IRELAND-INSPECTORS OF WEIGHTS MOTION FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE. MR. BRUEN said, he rose to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the justice of a claim for compensation to the Late Inspectors of Weights and Measures he had himself to discharge duties which to the performance of their public duties, would have properly devolved on that and that they did not occupy a position learned Lord. He thought that Scotch similar to that of officers in whose case business would not suffer, but rather gain, compensation for loss of office was usually if some such suggestion as that of the hon. given. Upon that point, however, he did Member for Montrose were adopted. not lay much stress, the real question for the consideration of the House being out of what fund the proposed compensation was to be paid. It was in 1862 suggested by the then hon. Member for Youghal (Mr. Butt) that it should be paid out of the local rates; but that suggestion was received with general disfavour, in fact no one else supported it. The demand now made was that the compensation should come out of monies to be voted by Parliament; but with every disposition to relieve those officers, he could not see how a case could be made out for doing so out of the public funds. There was no recent precedent for the adoption of such a course, and he was sure that it would be resisted, not only by the present but by the late Secretary to the Treasury, on public grounds. It would therefore be simply deluding those officers to hold out to them false hopes by acceding to the Motion of his hon. Friend for inquiry. The more candid and straightforward course was to negative the proposal. in Ireland for the loss of their offices. He thought it was unfair to employ men for the best years of their lives in offices which they had reason to believe would be permanent, and then, when it was found that their services could be dispensed with, to displace them without compensation, leaving them, as was in many instances the case, to die of starvation by the roadside. Many of those gentlemen who held these appointments had given up others in order to accept them. Almost all of the officers whose case he was bringing before the House had received testimonials of their efficiency, and resolutions recommending the grant of compensation to them had been passed by the grand juries of various counties and the municipal corporations of several boroughs. The Act of 1860 had been amended by a subsequent Act in 1862; but a proviso introduced into that Act had proved fatal to the measure. The Act of 1835, which appointed these Inspectors, gave power to levy certain fees, and provided for penalties in cases of impingement. He hoped the House would consent to grant this Committee. MR. PIM seconded the Motion. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the justice of a claim for compensation to the late Inspectors of Weights and Measures in Ireland for the loss of their offices,"—(Mr. Bruen,) -instead thereof. LORD NAAS said, it was with great reluctance that he must ask the House to take a view of the case different from that of the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. The fact was admitted that coneiderable hardship had been inflicted on those officers by the Act of 1860. He must, however, observe that they were not persons who gave up the whole of their time MR. SYNAN said, the late officers of weights and measures in Ireland were paid by fines and fees, a portion of which were now paid in aid of the salaries of the clerks of petty sessions. The Imperial Treasury, consequently, had the benefit to that extent of the fines and fees, for it would be the duty of the State, if the fines and fees were not so appropriated, to make up to the clerks of sessions any deficiency in their salaries. The principal portion of the time of these gentlemen was occupied in such a way as to keep them from other occupations, and they had a fair ground for coming to that House to ask how the funds were applied which might have been rendered available for their assistance. He thought that a fair ground had been shown for the apof a Committee. pointment MR. VANCE said, that the late inspectors of weights and measures in Ireland did not at the present moment ask for compensation, but only asked for inquiry. The noble Lord said that those officers were not appointed by the Crown, but by the grand juries. He had, however, known men in a good position, and having friends in that House, to obtain pensions, though they had received no appointment from the Crown-he alluded to the proctors in the different Courts of Probate, and he trusted that the claims of the inspectors of weights and measures would not be disregarded, because they happened to be humble men without influence. He knew one case in which the whole of the officer's time had been employed, and that in many they had been reduced to great straits. GENERAL DUNNE said, he thought it would be better for the late inspectors to submit their case to the Treasury, and to the justice of the House, than to have a Select Committee appointed. They had made out their case. MR. PIM said, he did not see how justice could be done without the appointment of a Committee, whose business would be to ascertain whether compensation should be granted. The noble Lord had fully admitted the justice of the case, and the House ought to see that justice was done. delay, to inquire into the causes of disaffection in Ireland, he thought it perfectly obvious that the time for this would not come till those sterner duties had been discharged which, unfortunately, followed every unsuccessful insurrection. He wished to call attention to the courage and self-reliance exhibited, he believed, . in every place in Ireland, where the police force came into collision with the