present, with a view to any satisfactory conclusion within this session. Being, however, friendly to the Catholics, as he had manifested by his vote upon a former occasion, he hoped that some legislative measure would be brought forward at an early period of the next session, such as could be acceded to consistently with sound policy and justice to all parties; it should have his cordial support, for he was satisfied that things could not fairly remain as they were. The Duke of Susser declared his intention to vote for the motion, upon the grounds already so ably stated by the noble mover and others, who supported his view of the subject. ciliated, while all ground of alarm would be removed from the mind of the Protestants through the establishment of certain securities. But for himself, he was unable to comprehend how the securities proposed could serve to execute their purposes. On the contrary, according to his judgment it appeared impossible to produce any such securities as should at once satisfy the Protestant and conciliate the Catholic-such as should remove the jealousy of the one, and be agreeable to the feelings of the other-such, in a word, as should form the basis of a legislative arrangement satisfactory to all parties: and his view of the subject was justified by the proceedings of the Catholics of Ireland, who had loudly and universally expressed their disapprobation of the plan of securities which had on a late occasion been submitted to that House. What alteration, and whether any would take place in the state of the Catholic church, and in the opinion of the Catholic people in Ireland, which might render it safe for the Legislature to concede to the pretensions of the Catholic body, he could not pretend to say; but at present he was decidedly of opinion, that no such concession was proposed, as it would be prudent in the Legislature to grant with any probability of meeting a graceful reception from the Catholics. Under these considerations he was adverse to the proposed concessions. But whatever his opi-church, if Catholics were admitted into nion might be as to the policy of these concessions, he saw no advantage that could result from the proposed inquiry, and therefore he should give it his decided negative. Viscount Melville thought that the adoption of this motion was not calculated to satisfy the Catholic body, and therefore he should vote against it, although he by no means concurred with those who resisted the proposed concession, on the ground that it would endanger the security of the Church establishment, for the security of which he was as anxious as any one who heard him. Therefore, although he should resist the proposed inquiry, as unlikely to lead to any satisfactory result, he hoped that some legislative measure would be devised for the conciliation of the Catholics without alarming the Protestants. But from the late period of the session, and from what had passed elsewhere, he could not expect that any practical benefit would be derived from resolving into a committee of inquiry upon this subject at Lord Mulgrave spoke strongly in favour of the motion, and deprecated the idea of abstaining to do justice to the Catholic body, because some unreasonable persons were not likely to be satisfied. It was, in his opinion, the duty and the policy of the Legislature to separate the reasonable from the unreasonable part of the Catholics, and to render justice to the former, without any regard to the complaints or caprices of the latter; but to refuse inquiry, and to hold out no expectation, was not the way to afford due satisfaction to any party, He dissented entirely from the proposition of his noble friend (the earl of Liverpool), that it would be impossible to secure a Protestant government and a Protestant Parliament, or rendered eligible to certain civil appointments. So much as to the merits of the general question; and as to the motion before the House, he should vote for it, with a view to hold out an expect. ation to the Catholic body, that it was the intention of the House to remove their just complaints, for he was persuaded that things could not remain in their present state. The Earl of Harrowby agreed with his noble friend who spoke last, that things could not remain in their present state, and should be ready to subscribe to his arguments in favour of the motion, if they were brought forward in February next, instead of the present advanced period of the session; but yet, on the grounds stated by his noble friend (viscount Melville), he could not help declaring, that if he were a Catholic he should consider the adoption of the present motion as a mere mockery. Lord Boringdon said, it would be impossible for him to give his negative to the present proposition; but he found, from EARLS. Essex Aberdeen Mulgrave Leinster. Londonderry MARQUISSES. Granard Downshire Camden Anson. EARLS. The Earl of Liverpool declared his intention to oppose the principle of the Sligo motion. Viscount Melville expressed his approbation of the amendment. The Earl of Westmoreland declined at present to pledge himself upon the subject, although he would probably support a reasonable concession to the Catholics, if brought before the House in the the next session. course of Lord Redesdale concurred in the opinion of the earl of Liverpool, observing, that the system of securities proposed on a late occasion, appeared to him rather to increase than to diminish the danger of complying with the wish of the Catholic body. He approved of the concessions made to the Catholics of Ireland in 1793, but he thought any farther concession would be extremely inexpedient, at least until a material change took place in the character of that body. The Earl of Aberdeen supported the motion, on the ground that by the motion he was not pledged to any general principle, but merely to an inquiry, for which he thought the present moment inauspicious. In the next session the situation of Europe might enable them to decide without danger on the claims of the Catholics. The Motion was then put in the amended form, and the House divided: Besborough St. Vincent Thanet Ilchester Suffolk Crewe Rochester. The duke of Devonshire, the earl of Darnley, and the earl of Albemarle's proxies had been given, but were lost to the vote, by the peers who held them having been accidentally absent. