provisions which are almost certain to meet | employed for hire in any field labour whatthe requirements of the case. In the first ever. This will affect not only the private place, I would proceed on the principles of gangs, but the entire agricultural populathe Factory and Colliery Acts. When in tion of every county; exceptions, of course, 1842 I introduced a Bill in the House of to be allowed for harvest. I maintain that Commons to remove women from employ- physically, morally, and economically such ment in the collieries of the United King- a provision as this will be most beneficial dom, I was told that I should do no end of in its effects. Certainly the extensive emmischief by depriving women of their means ployment of women and girls in fieldwork of subsistence, and that I should be the has tended more to degrade women and cause of misery in many families. Never- lower the rate of agricultural wages than theless, I persisted, the Legislature adopt- the operation of almost any other causes ed my proposal, and nothing but good has whatsoever. Then I should next provide come of it. From that hour to this the that no child between the ages of eight condition of the colliery districts has been and thirteen shall be employed for hire in greatly improved in consequence of the field labour, without producing to its emnon-employment of women in that disgust- ployer, at times to be appointed, a cering and unsuitable labour. I shall propose tificate of its having attended school during by my Bill, immediately it passes, to ex- the preceding intervals for a certain numclude from these public gangs all women ber of hours, calculated according to the whatever under eighteen years of age. most convenient arrangements, whether by If I were to exclude women altogether, half-time, alternate days, or by the syseven above that age, as they are ex- tem under the Print Works Act, of so many cluded from the collieries, I might be hours collectively, of education, in any asthought to be asking too much, as old signed period, regard being had to the habits cannot be got rid of all at once, seasons of the year. I believe that the and a little time might be necessary to find half-time and the alternate day system some substitute for the labour of women. cannot be adopted in the agricultural disBut by removing all women under eighteen tricts; and I therefore suggest that what from these public gangs you would at once is required is the attendance of a child at set at liberty 1,478 girls out of a popula- school for a certain number of hours durtion of 7,000. I speak now only of the ing a definite number of weeks or months. public gangs. The private gangs are, it is My Lords, in attempting to grapple with true, the most numerous; but they are this evil I hope your Lordships will kindly much more difficult to deal with than public give me your sympathy and support. In gangs, comprising, as they often do, women this way you will give the crowning stroke and children living in the neighbourhood to the various efforts made for many years of a farm, and working under the superin- past to bring all the industrial occupations tendence of the farmer's son or of one of of the young and the defenceless under the his labourers. I should reach them in protection of the law; and, whether they another way, by clauses which would affect are employed in trade, in manufactures, the whole agricultural population; because or in any handicraft whatever, every child it is perfectly manifest that some measure under a certain age will be subject only to relating to this matter must be brought a limited amount of labour, and will be in which will touch the whole agricultural certain to receive a certain amount of edupopulation. The particular machinery of cation. All that remains for your Lordthe Factory and Colliery Acts would be ships now to do, as representing the landwholly inapplicable to agricultural industry; owners of the Kingdom, is to embrace but, as I have said, I should propose to within the scope of your beneficent legisproceed upon the principles of those Acts. lation the whole mass of the agricultural The main outlines, then, of the Bill which population. Then, I believe, we shall be I desire to introduce would be as follows:- enabled to say that no country upon earth 1. That no female under eighteen years of surpasses us in the care we take of the age shall be employed in any public gang physical, the moral, and the educational of agricultural labourers. 2. That no well-being of the myriads of our humbler child under eight years of age shall be fellow-creatures. I am quite sure, my employed for hire in field labour at all. Lords, that the object you have in view 3. That after the 1st of January, 1869, is one well worthy of all the time, the no female under eleven years of age (I anxiety, the zeal, and the talents which can should like to say up to thirteen) shall be be bestowed upon it; and I am satisfied VOL. CLXXXVI. [THIRD SERIES.]

:

3 B

that your Lordships will earnestly desire to see it accomplished.