insurgents during the late unhappy attempt at rebellion. It would be invidious to make any arbitrary selection of cases; but he might fairly refer to two instances, both of which occurred in the county he had the honour to represent. There was a small village called Ardagh, lying at the foot of the hills which divided the county of Kerry from the county of Limerick. The police barracks there had no means of defence in case of attack by an armed MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE force. On the night of the 5th instant one said, he thought that the noble Lord had constable and four sub-constables were taken the wisest, and even the kindest attacked by a body of fifty men, a number course, in declining to submit the case of whom penetrated into the barracks. to a Select Committee. It was not to be Within the barracks, in addition to the expected that the result of inquiry by a constabulary, were the wife and two inCommittee would induce the Government fant children of the constable. The police to pay the compensation asked for out of knew well if they would only consent to the public funds, for the fines and fees give up their arms not a hair of their heads went to the relief of the local funds. He would be touched, and the woman and chilwas sorry for the condition of the persons dren would be uninjured. But those brave whose case was brought under considera- men drove out those who had effected an tion, but he should feel it his duty to entrance at the point of the bayonet, and vote against the appointment of a Com- of the assailants twenty-two were now in mittee. custody. In the police barracks at Kilmalloch, at the other end of the county, fourteen constables and sub-constables were attacked by 200 men, directed, he believed, by an officer who had served in the American Federal army. The attack lasted for three or four hours. Three women and eleven children were in the house; an attempt was made to burn it in order to effect an entrance; but still the police gallantly resisted till sub-inspector Miller arrived with ten men, who took the insurgents in flank, when the police in the barracks rushed out and completely defeated the assailants, of whom a considerable number were in custody. Although in those instances the numbers employed were not large, the results arrived at by the gallant conduct of the police were of the highest possible importance. Had the police yielded for an instant the insurrection would have spread throughout the country, and had to be put down by military force. Pecuniary rewards given for ordinary good conduct were Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." The House divided:-Ayes 134; Noes 41 Majority 93. DISTURBANCES IN IRELAND-REWARDS TO THE CONSTABULARY.-QUESTION. MR. MONSELL said, he rose to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to confer any special rewards on those members of the Irish Constabulary who have distinguished themselves by meritorious services during the late disturbances, and to call his attention to the defenceless state of many of the Irish police barracks. He wished to avoid all reference not absolutely necessary to the occurrences that had lately taken place in Ireland, for, although he felt it was the duty of Parliament, with the least possible not sufficient recompense in such a case. There was a precedent and he hoped it would be followed, whereby Her Majesty might be graciously pleased to bestow on these men the highest reward of bravery, the Victoria Cross. The second part of his question related to the bad construction of the police barracks in Ireland and their generally defenceless condition. There were 1,600 barracks in Ireland, of which only about thirty belonged to the Government. The remainder were rented at a charge of between £28,000 and £29,000 a year. They were nearly all utterly defenceless. They had large windows, and no means of protection for those inside, or of resistance in case of attack. In consequence of this state of things it had been found absolutely necessary in many places to call the men from the outstations and to mass them at the larger stations-a proceeding which was most calculated to increase the panic which existed. It was absolutely necessary that Her Majesty's Government should take into consideration the defenceless state of the police barracks, which he had been informed could be put in a good state of defence for £150 each. Some difficulty might be raised with regard to the building of new barracks, in consequence of the Government having no power to take land for such a purpose; but that difficulty might easily be got over by the landowners consenting that such a power should be placed in the hands of Government. He left the matter with perfect confidence in the hands of the noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland (Lord Naas), who had shown so admirable a determination to put down party feeling, and to rely upon the ordinary operation of the law during these trying times. The noble Lord had by his conduct won the gratitude of the people of Ireland. MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE said, he cordially concurred in what had fallen from the right hon. Gentleman as to the gallant and patriotic conduct of the Irish constabulary during the late disturbances. His own experience of the demeanour of that body, and the high opinion entertained of the force by their able commander, Colonel Wood, had led him to believe that if, unfortunately, their services were required to quell disturbances such as had lately taken place, they would not be found wanting, and he was happy to find that that expectation had not been disappointed. He VOL. CLXXXVI. [THIRD SERIES.] hoped such services would not be forgotten. It must be admitted on all hands that when small bodies of the Irish constabulary found themselves