatest misfortune that could be (all Europe, as it was called, being at the visited on the human race-as tending to gates of Paris) the provinces which had excite, in the breasts of princes, more bad been spoken of? he believed the fact was, passions than those to the influence of that the allies were afraid to push their which their situation exposed them-as demands, lest there should be a re-action giving impunity to ambition-as favouring amongst the French people, which might designs against their country-as leading overturn the government that had been to immoral excesses-as encouraging imposed on them. But, in his opinion, every thing which a good government the insults which had been heaped on would control, and which a bad govern. them, had driven them to m state of ment was never without. [Hear, hear!]