amount of Customs duties for the payment | out by the speech of his predecessor last of the interest of the National Debt. The year in attempting to effect a reduction of same argument applies to the Excise du- the National Debt. He thought the House ties-spirits, wine, beer, &c. The work- might safely adopt the method of dealing ing man, therefore, has a deep interest with the National Debt indicated in the in the reduction of the National Debt. speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Americans were doing precisely what that night. He did not think that the we would not do. During the war they propositions deserved the criticisms which had an immense expenditure, but they had been passed upon it, and which had a system of taxation commensurate seemed to him to be of rather a pedantic with it. Since the termination of the war character. There was a general disposithey had diminished their expenditure; tion to cry out againt the principle of sinkbut the people submitted to be taxed as if ing funds; but it must not be forgotten the war still continued. There was there- that we should never have got rid of so fore a large surplus of revenue which they large a portion of the Debt had not applied to the reduction of their debt; and £3,000,000 per annum of it been conwithin little more than one year they had tracted in the form of terminable annuireduced it to the extent of £40,000,000. ties, and he must ask what was the use of One word as to the obligations we had in- indulging in abstract speculations when curred. Take, for instance, the question they had such a cogent argument before of fortifications. The country had engaged them? The question of extinguishing the to lay out on fortifications £6,995,000; of National Debt was not simply an arithwhich £3,491,000 had been already ad metical question-it was a moral question, vanced. There remained £3,500,000 to and he ventured to express his earnest be provided for. But this was not alluded thanks to those Chancellors who had deto in the Budget. Then, again, the ar- clined to yield to the pressure of particumament of the defences when completed lar class interests, which were seeking to would require 1,104 rifled guns, and cost get rid of the taxes that pressed most £1,882,000. We were also pledged to peculiarly upon them. It was in conthe extent of millions for dockyard exten- sequence of the resistance of Chancellors sions, barracks, public works, &c. The of the Exchequer to such pressure that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not said right hon. Gentleman was enabled that one word about these prospective claims night to remit a tax which he regarded as on the finance of the country. So long being the most unjust. He wished, howas the National Debt existed with an an- ever, to call the attention of the right hon. nual charge for interest to the amount of Gentleman to one other tax which might £26,000,000, taxation must be kept up be considered without materially trenching for the payment of interest. on the Budget. He had for some years MR. AYRTON said, he entirely con- brought under consideration the unjust curred in the general feeling of satisfac- character of some of the charges upon locotion with which the House had heard the motion, and he succeeded at last in obFinancial Statement of the Chancellor of taining from the late Chancellor of the Exthe Exchequer. It was marked by severe chequer some remission; but there still simplicity and prudence. That simplicity, remained the vexatious tax levied upon. he hoped, would be accepted by the House hackney carriages in the metropolis. as an evidence of the real intention of the This was a tax levied originally for the Government to enable them to deal during purpose of improving the communication the present Session with the great subject between the City of London and the of Parliamentary Reform. He could not Houses of Parliament and the Courts at conceive anything more unfavourable to Westminster. At that time the road lay the complete discussion and solution of through a miserable lane, which was althat question than being embarrassed dur- most impassable, and the consequence ing the Session by any complicated mat- was that most persons chose to make ters of finance. He also thought the speech of the right hon. Gentleman deserved to be admired for its prudence. He had not in the present posture of affairs attempted to do battle with any great remission of taxation. He had done well and wisely in pursuing the course marked VOL. CLXXXVI. [THIRD SERIES.]

the passage by water.

No sooner was the tax levied than by a dexterous movement the Chancellor of the Exchequer of that day converted the tax into a source of Imperial revenue. At that time hackney carriages, or, as they were now more generally called, cabs, were almost ex

2 P

clusively used by the wealthier classes, but | fire insurance duty was only a means of now they had become conveniences for a ascertaining the quantity of personal provery large portion of the inhabitants of perty of which the individual was posthe metropolis. The charge upon these vehicles was perfectly amazing, it being no less than 18. a day on each. If the proceeds of the tax were applied to local improvements something might be said in its favour; but there was no pretence for its being made a source of Imperial revenue. This tax was not levied on conveyances anywhere else. In all other parts of the kingdom the only duty paid by these vehicles was the ordinary tax upon horses and carriages. The result of this tax was that the public had to put up with bad cabs. There was no objection to the impost being levied in the metropolis as it was in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, and other large towns; but in its present form the burden was most objectionable, and if it were removed one good result would be that a better class of vehicles would be provided. Although the total sum raised by its means was but small, the pressure upon the proprietors of the street cabs was enormous. He did not intend to press his views on this subject upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the form of a Motion; but he hoped that that right hon. Gentleman would take the matter into consideration, and would allow the Secretary of the Treasury to bring in a Bill to amend the laws relating to this duty, so as to subject the metropolitan cabs to the ordinary horse and carriage duty only. He regretted that the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. H. B. Sheridan) should have given notice of his intention to raise the issue of the reduction of the Fire Insurance Duty against the scheme of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. No doubt the question would be brought under the notice of the House with all the vast machinery of agitation which insurance companies could bring to bear upon the minds of Members of that House, and might therefore find more support than it deserved. The hon. Gentleman had denied that the Fire Insurance Duty was in any way a tax upon property; but he, on the contrary, believed that that duty was only a bad method of collecting what was really intended to be a tax upon personal property. Although bad in the mode in which it was collected it represented one of the most ancient forms of taxation with which the country was acquainted-namely, a tax upon personal property possessed by individuals. The