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, June 8. MENDICITY OF THE METROPOLIS.] Mr. Rose, in pursuance of his motion, rose to call the attention of the House to the as accurate information had been obtained mendicity of the metropolis. He believed A Mr. Martin, a respectable gentleman in on that subject as it would well admit of. this neighbourhood, and well known to many members of this House, had, with the greatest industry, compiled an account of the numbers and description of people account which he was in a medicant state in the metropolis and its vicinity, an According ready to submit to the House. to this account there were, on the whole, somewhat more than 15,000 persons in the metropolis and its immediate neighby begging. bourhood who subsisted They were divided in this manner. The persons who had settlements in the me- | tropolis or neighbourhood, amounted to 6,690; of this number 4,150 were children, and 2,540 adults. There were besides 2,604 persons who had settlements in different parts of the country, that is in England; of these 1,374 were adults, and 1,230 children. Of the persons who had no settlements in this kingdom there were 5,310 Irish, of whom 3,273 were children, and 2,037 adults. The Scotch amounted to 504, of whom 309 were children, and 195 adults. The persons who had no settlements in any of these kingdoms, amounted to 177. The result gave nearly 6,000 adults, and 9,000 children. They were not all of them beggars, but some were artificers who earned as much as 40s. a week when in health, but who, from not being members of any friendly society, were left unprovided for when unable at any time to work. Allowing for the maintenance of these people, sixpence a day for such as were adults, and threepence a day for the children-the whole would amount to 100,000l. a year. But he was persuaded that the gains of these people were actually much greater; and the result of his inquiry was, that he would state the sums of money received very low if he allowed 3s. a day to each. He knew, however, to an absolute certainty, that many of them received considerably more than this; but 3s. a day would make somewhat about 328,000l. a year, supposing only the adults to receive it, and putting the children out of the question. The inconvenience to the public was notorious, not only from being incommoded by these persons in the streets (which was the least part of the evil), but from their having no regular means of subsistence, it was clear that the children must be brought up in habits of idleness, vice, and misery. Their system of education was most pernicious. This class of persons never sent their children to school; for the children were instruments in their hands to obtain relief by importunity. That schools were of the utmost advantage to the children of the poor, there could be no doubt; there were even instances of these children actually reforming their parents: he was acquainted with several instances of this description. There were many schools about the me tropolis on a very extensive scale-the school for the children of Soldiers-the Royal Naval Asylum: there was one in Westminster for not less than one thousand 1 children, which owed its existence chiefly to the Speaker, in conjunction with the late master of Westminster-school. Such schools were deserving of every degree of encouragement. A good deal of attention had also been paid to the situation of the poor of the capital and its neighbourhood. There was the association with which Mr. Martin was connected:-a number of gentlemen were authorized to deliver tickets to those people whom they might find begging; they carried their tickets to Mr. Martin's house, who made inquiry into their character, and if he found they were persons deserving of relief, they obtained assistance from him. In addition to this, there was an establishment which was called The Stranger's Friend, not generally known, but which was admirably conducted. The persons themselves went about town, and informed themselves as to the situation of various paupers, whose modesty would not allow them to beg in the common way, and gave them relief. There was another institution, called The Refuge for the Destitute, which was better known than the former. There was also another lately established, called The Irish Benevolent Society. His intention was to propose to the House to appoint a committee to consider the State of Mendicity in the Metropolis. If this should be agreed to, he would, in the first place propose, that the committee should endeavour to ascertain the fact of the extent of the evil. It was at least deserving of attention to try if some means could not be devised for remedying it. When the wisest and best of men had failed, it would be presumptuous to suppose that complete success could be expected; but still he thought something might be done. Nearly 7,000 of these people had settlements in or near the metropolis. The law of the country had provided a remedy for that. With respect to those who had settlements in the country, the same thing might be done with them. The next class was those who belonged to Scotland and Ireland; those from Scotland were few in number, and might be sent back to that country. But with respect to Ireland the difficulty was much greater, as they were more numerous, and in Ireland there were no poor-rates. In Scotland there were means of relief for the poor; and though there were no poor-rates generally in that country, yet the law was on that subject precisely the same as in England. Of the foreigners, many of them might be 689] Thames Bathing Bill. [690 sent home to their own countries. There, and we should hear of their devastations were often to be seen seamen begging in places where the police was less active, with one arm only, or one leg. Knowing or not so well conducted. He doubted the false imputation which they brought whether all charitable institutions had not a tendency to create the evil which they on the country, he had often spoken to These such persons, who admitted that they were intended to relieve. a year. received a pension of 81. were the most importunate of all beggars. After alluding to Edinburgh and Hamburgh, where mendicity was prevented, the right hon. gentleman concluded with moving, "That a committee be appointed to inquire into the state of Mendicity in the Metropolis and its immediate neighbourhood, and to report the same, together with their observations thereupon, to the House," Mr. Hammersley thought that an establishment on the same plan as the House of Industry in Dublin might be serviceable in this