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Senator BRIDGES. That the joint committee shall issue a formal report to include conclusions on the issues involved or

Senator GREEN. I cannot hear you.

Senator BRIDGES. That the joint committee shall issue a formal report to include conclusions, and that this report be transmitted to the Senate, together with the Russell declaration and the factual record of the hearings by September 1, 1951.

Senator GREEN. Did you say to include conclusions?
Chairman RUSSELL. Yes.

Senator BRIDGES. Yes.

Chairman RUSSELL. In other words, we go into the details of the issue, Senator, and we express conclusions and views on it. That is what it means. It is a question of whether or not you want to make a report in the ordinary sense of the term or whether you do not. Senator GREEN. That is the fundamental difference between that and the Saltonstall resolution.

The CLERK. Mr. George?
Chairman CONNALLY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Green?
Senator GREEN. No.

The CLERK. Mr. McMahon?
Senator MCMAHON. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Fulbright?
Chairman RUSSELL. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Sparkman?
Senator CONNALLY. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Gillette?
Senator GILLETTE. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Wiley?.

Senator WILEY. I pass. I do not quite understand the motion. I pass.

Chairman RUSSELL. Without objection, the Senator is excused from casting a vote on this question.

The CLERK. Mr. Smith?

Senator SMITH. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Hickenlooper?

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Lodge?

(No response.)

The CLERK. Mr. Tobey?

(No response.)

The CLERK. Mr. Brewster?

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman Connally?

Chairman CONNALLY. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Byrd?

Senator BYRD. No.

The CLERK, Mr. Johnson?

Senator JOHNSON. NO.

The CLERK. Mr. Kefauver?

Senator JOHNSON. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Hunt?

Senator HUNT. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Stennis?

Senator STENNIS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Long?
Senator LONG. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Bridges?
Senator BRIDGES. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Saltonstall?
Senator SALTONSTALL. No.
The CLERK. Mr. Morse?
Senator McMAHON. NO.
The CLERK. Mr. Knowland?
Senator KNOWLAND. Aye.
The CLERK. Mr. Cain?

Senator CAIN. Aye.

The CLERK. Mr. Flanders?

Senator FLANDERS. No.

The CLERK. Mr. Chairman Russell?

Chairman RUSSELL. No.

The CLERK. Senators recorded in the affirmative are Messrs. Hickenlooper, Brewster, Bridges, Knowland, and Cain.

Senators recorded in the negative are Messrs. George, Green, McMahon, Fulbright, Sparkman, Gillette, Smith, Mr. Chairman Connally, Mr. Byrd, Johnson, Kefauver, Hunt, Stennis, Long, Saltonstall, Morse, Flanders, and Chairman Russell.

Chairman RUSSELL. The question recurs to the motion of the Senator from Massachusetts.

Senator CAIN. I have a question, sir. Did the Senator from Massachusetts split his motion into two parts as had been suggested? Chairman RUSSELL. No, but I had not announced the vote formally, and I suppose I had better do that. On this motion, the Bridges substitute, the ayes are 5, and the nays are 18.

Senator GREEN. How many?

Chairman RUSSELL. Eighteen. The substitute is, therefore, lost. The question recurs to the motion of the Senator from Massachusetts.

Senator GREEN. May I in that connection ask whether he had decided to separate it or not?

Senator SALTONSTALL. On the question of filing the views in one volume?

Senator GREEN. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I would prefer not to. If the Senator from Rhode Island makes that as a motion to amend my motion and it is carried, of course, it prevails. I would prefer.

Senator GREEN. Then I will do that in that respect.

Senator FLANDERS. Will the motion as presented by the Senator from Massachusetts be read, please?

Chairman RUSSELL. Well, the motion is as follows: That the committees transmit and report to the Senate for its consideration the hearings and the records with their appendices; that the committee file no further report.

Senator SMITH. File what?

Chairman RUSSELL. File no further report; that no views or conclusions be stated as a majority or minority view, but that members be permitted before September 1 to file their views and conclusions

with the chairman, and that such views be gathered in one volume, and request be made of the Senate to publish the same.

Now, as I understand Senator Green's motion

Senator GREEN. I offer as an amendment that the last two lines be stricken out.

Chairman RUSSELL. The Senator from Rhode Island moves to strike "but that members be permitted before September 1 to file their views and conclusions with the chairman."

Senator GREEN. I have no objection to that.

Chairman RUSSELL. You move to strike "and that said views be gathered in one volume."

Senator GREEN. Yes.

Chairman RUSSELL. "And that request be made to publish the same. Senator GREEN. The idea is that that gives a sort of formal recognition to this controversy, which I think is undesirable from the point of view of the welfare of the country.

Senator BYRD. What would become of the views that are filed with the chairman?

Senator BRIDGES. They will be published individually.
Senator GREEN. I have no objection to that.

Senator BRIDGES. They would be a separate thing.

Senator GREEN. That just gives a volume of controversy to the public and may be misunderstood, especially abroad.

Chairman RUSSELL. In other words, you think they ought to be published separately, or are you opposed to publishing them at all? Senator GREEN. We should not publish them at all.

Chairman RUSSELL. That is what I thought. It would be discouraging to the fellow who submitted his views.

Senator GREEN. I would like the views of the chairman on this. It seems to me that the filing of this report ought to end the work of the committee, and that the committee goes out of existence.

