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considerable one certainly subsisted upon | the question of the West Indies, though The was satisfied, that when the hon. gentleman viewed the matter with more deliberation, that diversity would cease. As to Jamaica, the hon. gentleman had totally discarded that colony out of his cal culation; but he wished to observe that it was a mistake to suppose that 4,000 men were to be employed exclusively for Jamaica. Out of those 4,000, there were 500 employed for Honduras, and therefore the real force at Jamaica amounted only to 3,500. With respect to the West India service, it should be considered how sudden the casualties were in that climate, and that a fever might consume from 800 to 1,000 men, before any relief could possibly be sent out from this country. But what was the state of the West Indian army now, as compared with that of 1792, setting Jamaica aside? It was proposed by his majesty's government to vote 9,500 men for the garrisoning those colonies, and if 3,000 were deducted from that number, there would remain only 6,500. In 1792, the force in the West Indies amounted to 4,800, so that there would be an increase of only 1,700, applicable to the existing exigencies in that quarter. Was it possible, however, that his hon. friend should consider it a safe line of policy, to garrison the six additional colonies of Trinidad, Tobago, St. Lucie, Demerara, Essequibo, and Berbice, with only 1,700 men? He was confident that such an idea never entered his mind; and therefore it was evident he could not stand upon his own principle, as he would not venture, under those circumstances, to recommend to government so considerable a reduction. He must beg leave | also to deny that the situation of St. Domingo bore only upon Jamaica. He was prepared to contend, that such an independent black empire as was now established in St. Domingo, was calculated to affect the whole hemisphere of the West Indies in its moral and political condition. -With respect to other savings that had been recommended, he must again press upon the consideration of the House, that the present establishments were not proposed by government as permanent ones. They applied only to this present nt year, and to that state of things which existed in many of the colonies, and which rendered it necessary that such a system of additional precautions should be adopted. The proposed reduction in the home esta

blishments, however, he considered as untenable at present, and that in the West Indies was not only unsafe, but absolutely impracticable. In another year, he was perfectly aware, that many savings might take place, to the extent, perhaps, of 4 or 5,000 men, in our colonial garrisons; nor would that be the greatest possible saving, because Ireland held out a prospect of a still more considerable one. He admitted also, that in the Mauritius, at Ceylon, and in the Mediterranean, there might be reductions in the future estimates submitted to the House. What he contended for was, that the amount of force proposed for the present year was calculated upon the absolute necessities of the country, and that consequently such reductions as had been suggested were impossible. The House, he was sure, would feel that it was not pledged to vote the 99,000 men another year, because they had supported the government in granting that force now. At the same time, he wished it to be distinctly understood, that he himself was not pledged to any reduction beyond that of 4 or 5,000 men, arguing, as he then did, upon the actual condition of our colonial possessions. It was material also, that the House should recollect, that when they voted 99,000 men, they did not in fact give that force to the government; they only gave to the government the faculty of raising it, which faculty was to be exerted under all those difficulties always attendant upon such measures. He apprehended that distinction had been lost sight of, and that the reductions proposed by some hon. members had a reference to the gross estimate of 99,000 men, and not to the effective force. - He should not detain the House any longer at present, because, although there had been observations made upon some other of the estimates, he thought it better to confine himself now to the larger and more important estimate, reserving, for the subsequent ones, those remarks which might be more appropriately made when they were before the committee. Before he sat down, however, he was anxious to press once more upon their attention, that in voting for the present establishment, parliament was in no manner pledged to an approval of similar establishments hereafter, unless, indeed, the hon. gentlemen opposite should be disposed to insist upon such a pledge, in the same way as had been attempted upon another question. They would un

The House then divided on an amend-
ment proposed by Mr. Stuart Wortley,
that from the proposed establishment of
99,000 men, there should be deducted
10,000. The numbers were :

Caulfield, hon. H.

Campbell, hon. J.

Campbell, gen.
Cavendish, lord G.

hon. H.

Cavendish, hon. C.

