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that it was right to expose a pauper to be bandied about from one end of the kingdom to the other, upon an ex-parte adjudication, which was liable to be reversed; when all this cruelty, and all this expense, would be incurred for nothing: and when in case of appeal, whether the order was reversed or confirmed, the pauper would be called back again from the place to which he was removed, at best, in the character of a witness. But it was contended, that the machinery to effect this amendment was complex. He really doubted, if hon. members who made this accusation could have attentively read the Bill. There was no complexity in the machinery; there was not even novelty except in one clause, which was so far from being essential to his grand object, that it might be struck out without leaving the smallest chasm. Indeed, the clause alluded to, which gave occasion to all the arguments that had now been urged against the Bill, was not his own it had been inserted in his Bill of last year, at the instance of the learned member for Oxford (Mr. Lockbart), and adopted in substance, but a little simplified in its manner, in the present. This clause provided, that after a first examination into a pauper's settlement, justices should give notice to the parish where the pauper's settlement appeared to be, that they would proceed to an adjudication on a future day, in order to give such parish an opportunity of being heard in opposition to it, if they chose so to do. This provision appeared to sir E. to be salutary. It was now urged, that it would tend greatly to increase expenses, and to encourage litigation in a premature stage: that at tornies would be called into battle against attornies; and that witnesses would be brought from one end of the kingdom to another, to contend before magistrates in petty session, who would be bewildered by conflicting arguments, and after all make decisions which would be still liable to appeals, and expose the parties, at another great expense, to agitate the question over again at a quarter-sessions. The member for Essex (Mr. Western) was alarmed at still additional evils: he conceived that all this premature battle might end in the discovery that the parish, thus urged to contend at great trouble and cost, had nothing to do with the pauper; and that the settlement was in some third parish. But did the hon. gentleman forget that such a discovery would not have

been made but for that contest? And that if the parish had avoided the evils of this opposition, they must have had the greater evil of supporting the pauper himself, so erroneously thrown upon them, till they could get rid of him on appeal? But if it was the opinion of this House, that the evil of this clause was greater than the good; if it was fairly liable to the objec tions thus brought forward, surely it afforded no ground for condemning the whole Bill: it might be struck out in the committee, without the least affecting the unity or principle of the Bill. For his own part, he had no wish to adhere obstinately to it: he would willingly sacrifice it, rather than create even a doubt on the other parts. As to the latter, he implored the House again to cherish the great object he had in view. He pressed upon their attention the anomaly which the law, as it now stood, exhibited on a subject affecting the essential happiness of perhaps not less than one-third or onefourth of the whole population of England. On other points, even of the most trivial nature, no judgment could be obtained upon ex-parte statement, or ex-parte evidence; nor could any judgment be executed till after appeal, or till the time of appeal had expired.

But here, on a question, on which depended the well-being, the domestic comforts, the moral feelings, the power of independent livelihood, the very character of almost every poor person in the kingdom, and perhaps his posterity for generations, an ex-parte decision was made, probably on the most imperfect evidence, to be carried into instant execution! Upon that decision a pauper, his wife, and his children, were to be packed off like felons for transportation; lifted into a cart, and dragged away from their home, to be a mark for the finger of scorn, through half the villages and towns, perhaps from the eastern point of Kent to the Land's-End! Is this enormous evil still to go on, after it has once been brought under the consideration of Parliament? Are minor difficulties, if such exist, to stand in the way of an amendment, for which there is such an imperious call? Can little objections about machinery, even if real, much less if imaginary, stand in the way of an endeavour to take away injustice of so extensive a nature? But where are the obstacles? Is there any obstacle to the effecting the delay of an order of removal? Is there any machinery required for a

Paupers Removal Bill.

585] passive act-an act of omission? It could not be said, that this measure had been hurried through the House. The whole of it was involved in that Bill, which he had last year the honour to introduce; and which, after much discussion, had passed through every stage except the third reading; and which last step he had declined to move, merely because the House had arrived within two days of the termination of the session; when it was obvious, that if it passed here, it could not have time to go through the Lords.