attacked in the darkness of the night by large masses of men, as was the case on the high road at Tallaght, they had acted most gallantly. It was impossible for the police to know at the time the amount of the force which they had to deal with, or how formidable might be the nature of the insurrection that was moving and gathering around them on that night. It was impossible to overrate the gallant conduct of the men under these circumstances. The Irish constabulary were drawn from the Irish people, to whom they were attached by every tie of fellowship and of religion, and therefore they deserved the greater admiration for having set their misguided fellow-countrymen so noble an example of loyalty and patriotism. Turning to the question of the improvement of the police barracks of Ireland, he scarcely thought that so large a sum as £150 per barrack would be required to put them into a sufficient state of defence. It would be more than the late enemy or any they were likely to encounter was worth. In most cases by merely opening a window or a loophole or two in the rear of the barracks they would be rendered perfectly capable of being vigorously defended. He wished to ask the noble Lord (Lord Naas) whether the Bill to improve the position and pay of the Irish constabulary, which had been prepared last year by the late Government, in accordance with a Report of a Commission appointed to inquire into this subject, and which had been carried through Parliament by the present Government, had worked successfully; and whether it had answered the expectations which had been formed of it by stimulating recruiting and keeping up the force to its proper numbers. He entirely concurred in the opinion which the right hon. Gentleman had expressed with regard to the firmness, the impartiality, and the moderation which the noble Lord had shown in putting down the late disturbances. MR. HERBERT said, he could not forbear calling attention to one case which in his opinion was deserving of special attention, as it was the first of the kind that occurred. He came from that part of the country where these unfortunate occurrences first broke out, and it would be in the recollection of the House that the policeman (Duggan) going to Killington with despatches was met in the Р dark by about seventy or eighty armed men, who called upon him to surrender. He refused to do so, rode on, and would have got clear off with his despatches if he had not been shot in the back by a cowardly assassin. No compensation in money could reward that man, and if the Victoria Cross were not confined to the army he could conceive no more fitting reward for these men, as it would stimulate their bravery, though at the same time he did not think men could exert themselves more than these men had done. With regard to the question of the barracks, he thought a very little alteration in most cases would render them impregnable against attack by a mob. A door opened in a wall, a few loop-holes inserted, or even the raising of a window sill, would be all that was needed to put many of these places in a state of defence. But his main reason in rising was to express his hope that the Government would reward these men, not with money, but with something that they could wear on their breasts. the repentance of the people he was rather sceptical on that matter, but he was certain that the country people took no part in the insurrection. The insurgents were composed of the people of the towns, not of the sons of farmers, and he believed the majority of them were tailors. Fenianism under another name existed in this country as well as in Ireland. As to the barracks, many of them were merely thatched and untenable; but if the Government would give a proper rent there would be no difficulty in obtaining proper barracks, which would be erected by the landowners. While he gave all praise to the police for the defence they made, he could not forget that the feebleness of the attack showed that the hearts of the assailants were not in the work. In other circumstances they would have shown no lack of bravery. But they had been duped by American fiilibusters. LORD NAAS said, he was sure that there was no subject that could be brought under the consideration of the House that was more worthy of their consideration, or MR. BAGWELL said, he believed that which would more fully command the syman attempt at insurrection had been ren- pathies of the House; and he was sure dered abortive by the determination of the that not the House only, but the countrypolice, and that their conduct rebuked the his own country in particular-were deeply mistrust too generally entertained respect-indebted to his right hon. Friend for the ing them. Irishmen would perform their eloquent tribute he had paid to the merits trust to the letter; and in 1848 an almost of the police force, to which not Ireland purely Irish regiment, which had been wrongfully mistrusted, did its duty in acting against relatives and friends. Irish gentlemen were wont to say if any question of religion or politics disturbed the country the constabulary could not be trusted. The force ought to be treated as a civil force, and not a military one. Therefore, he objected to the proposal that the country should be studded with little forts called police barracks. He would suggest that an order of merit should be established for the constabulary forces. While favouring the punishment of the principal Fenian leaders from America, he would suggest leniency towards their humble Irish followers, who repented that they had allowed themselves to be misled. GENERAL DUNNE said, he did not know what his hon. Friend meant by a If being armed to the teeth made a force military, then he thought that character applied to the Irish police. He quite agreed that the honour and fidelity of these men deserved