Cocks, hon. J. S.

Cocks, James

Dundas, hon. L.
Dundas, Charles
Duncannon, visc.

questionably be at liberty, in the ensuing | Coke, E.
year, to reduce the estimates in any mode
which might then seem expedient. He
had given the utmost attention to the
subject, and for the reasons which he had
stated, he could not, consistently with his
sense of duty, consent to any reduction.
He should certainly be most anxious to
conform to the feelings of the House and
of the country, and if it were only a
question of reducing 4 or 5,000 men, he
should be disposed to run a small, though
not an improvident risk, to accomplish
that object. He was satisfied, however,
that such a compliance as was required,
would be injurious to the most important
interests of the country, and therefore he
hoped he should not be considered as pre-
sumptuously adhering to his own opinion
against that of others, in supporting the

vote then before the committee.

Mr. Forbes, amidst loud cries of ques-
tion, succeeded in effecting a hearing. He
said he had but one short observation to
make, namely, that in a short time we
might probably find to our cost, that we
had too few soldiers in India, and too
many missionaries.

Douglas, W.

Dugdale, D.S.
Elliot, rt. hon. W.

Ellison, C.
Ebrington, visc.

Fane, J.

Finlay, Kirkman
Fitzgerald, lord W.
Fazakerley, J. N.

Fergusson, sir R.
Fitzroy, lord J.
Frank, F.

Fellowes, W. II.

Foley, Thomas

Fremantle, Wm.

Fynes, Henry

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Gordon, R.
Grenfell, Pascoe

Rancliffe, lord

I

Russell, lord G. W.

F

Guise, sir W.

Ramsden, J. C.

Grant, J. P.

Ridley, sir M.

I

Grosvenor, gen.

Romilly, sir S.

Horne, Wm.

Hammersley, H.

Rowley, sir W.

Smith, John

Hughes, W. L.

Smith, Abel

Hamilton, sir H. D. Smith, Samuel

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Hornby, E.

Smith, Wm.

Against it

202

Jervoise, S. S.

Smyth, J. H.

Majority against the Amendment --72

Knox, T.

Sebright, sir J.

Keck, G. A. L.

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At three o'clock on Thursday morning

the House adjourned.

Tremayne, J. H.

Lambton, J.

Tierney, rt. hon. G.

Lemon, sir W.
Lewis, Frankland

Wright, J. A.
Warre, J. A.

Lloyd, J. M.

Lloyd, sir E.
Leader, W.

Western, C. C.

Wharton, John

Williams, sir K.

Lockhart, J. I.
Lester, B. L.
Lyster, R.
Mundy, E. M.

Wynn, sir W. W.
Wynn, C.
Waldegrave, hon. cap.
Wilberforce, W.

Morland, S. B.

Wortley, S.A

S. A. S.

Macdonald, James

TELLER.

Markham, John

Calcraft, John

INDEX

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INDEX

TO VOL. XXXII.

INDEX TO DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS.

Address upon the Treaties with Foreign | Peace Establishment, 341, 422, 510.

Powers, 634.

Agricultural Distresses of Ireland, 632.

Austrian Loan, 1027.

Ceylon, 850.

Civil List, 1026.

Droits of the Crown, 507.

French Contributions, 507.

Ireland, Agricultural Distresses of, 632.

Pecuniary Sacrifices, 1027.

Pillory, Punishment of the, 828.

Prince Regent's Speech on Opening the Ses-
sion, 1.

Speech of the Prince Regent on Opening the
Session, 1.

State of the Nation, 802.

Subsidiary Treaties, 817.

Kinnaird, lord; Conduct of the French Go- Treaties with Foreign Powers, 311, 372, 634,
vernment towards, 369.

817.

INDEX TO DEBATES IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Address upon the Treaties with Foreign
Powers, 673, 748.

Agricultural Distresses of the Country, 326,

819.

Clerk of the Pleas in Ireland, 546, 670.
Convention of Paris, 345, 350, 423.
Court of Chancery; Committee to provide
Accommodation for, 571.