Senator BYRD. Will you agree with the filing of them with the chairman, and including them in the appendices of the record? What would happen to them if they were not published?

Senator GREEN. That is it. I do not think that they ought to file them, and then there would not be a committee to file them with. Senator BYRD. If we passed a resolution to file them, and then we bury them

Senator GREEN. They can publish them themselves. I hope they will not.

Senator BYRD. It seems to me that if you include them in the appendix, which is already provided, they will be transmitted to the Senate.

Senator GREEN. I will change my amendment and make it that they are at liberty to file their views or publish their views; put it that way. Chairman CONNALLY. I object. I do not mind their publishing them and filing them; that is all right, but I do object to putting them in one volume, because, if you do that to all of them, it will be construed by a lot of people as if that was a minority report.

Senator BYRD. But you do not object to including them in the appendix.

Chairman RUSSELL. There will be more than one, I can assure you of that, Senator.

Chairman CONNALLY. I do not mind their being in the appendix, but as individual statements.

Senator BYRD. But a number of Senators could sign the same state

ment.

Chairman CONNALLY. I understand. The point I am making is that if you put them all in one volume, why, they will construe it as a minority report.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, I made that suggestion so as to be fair to every member of the committee, so that he can get the same opportunity and the same publicity, if you will, as every other member, whether he was one of 8 or 10 or whether he was an individual. Another argument for it is that if anybody wants to take the time and trouble-we will take the New York Times as an example or the Washington Post-they have got all the views together at one time and in one place, and that from the men who heard all the testimony and all the evidence, and they are not minority or majority views in any way, but it gives the different ideas of everybody who was responsible for hearing that evidence, in one place.

The other thing would be that each Member of the Senate will either file his report by making a speech on it, or if he wants to put it in the appendices it is better than not doing it at all.

Senator BYRD. If you put the views in the appendices, they are bound to be all together anyway.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I would rather have it in the appendices. Senator BYRD. It seems to me that is better than having a formal one volume.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I will accept Senator Byrd's amendment. Senator HICKENLOOPER. Just to clarify this thing, if several members of the committee as individuals desire to express the same identical views in a substantial report, does this motion mean that they have to publish just the same individual document in multiple publications? Chairman RUSSELL. Oh, no. The Chair will never construe it that

way.

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Let us say that if five or six or seven or eight or nine say, "I agree with this publication."

Senator SALTONSTALL.. Will the Senator yield?

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. It was my intent that those 8 or 10 men should be able to sign one report.

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Yes; that is what I understand.

Senator GREEN. That means, Mr. Chairman, there would be a majority report, a minority report, or, perhaps, several majority reports or several minority reports, and they will probably come down in the last analysis to one, a majority report, and a minority report, and I think that is very unfortunate.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I accept Senator Byrd's amendment.
Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Byrd?

Senator BYRD. Will the Senator accept this as an amendment? That the committee file no further report

Senator MCMAHON. A little louder, Senator Byrd.

Senator BYRD. That the committee file no further report after filing the hearings, and so forth; that no views or conclusions be stated as the majority or minority views, but that members-not individualsmembers can join together, I think, any way they please, and be

permitted before September 1 to file their views and conclusions with the chairman, and that said views be gathered in the appendices, which already is provided in the first clause to be published.

I cannot see how anyone could object to that, instead of having one volume which would have given undue emphasis.

Senator GILLETTE. Will the chairman state the question as it is modified so we will know what we are voting on?

Chairman RUSSELL. Do I understand this alters the text that you are undertaking to amend?

Senator GREEN. Will you read it again?

Chairman RUSSELL. That the committee transmit and report to the Senate for its information the hearings and the records with their appendices; that the committee file no further report; that no views or conclusions be stated as a majority or minority view or conclusions, but that members be permitted before September 1 to file views and conclusions with the chairman, and that said views be gathered in the appendices.

I think if you are going to change that it would be better to say "be printed in the appendices.

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Senator KNOWLAND. Mr. Chairman, I merely want the record to be clear on this situation. Of course, the appendix may not be published for some considerable period of time. I would not want it understood that either any individual Senator or any group of Senators who may desire to do so are in any way limited from expressing their views prior to that time.

Chairman RUSSELL. Oh, there is no restraint that this committee could or should undertake to place on any member.

Senator HUNT. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Hunt.

Senator HUNT. I should like to ask unanimous consent of the joint committee that in the formal report this motion, if it is carried, of Senator Saltonstall's be made a part of the report.

Chairman RUSSELL. All of today's hearings and all of the statements of the committee today will be printed in the final report. Senator HUNT. Mr. Chairman, I think you misunderstood my intentions. I mean in the formal report that is made to the Congress. Chairman RUSSELL. To the Senate

Senator HUNT. Senator Saltonstall's

Chairman RUSSELL. This will be the report that will accompany the hearings and the records, Senator.

Senator HUNT. I would like verbatim for the Senator's motion to be in the formal report that we give to the Congress.

Chairman RUSSELL. This the formal report.

Senator HUNT. You do not quite grasp what I have in mind. Senator BYRD. General Mudge says the appendix is already in galley

form.

Senator KNOWLAND. I have to catch a train, and I will leave my proxy with Senator Bridges. The only thing I wanted to be clear on was that the committee would not consider that any individual member or any group of Senators who desire to make their views known were limited from doing so awaiting the publication of the appendix. Senator MCMAHON. I wish to be heard on that, Mr. Chairman.

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