sessed; but it was open to the great objection that it only included those who consented to assess themselves by taking out a policy of insurance. If the owners of property insisted on being relieved of that tax, the question would arise, how they were to levy a substitute for it on the visible personal property of the country. If the House should like to add to the income tax 2d. in the pound, and take off that and some other duties, it would, he believed, be a very wise proceeding; but it was not just to the mass of the people that there should be an agitation on the part of the owners of property to relieve themselves of that tax unless they would frankly tell the Chancellor of the Exchequer that they were ready to submit to another impost which would yield an equal amount to the revenue. He must also express his deep regret that, instead of having a diminution of the national expenditure, they should be compelled to bear so large an increase as £2,000,000 to that increase in the present year. He hoped that that increase might be regarded as temporary, and that the Government would apply themselves earnestly to the question of reducing the public expenditure, so that if they remained in office till that time next year they should not have to ask the House to raise Ways and Means to the enormous amount that was asked that night; because if in the exceptional state of Europe the country should assent to that scale of expenditure this year, it certainly would not assent to its continuance. Though the present Government came after Lord Palmerston, who inflicted the greatest injury on the public interests by encouraging every kind of expenditure amd extravagance, still it was to be hoped that as that Minister's career was forgotten so his extravagance would not be imitated in these days. The Minister who had not left associated with his name any great act for the benefit of the people, but who had only increased their burdens, would, he repeated, be forgotten unless he was remembered to his disadvantage. But the time had come for applying themselves seriously to that subject, in order that a better account might be presented by the Government next year.

MR. M'LAREN said, that last year he expressed his approval of the plan for re

In Scotland and Ireland respectively, the Rate or Duty of One penny halfpenny. of the Act 26th Victoria, chapter 22, for the exSubject to the provisions contained in Section 3 emption of persons whose Incomes from every source is under One Hundred pounds a-year, and relief to those whose Income is under Two Hundred pounds a-year.

3. Resolved, That the Stamp Duties now payable in the United Kingdom under the Act 7 Vic. c. 21, and the Act 28 and 29 Vict. c. 96, for Policies of Sea Insurance shall cease and determine; and that, in lieu thereof, there shall be charged, collected, and paid for such Policies the Stamp Duties following (that is to say):

ducing the National Debt by means of terminable annuities, and he was delighted to hear that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken up that plan. It was much to the right hon. Gentleman's credit that, foregoing the advantage of the popularity which he might have obtained by trying to do something new, he had candidly adopted the proposal of his predecessor, thinking it the best for the country under the circumstances. That we, the richest people in the world, should make no effort to pay off the National Debt was quite discreditable to us. He could not admit that the paying off of £24,000,000 of that Debt was so infinitesimal a matter as not to be worth considering. £24,000,000 was 1-33rd of the whole Debt, and by ten such operations as that proposed one-third of the Debt would be extinguished. Some hon. Gentlemen had approved the Budget with certain qualifications, but for his part he made no qualifications; he approved it pure and simple. He thought, however, that the right hon. Gentleman ought to offer a little reciprocity, and not be so much afraid, as some of his friends seemed to be, of intrusting the people with political power. It was a curious fact that every hon. Member who supported the proposal to pay off a portion of the National Debt represented a large popular constituency.

2. Resolved, That, towards raising the Supply granted to Her Majesty, there shall be charged, collected, and paid for one year, commencing on the 6th day of April 1867, for and in respect of all Property, Profits, and Gains, mentioned or described as chargeable in the Act passed in the 16th and 17th years of Her Majesty's reign, chapter 34, for granting to Her Majesty Duties on Profits arising from Property, Professions, Trades, and Offices, the following Rates and Duties (that is to say):

For every twenty shillings of the annual value or amount of all such Property, Profits, and Gains (except those chargeable under Schedule (B) of the said Act), the Rate or Duty of Four

pence. And for and in respect of the occupation of Lands, Tenements, Hereditaments, and Heritages chargeable under Schedule (B) of the said Act, for every Twenty shillings of the

annual value thereof,

In England, the Rate or Duty of Two pence,

and

For every Policy or other Instrument
whereby any Insurance shall be made
upon any Ship or Vessel, or upon
any Goods, Merchandize, or other
Property on board of any Ship or
Vessel or upon the freight of any
Ship or Vessel, or upon any interest
whatever in or relating to any Ship
or Vessel which may lawfully be in-
sured, for or upon any voyage, in
respect of every full sum of One
Hundred Pounds, and in respect of
any fractional part of One Hundred
pounds thereby insured

s. d.

0 3

And for every Policy or other instrument whereby
any such Insurance as aforesaid shall be made
for any time, in respect of every full sum of
One Hundred pounds, and in respect of any
fractional part of One Hundred pounds thereby
insured-
8. d.

Where the Insurance shall be made
for any time not exceeding Six
Months

Where the Insurance shall be made

0 3

for any time exceeding Six Months and not exceeding Twelve Months 0 6 But if the separate interests of two or more distinct persons shall be insured by one Policy or Instrument for a Voyage or for Time, then the Duty of 3d., or the Duty of 3d. or 6d., as the case may require, shall be charged thereon in respect of every full sum of One Hundred pounds, and every fractional part of One Hundred pounds thereby insured upon any separate and distinct interest.

4. Resolved, That no allowance shall be made for the Stamp Duty on any Policy or other Instrument whereby any Sea Insurance shall be made, except in the first case specified in the first section of the Act 54 Geo. 3, c. 133.

On question, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair,"

MR. OSBORNE said, that before the Chairman vacated the Chair he wished to make an appeal to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He did so without having been in any communication with the Irish Members whom the next Order on the paper (the Tenants Improvements (Ireland) Bill) more immediately concerned. But the right hon. Gentleman, who understood the matter as well, if not better, than any Member of that House, would hardly

THE CHAIRMAN said, the Question before the House was that he should now leave the Chair. The hon. Gentleman having put the Question, declared, in the usual form, that "the Ayes have it."

MR. OSBORNE believed that he could speak on that Question, and he challenged the Chairman's ruling by saying that he thought the "Noes" had it. The hon. Member was proceeding to offer some observations to the House; but being called to order said he would not put the Committee to the trouble of dividing.

Motion, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair," agreed to.

House resumed.

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow;
Committee to sit again To-morrow.

TENANTS IMPROVEMENTS (IRELAND)

BILL-[BILL 29.]

(Lord Naas, Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland.)

gainsay that the Bill to which he referred, believed that within the recollection of was probably one of the most important the House there had never before been a measures that could be brought before Budget introduced, which, with the disthem. ["Order!" He thought he was cussion arising from it, terminated at a taking the simplest course by raising that quarter before nine o'clock. Whether that question then. be a fact or not, he thought that hon. Gentlemen generally must confess that few measures involved such important consequences to Ireland as the present Bill, and deserved more attention in that House. He was sure that the Government attached so much importance to that Bill that they would not wish it to be brought on at a time and under circumstances when it was impossible it could receive due consideration. Intimately connected as he was with Ireland he thought that such a Bill was entitled from its importance to stand first on the paper as the great question for debate. The second reading of the Bill brought in last Session was placed first on the paper, and had an entire evening appropriated to itself. The hon. Member for Kilkenny (Sir John Gray), who was to take a prominent part in the discussion on this subject, had left the House under the impression that the discussion on the Budget would last beyond the time fixed for entering upon the consideration of this measure. The Leader of the Opposition-not the hon. Member for Roscommon (Colonel French)-had also left the House. [Here Colonel FRENCH made an observation which did not reach the gallery]. He (Mr. Osborne) was obliged to the hon. Gentleman below him for his running commentary, but he was then referring to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was MR. OSBORNE, in seconding the sure that the House generally would be of Motion, said, he would resume the ap- opinion it was desirable that the Leaders peal (where he had left off) to the right on both sides of the House should be prehon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Ex-sent when a question of this importance chequer whose knowledge of Ireland and, was called on for discussion. In all fairit was only fair to add, whose good in-ness he submitted to the right hon. Gentletentions towards that country no one was man the noble Lord the Secretary for Iremore ready to admit than he (Mr. Osborne) | land (Lord Naas) whether it would not be - whether the right hon. Gentleman better to name a night for the second thought that so important a question as reading, when it would stand first on the this confessedly was should now be pro- paper, and assume that importance to ceeded with on its second reading-whe- which the question involved was fully enther it should be brought on at the fag titled-namely, an early day after Easter. end of the Financial Statement introducing If the measure were then brought under the Budget, and which, with the discussion discussion the result would be a partial upon it, lasted for a period unexampled by and unsatisfactory debate, resulting at its brevity in that House. In reference length in an adjournment. He would not to that fact he must compliment the right enter into the details of this Bill; but venhon. Gentleman upon the succinctness and tured to remark that it was not one that completeness of his speech-a speech which would settle the question at issue. And he thought would stand as a good model if it were now proceeded with there would, for all Chancellors of the Exchequer. He of course, be a great deal of speaking

SECOND READING.

Order for Second Reading read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time." (Lord Naas.)

MR. CANDLISH moved that the debate be adjourned.

was

their places. If, however, the hon. Representatives of Ireland will endeavour to be present here on the 29th instant, or the Monday on which the House re-assembles, I shall be happy to meet them then for the consideration of this question. Indeed, I think that there ought to be an exertion made on both sides to be then present, when I hope that the subject will be "That the Debate be now ad- and attention which its interest and imMoved, treated by all parties with that respect journed." (Mr. Candlish.) portance demand.