Crown Rents Bill, 629.

Annuities, Bill to restrain Grants of, 336.
Army Estimates, 841, 843, 909, 955, 1080, Droits of the Crown, 575.

1240.

Auction Rooms, Petition respecting, 574.
Austrian Loan, 539.

✔ Bank of England, 374, 458, 613.

Economy, 346, 541.

Elgin, Earl of; his Petition, 577, 823.
Ellenborough, Lord Chief Justice; Charges

against, 1145.

Blucher, Prince; his Answer to the Vote of Estimates for the Year, 345.
Thanks, 16.

Board of Taxes, 951.

Extents in Aid, 340.

Buckinghamshire, Earl of; his Sinecure Of Farming Stock Bill, 330.

fice, 331, 337.

Call of the House, 506.

Fees paid to Clerks of Judges in Scotland,

805.

Financial Exposition, 376.

Christian Treaty between Russia, Austria, France, Money paid by, to this Country, 575,

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French Contributions, 507, 575.

Grants of Annuities; Bill to restrain, 336.

Insolvent Debtors, 349.

Ionian Islands, 540.

Irish Farms Recovery Bill, 1025.

Irish Grand Juries Bill, 547.

Kennet and Avon Canal Bill, 737.

King's Bench Prison; State of, 327.

Portugal Trade, 540.
Prince Regent's Speech on opening the Ses
sion, 17, 66.

Prisons, State of the, 326.

Privately Stealing Bill, 630.

Property-tax, 64, 332, 433, 672,809, 818, 833,
875, 934, 1018, 1040, 1057, 1109, 1208.

Public Economy, 346, 541.

Salaries, Motion relating to Increase of, 738,

1021.

Liberty of the Subject, Bill for securing the, Sinecure Office of the late Earl of Bucking-

542.

Liverpool Canal Bill, 830.

hamshire, 331, 337.
Spain, Motion relating to, 578.

Supply, 310, 338, 376, 437.

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Tithes, 572.

Trafalgar, Monument for the Battle of, 311.

Treaties with Foreign Powers, $47, 673,748.
Treaty, Christian, between Russia, Austria,

and Prussia, 350.

Pall Mall, Improvements in, 576.

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Paris, Convention of, 345, 350, 423.

813, 815.

Peace Establishment, 437, 525, 576, 811, Weights and Measures Bill, 953.

Wellington, Duke of; his Answer to the Vote

Picton, Sir Thomas; Monument to, $22.
Pillory Abolition Bill, 803.

of Thanks, 16.

1

Poors-Rates, 831.

York, Cardinal, 747.

INDEX OF NAMES.-HOUSE OF LORDS,

King, Lord, 343, 344, 372, 373, 524, 1027.

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Holland, Lord, 12, 369, 372, 374,633, 664, Stanhope, Earl, 828.

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Acland, Sir Thomas Dyke, 17, 820, 321, 322, Atkins, Alderman John, 417.

836, 837.

Addington, John Hiley, 326, 899.

Babington, Thomas, 828, 835, 1054, 1216.
Bankes, Henry, 326, 499, 617, 769, 825,

1091.

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Bourne, Sturges, 340.

Brand, Thomas, 29, 413, 875, 885.

Brougham, Henry, 37; 66, 326, 331, 332, 337,
338, 347, 349, 350, 363, 364, 391, 457, 547,
578, 609, 612, 624, 628, 670, 671, 672, 738,
739, 740, 807, 809, 820, 821, 827, 833,855,
878, 899, 944, 951, 953, 977, 1021, 1023,
1045, 1050, 1053, 1055, 1056, 1077, 1115,
1116, 1117, 1137, 1217, 1220, 1233, 1235.

Brydges, Sir Egerton, 1052, 1053, 1144.

Burdett, Sir Francis, 835, 888, 892, 893,937,

1001.

Burrell, Sir Charles, 819, 1021, 1112.
Butterworth, Joseph, 939.