There had been urged an argument in favour of the existing law, with regard to immediate removals, and which filled him with some surprise. It was said, that a parish to which a pauper was adjudged, ought not to be deprived of the benefit of ascertaining his identity by his presence among them. Could it be seriously contended, that any number of settlement cases turned on questions of identity? Nay, was it within probability, that a single instance of that kind could occur? How many scarce possible coincidences must there be to create such a case? A pauper, to effect this, must fix on some parish for his settlement, where he must first be aware that another of his own name had been at some time or other settled; and then invest himself in at least the colourable circumstances of that man's person and life! But were this question not only possible, but probable; can it be believed, that a parish would wish to purchase this benefit of examination, such as it is, at the expense of having a pauper and his family to support till they can get rid of him on appeal; when, according to the Bill now in discussion, all that intermediate burthen would be totally taken away from them! He once more, therefore, intreated the House, that if they admitted the principle of this Bill, they would allow it to be now read a second time; and if there were any objections to the clause, or the machinery, they might be argued, and altered in the committee.

Mr. Horner thought the hon. baronet deserved the respect and thanks of the House for the pains he had taken, and the unshaken assiduity with which he had given his mind to a measure of such vast importance to the community. It was therefore with great reluctance, that he felt himself compelled to differ with him as to the means which this Bill provided for effecting his purpose. He was much afraid that it would not answer the end

proposed. The machinery appeared to
him liable to great objections, inasmuch as
it seemed rather to encourage, than to
appease litigation: but if it really would
cut short litigation, it would only hasten
the time at which the pauper might be
removed; an event, which it seemed one
main object of the hon. mover to delay.
He should be most happy, if the great
amendment in view could be brought
about: but he really feared, that practi-
cable, means of effectuating the desired
object had not yet been devised. The
hon. member threw out a hint by which
he thought the object might in part at
least be effected, free from the difficulties
Mr. Lockhart was somewhat surprised
which struck him in the present Bill.
at the suggestion of the hon. member who
spoke last, because he himself had, in a
former parliament, brought in a bill con-
taining precisely the same plan as that
which the hon. member now proposed,
He himself
which had the misfortune to experience
his decided opposition to it; and the bill
was unfortunately thown out.
did not approve of all the machinery of
the present Bill. He thought a great
deal of evil and wasteful contest might
arise from the clause which gave oppor-
tunity to parishes to oppose adjudica-
tions in the first instance. But as he ap-
proved the principle of the Bill, he should
not oppose the second reading.

Mr. Whitbread had always been in
favour of bills to ameliorate the condition
of the poor. He had supported the hon.
baronet's Bill embracing similar objects
last year, and he should support this.
He must say that its machinery did not
appear to him as practicable as he could
wish; but he begged the hon. baronet not
to be discouraged: it was impossible but
that the agitation of such questions should
do a great deal of good. The public
mind was thus, step by step, drawn to a
due attention to objects which required
had not been so fortunate as to carry the
their continual deliberation. He himself
great measure which he proposed some
years ago with similar views: but he did
not repent of the attempt; nor did he
doubt that, though it failed, the very dis-
As to the great schemes of
cussion of it had produced important
benefits.
general revision which hon. members
talked of, and the arguments for delay
which they founded on them, he consi
dered them as nothing more than plausi
ble pretences, to get rid of a measure al

together. It was only by touching small parts at a time that we could hope gradually to amend a branch of the law so complicated, so wide, and involving so many conflicting interests. He should therefore certainly vote for the second reading of the Bill, thinking that if there were objections to its details, they could be best discussed and altered in the committee.

The House then divided: For the Second Reading, 55; Against it, 23: Majority in favour of the Bill, 32.

ARMY ESTIMATES.] The House having resolved itself into a committee of supply, to which the Army Estimates were referred,

Lord Palmerston said, he should merely state to the House, in a general way, the nature of the arrangements relative to the army. He had, in the first instance, made an estimate founded on the establishments at Christmas last, and then he had stated the augmentations which had been made since in consequence of the rupture with France; and the House would thus be enabled to see what increase had been made in consequence of the general state of our relations with France. There was, upon the whole, a decrease in our esta blishments of this year, compared with those of 1814, of 47,000 men, and 2,652,000l. of charge. The total amount of Land Forces at Christmas last was 199,252, for which the charge was 5,587,7061. for Great Britain, and 1,134,1731. for Ireland-in all 6,721,8801. But since the rupture with France, there had been an augmentation of 9,148 men, and 317,2191. of charge, leaving the balance of diminution in favour of the present year, of 47,000 men and 2,652,000l. of charge. On the Household troops there had been a reduction of 1200 men. The regiments of Cavalry were first reduced after the peace, on account of their great expense; each regiment was reduced to eight troops of 60 men each. The number of regiments of Infantry had been considerably reduced-24 second battalions had been entirely disbanded. The whole reduction arising from this, without considering the augmentation which had since taken place, amounted to 22,000 men. The next head, the Embodied Militia, could not be compared with the estimate of last year. With respect to the next head, the pay of General Officers not with regiments, this was