a reward, and he thought it ought to be given in the shape of an order of merit and a pension. As to only, but the whole country was so much indebted. On the nights of the 5th and 6th of March these men were attacked in no fewer than thirteen different places by bodies of men of unknown numbers in the dead of the night, and without any time for preparation; for though, in some instances, scanty information had been given that an attack was meditated, yet that information had been so often received, and had so often proved false, that in most cases the men paid little attention to it. The attacks were all characterized by more or less of violence, but in every case they were repulsed by a force so inferior in numbers as to be almost incredible. Such success as the police obtained on that night, could only have been attained by the thorough reliance the men had on each other, and by the firm conviction they entertained, that they were doing their duty 11,000 men, scattered over the country at 1,600 stations, and that these stations were occupied by parties varying from five to twelve or thirteen men. The average number of men in each barrack was only seven. The House would see, therefore, what discipline, good conduct, and courage must exist in a force so detached and so removed from the control ordinarily considered by military men necessary for the maintenance of discipline. Since this unfortunate Fenian movement had afflicted the country, no efforts had been spared by the emissaries of the conspiracy to seduce the constabulary from their allegiance. The same attempts which had been made, though seldom successfully, on the army, had also been made on the constabulary; but he was proud to say that in hardly a single instance did any stain rest on the character of a member of the force. Every attempt to seduce them from their allegiance had been attended with signal failure, and indeed he might say that in that respect the force was at the present moment absolutely and entirely without taint. We must remember to what temptations these men are exposed. They were constantly mixing with the people, and at the same time were necessarily much withdrawn from the care and supervision of their officers. They had, however, not only evinced a determination to resist every attempt to draw them from their allegiance, but, as witnesses, policemen and soldiers had invariably shown their willingness to discharge their duty loyally and honestly in whatever position they had been placed. It must also be borne in mind that this force was entirely recruited from the Irish people. Its ranks, it was true, were filled from a class somewhat superior to that which joined the regular army, as there was a certain qualification required, that no one was admitted into the force who could not read and write. The religion of the men was as nearly as possible in the same proportion as existed between the two creeds in the country. Nearly twothirds of them were Roman Catholics, the remaining third being Protestants. Therefore, both in their distinctions of religion and in their character, they fairly represented the great mass of the people from whom they were drawn. He entirely agreed with his right hon. Friend as to the impossibility of overrating the services rendered by the constabulary during the recent outbreak, and particularly on the night of the 5th. Every attack on a police-barrack and every attempt at armed insurrection had resulted in utter failure. It should be remembered that at the time these attacks were repelled the constabulary were ignorant as to the actual state of feeling in the country. They had been repeatedly told that a general rising was intended, and in almost every instance, when summoned to surrender and give up their arms and barracks, they were informed that the whole country was in arms, that the Irish Republic had been established, and that resistance would be useless. In the middle of the night the constables had no means of testing the accuracy of such statements or of ascertaining the number of their assailants, but there was no flinching. Every man did his duty, and defended to his utmost his post and his arms. Taking all these things into account, it was difficult to over-estimate the credit due to them for their courage, fidelity, and constancy. If the conspirators had succeeded even temporarily in one of their attempts, and had established themselves in a barrack or any place of strength, so as to form the nucleus of a disaffected force, it was impossible to say what disastrous consequences might have ensued. Therefore, it seemed to him that the country owed a lasting debt of gratitude to these men, who had defeated the conspirators whenever they had been brought in contact with them, and who had proved to the country and to the world how utterly futile and contemptible was this attempt of treason, With regard to the particular question put by his right hon. Friend, he begged to say that last week, with the concurrence of the Lord Lieutenant, he had addressed a letter to the Treasury on the subject, and a copy of that letter would at some subsequent period be laid upon the table. Before sending that letter he had communicated with the chief officers of the force as to the mode in which some token of approbation might be bestowed on those members of the force who had distinguished themselves. He was happy to say that Her Majesty's Government had assented to one of the two proposals which had been made. The second proposal was still under consideration. It was proposed that a small sum of money should be voted by the House as a special reward for those who took part in the late proceedings. It was intended not to submit that Vote in the ordinary way, among the civil contingencies, but to invite the House to pass a special Vote of £2,000, to be placed at |