Calvert, Charles, 1051, 1053, 1057.
Calcraft, John, 886, 1050, 1240.
Cartwright, W. R., 833, 837, 1228.

Castlereagh, Lord, 47, 310, 311, 317, 324,
325, 326, 331, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 350,
356,364, 366, 417, 450, 457, 504, 507, 539,

540, 541, 566, 568, 572, 593, 612, 626, 628,

629, 673, 740, 741, 746, 747, 748, 793, 803,
809, 874, 1096, 1120, 1123, 1142, 1143,
1218, 1227, 1234, 1235, 1236, 1257.

Chancellor of the Exchequer (Right Hon.
Nicholas Vansittart) 34, 65, 376, 440, 457,
494, 495, 569, 570, 571, 614, 622, 623, 624,
627, 672, 738, 739, 821, 823, 828, 834, 835,
879, 887, 895, 952, 953, 954, 1010, 1059,
1080, 1081, 1126, 1137, 1141, 1142, 1143,
1144, 1214, 1221.

Clarke, Sir George, 933, 1209.
Cochrane, Lord, 1014, 1145, 1207.
Coke, T. W., 55, 1047.

Compton, Lord, 834, 950.

Congreve, Sir William, 1056.

Courtenay, W., 556.

Croker, J. W. 828.

Curtis, Sir William, 434, 1049.

Davenport, D., 1019.

Davis, Hart, 349, 833.

Dickenson, W., 737, 1019, 1062.
Don, Sir Alexander, 1114.

Douglas, F. S. N., 753.

Duigenan, Patrick, 556.

Dundas, Charles, 737, 834.

Dundas, William, 316, 319, 806, 809, 1109,
1116, 1118.

Ebrington, Lord, 893, 1046.
Elliot, William, 63, 763.

Fazakerly, N., 711.
Fergusson, Sir R. 1024.
Finlay, Kirkman, 1047, 1053, 1213.
Flood, Sir Frederick, 555, 557, 932.
Fitzgerald, Vesey, 743, 978, 1238.
Foley, T., 1068, 1080.
Folkestone, Viscount, 898, 885, 960.

Forbes, Charles, 321, 322, 568, 570, 623, 947,
1052, 1053, 1142, 1263.

Fremantle, W. H., 900, 915, 949, 1061.
Garrow, Sir William, see Attorney General.

Gascoyne, I., 833, 1076.
Geary, Sir William, 1208.
Gooch, T., 802, 1069.

Gordon, R., 540, 826, 894, 1053.
Goulburn, Henry, 625, 1044, 1251.
Grant, Charles, jun., 783, 1118.
Grant, J. P. 909, 936, 1110.

Hammersley, Hugh, 1043.

Heathcote, Sir Gilbert, 60, 340, 834, 1052,

Heron, Sir Robert, 324, 346, 408, 624, 627,

746,804, 919, 936.
Hope, Sir Alexander, 1119.
Horner, Francis, 53, 317, 331, 338, 367, 439,
548, 556, 741, 770, 807, 1019, 1121, 1136,

Houblon, J. A., 1234.
Hurst, R., 1111.
Huskisson, William, 346, 576, 577,629, 1236.

Jones, J. 417, 822, 823, 934.

Knatchbull, Sir E., 1058, 1141.

Клох, Т., 553, 956.

Lacon, E. K., 818.

Lambton, J. G., 332, 671, 840, 1064, 1209.

Langton, Gore, 835, 1063.

Lascelles, Lord, 830, 1065.

Law, E., 327, 330, 347, 562, 564, 748, 957,

Grenfell, Pascoe, 410, 458, 494, 506, 615, 619,

1042, 1057.

1211, 1230, 1231.

1208.

977.

Lewis, Frankland, 410, 846.

Lockhart, John, 69, 330, 337, 737, 940, 1020,
1041, 1231.

Long, Charles, 322, 822, 827.

Lushington, S. R., 339, 345, 1045, 1050,
1051, 1053.

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