founded on the arrangements of last year, and could not be compared with former accounts. In the next head, of Staff and Garrisons, a reduction of 237,000l. had taken place, of which 98,000l. was for the Home Staff, and the remainder for the Foreign Staff. He would state the comparative amount of the Staff now, and as it stood the former year. The Staff of 1815 was less even after the late augmentation than in 1814, by an amount of 39 general officers.-The increase on the head of Pay for Supernumerary Officers, ran to 6,000l. The head of Half-pay and Military Allowances had experienced an increase of 38,000. This was partly owing to the number of reductions, and partly owing also to the augmentation in the rate of half-pay. In the head of Oat pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham hospitals, there had been an increase of 100,000l. arising partly from the disbanded second battalions, and partly from invalids. The Volunteer Corps had been diminished in expense 145,000l. The expense of the Local Militia was 27,6000l. less than in 1814. In the article of Foreign Corps there was a diminution of 10,000 men, and 383,000l. This arose principally from the disbanding four Foreign corps: the Brunswick infantry, which had gone to the service of the duke of Brunswick, Dillon's regiment, and the Chasseur battalion. In the Royal Military College there was an increase of 7,000l., but of this 6,000 was only a nominal increase. There had, however, been an actual increase of something more than 1,000l., of which 8801. was for a new building at Blackwater. In the Royal Military Asylum there had been a dimi nution of 3,000l. In the head of Retired Chaplains there had been a like reduction of 3,000l. arising chiefly from deaths. In the head of Medicines and Hospital expenses, there had been a diminution of 89,000l. on the estimate at last Christmas, but then there had since been an augmen tation of 50,000l. over that estimate, leaving a balance of 39,000l. The increase in the Compassionate List amounted to 17,000l. In the Commissariat Department of Ireland there was a total increase of 69,000l. On the Barrack estimate the saving was 208,000l. There were some other variations which it would not be necessary to go into at present. The augmentation in the Land Forces, since Christmas last, amounted in all to 9,148 men, and 384,000l. of charge. The

as he was apprehensive that if the half-pay was raised too much, it might deter those who had families from actual service. He wished to make a remark on the subject of officers' widows. It was the intention of the noble lord to put the widows of

augmentation to the Staff was 50,000l. Of this 6,000l. was for the Home Staff, and the remainder for the Foreign Staff. An additional major-general had been appointed on the home staff; the remainder consisted of medical officers, to be ready in case of any supply being wanted. A far-officers of the army on the same footing

as those of navy officers. But though the same increase had taken place in the case of both, they were by no means on the same footing, because the officers of the navy had received an addition to their pay, at a time when no addition took place in the case of the army. It was understood that lieutenant-colonels and majors were on the same rank with post-captains under three years standing. Now the widow of a post-captain received 80%, and the widow of a lieutenant-colonel and major only received 70l. The whole sum requisite to put them all on the same footing would be 1,200l. He saw nothing in the papers on the table respecting the Commissariat.

Lord Palmerston said, this was always the subject of a separate estimate.

ther sum of 50,000l. would be wanted for Medical Stores. It only remained for him to mention the head of Officers attached to the Portuguese Army. This arose from their being detached from their regiment, and placed on unattached pay. He would take this opportunity of stating, that there would be one additional charge, which he could not yet submit to Parliament. It was in contemplation to make to officers marching with their regiments on home stations, an allowance corresponding to that made to soldiers on the same station. This was considered but equitable, as the officers were at such times deprived of those economical advantages which they might possess in stationary quarters; and it was thought better to give them such an allowance than to make a small increase to their daily pay, as the relief General Gascoyne proceeded to observe, would thus come at the moment of the that the noble lord had not stated whepressure. On a general view, including ther the officers on half-pay on the Irish the augmentation since the change in our and English establishments were on the relations with France, there was a dimi same footing. He wished also to know nution in the estimates compared with by what act the poundage on the pay of those of last year, without including the officers was raised. He wished to know militia, which could not with propriety whether the Portuguese officers received be taken into the comparison, but merely pay both from England and Portugal. the land forces and foreign corps, of With respect to the half-pay which had 47,000 men, and 2,652,000l. charges. He been granted to the army, according to would not enter into further details, as it the noble lord's construction, it had been might be tedious to the House; but if limited to certain services. By this means any hon. member wished for further ina great many meritorious officers would formation, he should be happy in com- be excluded from it, contrary, as he was municating it. The noble lord concluded convinced, to the intention of the House. with moving his first resolution: viz. The services in the Peninsula were cer"That a number of Land Forces, not ex-tainly brilliant; but were those officers ceeding 199,767 men (exclusive of the men belonging to the regiments employed in the territorial possessions of the East India Company, the Foreign Corps in British pay, and the Embodied Militia), commissioned and non-commissioned officers included, be maintained for the service of the United Kingdom, from the 25th of December 1814 to the 24th of December 1815."

General Gascoyne said, it was his intention to have moved for an addition to the half-pay of officers; but from the alteration of affairs, in consequence of the war, he did not think it necessary now to bring forward any motion on the subject,

who had served in Egypt, America, and Flanders, to be precluded from the additional half-pay because they were not in the Peninsula? Many of them were on half-pay, not from their own choice. He wished therefore to move an additional allowance of 500l. to the widows of lieutenant-colonels, and of 700l. to the widows of majors.

Mr. Bennet wished to inquire into the expense of the Military College at Sandhurst. He had no objection to the establishment itself, but he had to the form which it seemed to assume, and which was calculated to give too much of a military tone to the character of the country.

Mr. Wilberforce thought the Military College highly beneficial to the country, from the instructive source of military education which it formed. It was surely essential that the officers in the service should have the opportunity of an extensive preliminary education.

Sir John Hope reprobated the general assertions in which Mr. Bennet had dealt, in his attack on the institution at the head of which he had the honour of being placed. The object, if properly executed, was most beneficial; it was open as day to inspection, and he should be happy to receive any hints that would be useful; as soon as any useful suggestion was made, the improvement would be attempted.

Mr. Bennet replied, that his objections merely went to the military tone which the form and manner of the school as sumed, not to the general principle of the establishment.

Sir John Hope spoke highly both of the objects and success of the institution in question. At the commencement of the war we had been obliged to study military science under foreign masters; we had since, through the munificent aid of Parliament, acquired the means of obtaining that instruction within ourselves. Out of 276 students of one class, 114 either had served, or were now serving on staff departments. The time consumed in becoming acquainted with regimental drill, and the manœuvres of taking up ground for forming in line, did not exceed an hour, or half an hour in the day; the rest was devoted to pursuits becoming a gentleman as a well-informed member of society, or more immediately connected with the views of that profession to which it was intended the student should be trained. In addition to those branches of instruction in which he was supposed to have already made some progress, his attention was directed to mathematics, to fortification, to the principles of military survey, both practical and theoretical, to drawing, and, according to the abilities displayed, to an intimate knowledge of the French and German languages. The series of his studies was completed by a high finishing examination made by other masters than those under whose direction he had been, and it was those masters who finally decided whether his proficiency and qualifications entitled him to a commission without purchase in his Majesty's service. Of another class, 651 officers

had already joined the army. The sum paid by an ordinary individual for these various advantages was 100l. per annum, but by officers, for their sons, the sum was proportioned to their own pay. He could conceive no system better calculated than the one of which he had at tempted a faint description, to inspire the youths who should be educated under it, with a love and a veneration for that free branch and for those free principles of the constitution to which they were indebted, at least in so many instances, for cultivated minds, and brightened prospects. He could conceive nothing more likely to console a deserving officer than the knowledge that an asylum existed where his children might receive, at a charge proportioned to his means, the benefits of instruction, and a favourable opportunity of pursuing his own honourable profession.

Lord Palmerston, in answer to the inquiries of an hon. member, stated, that it had been agreed, after some difficulty, that the half-pay of the English and Irish establishments should be reciprocal, and that their respective officers, on removing, should receive the half-pay of the coun⚫ try in which they resided. The reason which had induced the exclusion of those officers whose service was anterior to the last war, or to the campaigns of the Peninsula, was, that there were a great number of inefficient officers, and it was difficult to come to the alternative of com. pelling them either to serve or to relinquish their commissions. In many cases there had been no real service, and the half-pay had been purchased as an annuity. With respect to the officers serving in the Portuguese forces, the various difficulties they had had to contend with, in rendering those troops fit for the field, appeared to justify the regulation by which they were allowed to receive Portuguese pay in addition to their own. In answer to a question put by another hon. member, he wished to observe, that the military establishment at Sierra Leone, had been formed on a plan recommended by the late member for Yorkshire; and its principle was, that as something must be done with the captured negroes, it was a fa vourable destination for them to be put on something like the level of a British sol dier. The establishment consisted at present of 566 men, volunteers, and captured negroes, and of 104 boys. After what had been so well said by an hon.

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