lic gangs, that he was persuaded the farmers themselves would soon be glad that the Legislature had interfered for their suppression. It seemed to him desirable that some attention should be paid to the system of private gangs, and he was happy to learn that it was the intention of the Government to extend the inquiry to them. He would only add that, melancholy as the fact might be, there could be no doubt that, to a very considerable extent, the smallness of the wages received by agricultural labourers compelled them to employ their wives and children in work of that description; at all events, the element of wages could not be kept altogether out of view. Fortunately, it happened that the wages of agricultural labourers were at the present moment on the rise, and the moment was therefore favourable for legislation. He trusted that his noble Friend would bring in his Bill as soon after Easter as possible.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY said, that being connected with one of the districts in which the system that had been described by his noble Friend existed, he wished to express his thanks to him for having brought the subject before their Lordships. There was no place where it could be better discussed than in that House, where there were so many owners of land and persons practically conversant with agriculture. After the very full account given by his noble Friend of the state of demoralization which had been shown to exist in those parts of the country where the gang system prevailed, he would not trouble their Lordships with any detail; but, having for many years been acquainted with the course followed in these gangs and with the effects they produced in the districts where they were to be found, he did not think his noble Friend had said one word about them which was too strong. He could assure THE EARL OF BELMORE thought that their Lordships that where the gang system the noble Earl deserved the thanks of their had been introduced it had been the cause Lordships for bringing this matter before of the greatest mischief to the population them. The disclosures made in the former concerned. The evil was one which he Reports of the Commissioners were painful believed they ought to lose not a day in enough; but those contained in the sixth dealing with by legislation. He was there- Report were more painful still, because fore glad that his noble Friend was likely they established the great demoralization to introduce a Bill, because their Lordships produced by this system, and more espewould then have an opportunity of dis- cially among the young girls employed in cussing the subject in a practical manner. this sort of labour. One of the CommisHe would not at that moment express sioners, however, in his Report, remarking any decided opinions with respect to the on the influence of out of door employment proposals; but he thought that his noble on the physical condition of the women and Friend scarcely went far enough in propos- young persons, stated that, working as they ing that no girl under eleven years of age did in the fresh air, their appearance was should be employed in field labour. For generally satisfactory, and that some of himself, he should be sincerely glad if a the young women were exceedingly healthy law could be framed to prevent girls from and muscular. His noble Friend had stated being employed in agricultural labour that immediately after he would introduce under thirteen years of age. It was de-a Bill dealing with the subject he (the sirable that boys intended for agricultural pursuits should be early accustomed to field labour, but he thought they ought not to be employed for hire under eight years. It was also desirable that there should be some provision for their education. The most difficult point in the scheme of his noble Friend would be to prevent women from being employed in public gangs under the age of eighteen. He did not mean to say that that would not be desirable; but considering the extent to which females were employed in some parts of the country, he doubted whether it would be practicable at once to adopt so decided a measure. Such were the evils attending these pub

Earl of Belmore) need hardly say that Her Majesty's Government would give their best consideration to any measure having that object. The noble Earl had expressed his regret that the Secretary for the Home Department had stated in "another place" that he could not undertake to deal with the question during the present Session of Parliament. But in pronouncing a judg ment upon that announcement of his right hon. Friend it was necessary to remember the great difficulties by which the subject was surrounded. If they were to deal solely with public gangs the result would be that many of those employed in them would join the private gangs; and if they

Foreign Affairs, Whether he has received upon the former supposition, to ask upon a request from the Government of France what principle such tenant is required to to send a Delegate to represent England pay the full rate, in apparent contradiction at the International Currency Conference of the law which sanctions a reduced to be held at Paris next May; and, if so, rate where there is a guarantee from the what reply he has sent to such request; landlord; upon the latter supposition, to and, whether he is aware that most of the ask upon what principle the tenant is alEuropean Governments, and the United lowed to deduct from his rent the compoStates of America, have undertaken to sition rate only, the landlord having been send Delegates to such Conference? relieved from the guarantee on condition of which such composition rate was substituted for the full rate; and, whether it is not the fact that, in the one case a larger amount of rate would be payable on the tenement than the law now contemplates, and in the other the landlord would be relieved of part of the charge upon his property without being required to fulfil the conditions under which such relief is now allowed?

LORD STANLEY, in reply, said, Her Majesty's Government had received a request from the French Government to send a delegate to represent England at the International Currency Conference in Paris, and that morning a reply was sent to that request. It was to the effect that the Master of the Mint would be empowered to attend the Conference to give any information in his power or take part in any discussion that may take place; but he will not be authorized to bind the Government to any conclusions at which the Conference may arrive.

THE CATTLE PLAGUE.-QUESTION. COLONEL LESLIE said, he rose to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether the importation of sheep into Ireland from Scotland might again be permitted, as the cattle disease has now for some time disappeared in Scotland?

LORD NAAS said, he thought the time had now come when it might be possible to consider the question as to whether the restrictions that had existed so long in regard to sheep in the United Kingdom might not, to a certain extent, be relaxed. He had directed certain inquiries to be made in the matter, and he hoped in a few days to acquaint his hon. and gallant Friend with the result.

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE
BILL-COMPOUND HOUSEHOLDERS.

QUESTION.