country, as it would give an opportunity at once to refer all mendicants to a certain place. Sir M. W. Ridley approved of Mr. Martin's plan. Of the tickets given to paupers, four out of five were never brought to the office, as the mendicants dreaded the inquiries which would be made. If that institution were more known and further extended, he thought it would materially tend to check and lessen the number of beggars. He alluded to the soldiers who pretended to have been blinded by the ophthalmia in Egypt, and who exposed themselves in a disgusting manner in the streets. Mr. Peel was doubtful whether it would be politic to extend an establishment like the House of Industry in Dublin to this country. It cost 50,000l. a year, and relief was given to every person that applied, because there were no poor-rates: but if he was to judge of its efficacy from the state of mendicity in Dublin, his opinion would be far from favourable, as there was no city in which mendicity prevailed to such a degree as in the Irish capital. Sir J. Newport preferred the plan of Mr. Lockhart thought that if mendicants Mr. Rose said, it was desirable that the The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose to After a few further observations from THAMES BATHING BILL.] Mr. Barclay presented two petitions against the Thames Bathing Bill: the one from the watermen that ply upon the Thames, and the other from the inhabitants and householders on the banks of the river. He thought that indecencies which were now witnessed, something should be done to prevent the and which otherwise would extend to a greater degree. He defended the principle of these petitions. He had heard much of the rights of man, and lately of the rights of Scotch poachers: he hoped he should not hear of the right of indecent was slow and expensive. exposure. The remedy by action at law Mr. M. A. Taylor had lived for twentyseven years on the banks of the Thames, and had never perceived any acts of indecency. Some time he had not seen six persons bathing in the course of twelve months. Were we worse than our an(2 Y) cestors? As a magistrate he did not recol List of the Minority. Allen, G. Montgomery, sir H. Newport, sir J. Riddell, sir J. B. Ridley, sir M. W. Smith, J. Tierney, G. TELLERS. Bennet, hon. H. G. Gordon, R. EAST INDIA SHIPS REGISTRY BILL.] The Report of the committee on the East India Registry Ships Bill being taken into further consideration, Mr. Wallace proposed to introduce a clause to substitute 350 tons to 100. As the Bill stood, no ship under 100 tons was to obtain a registry: he found that ships of that tonnage were not employed in the East India trade, and therefore wished to alter the number to 350. lect that any particular acts of that nature had come under his knowledge; and if they had, they could not be punished by an action, but by fine and imprisonment. Mr. Harvey had likewise the pleasure of living on the banks of the Thames, and he could not help saying that it was almost impossible for any decent person to live in such a situation from the number of persons undressing themselves, and exposing their naked bodies to view. Mr. Calvert begged leave to state, that he did not believe either petition proceeded from the inhabitants of Southwark. The petitions were ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Wynn then moved the order of the day for the House to resolve itself into a committee on the Thames Bathing Bill. The House having resolved accordingly, Mr. Harvey proposed a clause, the object of which was to prevent persons from bathing in the River Thames in particular Mr. Marryatt renewed his opposition places; by imposing a penalty, recover- to the Bill. It had been said by an hon. able before a magistrate, of not less than member (Mr. C. Grant) on a former day, 5s., and not more than 10s. for the first of when he (Mr. Marryatt) had announced fence, and of 20s. for the second offence; his intention to offer a clause for restrictthe magistrates having power to prohibiting the operation of this Bill, that it might bathing, on application from the inhabitants, in particular districts. On this a division took place, without comment. The numbers were-For the clause, 28; Against it, 56; Majority, 28. The Bill, in its original form, was then agreed to, and the House resumed. STAMP DUTIES-NEWSPAPERS.] Mr. Bregden brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means. On the resolution for imposing a duty of an additional halfpenny on newspapers being read, Sir John Newport suggested the propriety of reducing this duty to its original state. He was quite sure that the quantum of revenue the increase would produce, would in no respect compensate the public for the loss which they would sustain by the impediments which would be thrown in the way of receiving that information which at this particular period was of such general importance. The right hon. baronet then moved an amendment by substituting three-pence halfpenny in the room of four-pence. After a few words from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which were inaudible in the gallery, a division took place-For the Amendment, 16; Against it, 53; Majority, 37. The resolution was then agreed to. as well be attempted to take from the East India Company their charter, as to prohibit them from employing India-built ships. He would state what had been advanced on this subject by that hon. member, and other directors of the East India Company on a former occasion, and leave him to answer his own arguments as he could. He then quoted the report of a committee of the East India Directors, dated January 27, 1801, in which the admission of India ships into a formal participation in the commerce and navigation between Britain and India was viewed with the most serious apprehension. In another part of the same Report such a line of conduct was deprecated as tending to supersede the Company's privileges, and open the way to what all agreed ought to be prevented-the colonization of Europeans in India." It was further stated to involve principles and effects dangerous to the interests both of the Company and of the nation, to lead to the pouring of Europeans of the lower sort into India, and thus, by lessening that respect entertained for the British character, which had hitherto contributed to maintain our ascendancy in the East, to disturb and shake our Government there." In a second Report, the plan of the Governor-general respecting India ships, was 66 |