MR. WARNER said, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether in the case of a compound occupier who may have claimed to be rated under the provisions of the Representation of the People Bill, paid a rate, and been placed on the Register, it is intended that the composition shall be treated as continuing, or shall be considered to have ceased, as affecting the liability of the landlord to a future rate in the tenant's default, or in

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, the Notice of the hon. Gentleman is rather peculiar. It partakes more of the character of a treatise than of a Question. It asks certainly in the first place for information; and I am bound, always in reply to these inquiries, to give the best information I can. But it then proceeds to two alternatives, then to the discussion of two principles, and finally to a very argumentative conclusion. Now I admire the condensed power of expression which has permitted the hon. Gentleman to lay his views before the House even in' the comparatively short form in which it appears upon the Paper; but I have not that confidence in myself that I feel I could do justice to the Question in the space which the patience of the House would permit. The hon. Gentleman has opened up a question which may lead to an important debate, and one which awaits the consideration of the House at the present moment. As regards the information he requires, I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the 7th section of the clause I last put on the paper, with respect to compound-householders. All the information I have on that subject is contained in that 7th section. With regard to the alternative principles and conclusion, I will take the most convenient opportunity offered me to enter into the questions which the hon. Gentleman has opened.

ARMY-ARTILLERY-CHILLED SHOT.

QUESTION.

MR. HENRY BAILLIE said, he would

the event of a vacancy in the occupation; beg to ask the Secretary of State for War,

Whether it is true that shot have been cast in sand at Woolwich without being chilled, which were brought into competition with Major Palliser's projectiles, and which gave precisely the same results as though they had been cast in chill?

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON: It is true, Sir, that shot has been cast in sand at Woolwich without being chilled, and have great penetrating power; but as to the results, I am not at present able to state them. As to economy of manufacture, I am given to understand that the chilled iron has decidedly the advantage.

FEES OF RETURNING OFFICERS.

QUESTION.

MR. KEKEWICH said, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he proposes to introduce a clause into the Reform Bill, for the purposes of making uniform the various fees now pay; able by candidates to the returning and other officers who shall hereafter be specified, and whether he proposes to make the payment of conveyance to the poll illegal? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, I have to state, in answer to my hon. Friend, that experience has made me very chary of interfering with returning officers or any other body of individuals; but with reference to making the payment of conveyance to the poll illegal, I may say it is intended so greatly to multiply places of polling so that I hope that would be perfectly unnecessary, and that no such expenses need be incurred.

IRELAND-VOTING PAPERS.

QUESTION.

that Bill will contain a clause in reference to voting papers, I believe there is a very general feeling in Ireland that a clause of that character should be inserted in the Bill.

OUR RELATIONS WITH SPAIN.

QUESTION.

MR. OSBORNE said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, If he is able to state, without injury to the Public Service, the actual position of our relations with Spain?

LORD STANLEY: Sir, the House is aware that there are, unfortunately, two questions now pending between the British Government and that of Spain. With regard to one of these questions, that of the Tornado, I have received from the Spanish Government a further communication. I cannot say it is altogether satisfactory; but, at the same time, I do not look upon it as necessarily final or conclusive. That communication is now under the consideration of Her Majesty's Government. With reference to the second and more pressing case of the Victoria, I regret to say that I am not in a position to give any further information to the House. I have not received any reply of any kind from the Spanish Government on that subject.

METROPOLIS-BUCKINGHAM PALACE

GARDENS.-QUESTION.

MR. OWEN STANLEY said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works, If the footpath outside the Buckingham Palace Gardens, from the Palace towards the lower end of Grosvenor Place, belongs to the Crown, and, if so, why the path is not kept flagged instead of being a muddy and narrow path during wet weather; and, if the First Commissioner will undertake to have it kept in proper order for foot passengers ?

MR. REARDEN said, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce a Bill this Session for the amendment of the Representation of the People of Ireland; and, if so, whether the Clause in reference to LORD JOHN MANNERS said, he apVoting Papers, contained in the Bill for prehended that any question on this subthe Representation of the People of Eng-ject should be addressed not to the Office land, be omitted in the Bill intended for of Works, but to the parochial authorities who were intrusted with powers of lighting and paving.

Ireland?

THE CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER: Sir, I have already stated, in reply to several Gentlemen connected with Ireland, that it is the intention of the Government to introduce a Bill for the amendment of the Representation of the People of Ireland; and, with regard to

REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE
BILL THE HUNDREDS OF OFFLOW.
QUESTION.

MR. FOLEY said, he would beg to

the latter part of the inquiry, whether ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer,