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as he contended was the fact, that be- | "That the Bank, in order to pay the

tween 6,000,000l. and 7,000,000l. of capital had been lost to the country. It appeared to him, that instead of appropriating the sinking fund to the discharge of the funded debt of the country, on which it had no operation whatever, it would be better to use it for the relief of the unfunded debt. Upon this part of the finances he thought the conduct of the right hon. gentleman had not been such as was likely to prove beneficial to the country. The right hon. gentleman, in a flourishing speech, had said, that it was not expedient to carry this debt beyond certain limits. Perhaps he would say, that they were those limits which he meant, and if he did he (Mr. Maberly) would call upon the Bank of England to prove that this unfunded debt had been increased to a most dangerous amount. For these reasons, he should submit to the House certain resolutions on this subject, which he would now read; but before they were put, he should touch upon another branch of the subject, in which also he believed there had been considerable neglect. The hon. member then read the following resolutions :

"That it appears, by returns to the House, that on the 6th of January, 1826, the amount of Exchequer-bills outstanding and unpaid was, 37,502,017l. 9s. 7d. that on or about the 20th of December they were at a discount of 80s. and that it therefore became necessary to raise the interest previously granted on them, in order to prevent their being paid into the Exchequer as revenue, or a part of them being demanded in cash. And that, notwithstanding this advance of the rate of interest on Exchequer-bills, it became necessary to relieve the market by reducing the quantity on sale, which was effected by means of a large portion of them being absorbed in purchases made by the Bank, which brought them to about par at the end of the month.

"That on the 14th of February they were again at or about 21s. per cent discount, when the Bank came once more in the market, and brought them to par.

"That the Bank, from various circumstances, might not have been able thus to relieve the market without endangering its credit yet, had not relief been afforded, bills paid in as revenue might have left the Exchequer without any means of paying the dividends, provided the Bank could not advance the whole amount of them.

January dividends, having already advanced 5,548,817l. 9s. 7d. it is highly improbable that it could at such a moment make a further advance of 3,128,1831. (the additional sum necessary) without placing itself in a most hazardous situation; and it appears therefore that although the prompt relief in the purchase of Exchequer-bills given by the Bank did at the moment avert these calamitous consequences; still the danger of having such a large unfunded debt becomes strikingly obvious, by the Bank being obliged a few days since to come into the market a second time to prevent a further depreciation of them.

"That, notwithstanding the low rate of interest which has been paid on Exchequerbills, it has been both inexpedient and dangerous to leave so large an amount of debt unfunded; not only for the reasons stated in the foregoing resolution, but because it might have been funded on most advantageous terms, and at a saving of some millions to the country, whilst by leaving it unfunded until a period of political difficulty arrives, it cannot fail seriously to affect public credit, and to impair the energies of the country; and that it appears therefore to this House, that it is highly expedient to reduce the unfunded debt within more reasonable limits."

These were the resolutions which he thought it expedient to propose in this part of his speech. But he considered it proper to state that, in his opinion, considerable error and mismanagement had prevailed upon another most important subject; namely, in respect of the general public debt. It was well known to every hon. gentleman who heard him, that there had been, some time ago, introduced into that House a measure of considerable notoriety respecting what was since known as "the dead weight." This had been upon parliament, Heaven knew! a dead weight ever since; and so long as the arrangement in question existed was likely to prove so. It had, from the first moment of its being proposed for their adoption, involved them all in considerable difficulty; and, if it were not removed, it could not fail to involve them still more. In 1822, a noble lord, now no more, had come down to the House and had declared, that it was impossible the country could be saved unless it possessed a clear sinking fund of 5,000,000%. [hear.1

advance the whole of the money necessary
for its purchase. But the Bank certainly
came forward, and did buy up an enor-
mous amount. They purchased this dead-
weight annuity up to the year 1828, and
to the amount of 13,000,000l. having
already advanced other 8,000,000l. upon
other accounts. The whole measure was,
in every respect, one of the most danger-
ous which had ever been resorted to;
and not the less so, as to the connection of
the Bank with it. The Bank might now
say, probably, "what fools we were not
to sell this amount when we could have
parted with it." But he doubted much
whether the Bank could ever re-sell any
considerable portion of their purchase
without, at all events, considerably alarm-
ing the country. Their advances had
been enormous, and it would have had an
injurious effect for them to have come
into the money market, with a view of
endeavouring to replace the capital they
had, in this particular instance, expended.
At no former period of that company's
history, had they ever been under such
immense advances upon security, without
convertibility. For the question was not
as to the amount of the securities it might
hold, on these accounts, but as to their
greater or less degree of convertibility.
He much doubted whether the Bank ever
could convert its share of this annuity.
But, was this the only weight which now
pressed upon that concern? By no
means. They had advanced about
5,500,000l. upon deficiency-bills.
was admitted, moreover, in a recent
speech of the right hon. gentleman op-
posite, that they had made advances
upon Exchequer-bills to the extent of

He was stating these things with a view of showing how completely the country had been imposed upon. That plan for transferring the dead-weight was adopted by the vote of a large majority of the House. No sooner had the noble lord he was speaking of retired home, after carrying this measure, than he began to perceive-probably from its not having been greeted with all the cheers he had expected that his financial schemes did not seem to be well relished by his hon. friends on the same side of the House; for they had anticipated a reduction in the malt tax of 2,000,000/. This dead-weight measure, which the noble lord assured the House was perfectly correct and expedient, was, in fact, a grant by government, or the public rather, of an annuity of 2,800,000l. for a term of 45 years. This loan, therefore, imposed a total debt upon the country of no less than 75,000,000/. [hear]. He was perfectly accurate in stating it at this amount; for, by returns which he held in his hand, the value of this annuity, now that it had a term of 41 years, to run was, according to the estimate of the most experienced accountants, 74,632,000l. The loan, therefore, which government, by reason of granting such annuity, might be said to have taken up, was undoubtedly the largest that had ever been raised in this country. In fourteen days after propounding and procuring the sanction of parliament to this plan, the government came down and said, that nothing could possibly save the country but a clear sinking fund of 5,000,000/. But inasmuch as only a fortnight before, the noble lord had held out precisely the same doctrine with regard to the dead-7,000,000l. It was well known that they

weight scheme, the government, in effect, by this latter proposal, violated their own recorded principles, and deserted their own plans. Great opposition was manifested to this measure, and, if he remembered rightly, the House divided upon it no less than twelve several times. Even in the very last stage of the measure, they went to a division upon it. His late lamented friend, the hon. member for Portarlington (Mr. Ricardo), strenuously argued against it; and every time it was proposed to be agitated, made a point of remaining in the House on purpose to oppose it. That gentleman, indeed, always predicted the very serious evils that must arise from it. It might be affirmed as to this dead weight, that the Bank did not VOL. XIV.

It

had also issued about 3,000,000l. to pay off the dissentients, under the operation of converting the fives into four per cents; and latterly they had issued 2,000,000l. more in order to keep the market price of Exchequer-bills at par. Taking one matter with another, the Bank had advanced altogether about 25,000,000l.; from which, deducting about five millions and a half for the deficiency bills, there would be a total of 20,000,000l., in round numbers, advanced by the Bank to the government. Still, it would seem, that they had not had enough of advances; for, upon another scheme that of loans upon mortgagesthey had lent 1,400,000l. Now, from such extensive engagements, he would defy the Bank to disengage itself, without en

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tailing upon the country the most ruinous consequences. There was but one way in which it could be disenthralled, at all; and that was for the right hon. gentleman opposite to issue Exchequer-bills very largely. What would any hon. gentleman venture to predict of the effects on public credit that must follow upon the Bank beginning to unlade themselves either of their share of the dead weight, or of those other securities which he had mentioned? Those securities were not convertible within any such period of time as would be necessary to save the credit of the Bank, were it under a necessity of converting them. It was now altogether, it might be objected, a dangerous and inconvenient time to attempt any thing like such a conversion. But the way to disengage the Bank from this unfortunate bargain would be at once to annihilate the act of parliament which had granted, in the first instance, these most extraordinary, inconvenient, and dangerous means of raising money.

He now proceeded to advert to another topic of singular moment; he meant the account which had been rendered to parliament of the public debt of this country. The results given by that account were very different from those which really existed. The capital of that debt, he would undertake to say, was absolutely above 100,000,000/. more than the sum at which the government of the country had put it down. He by no means imputed this error in their statement, enormous as it was, to any improper motive, or to design on their part. After passing over in detail the various items of debt arising out of the 5, 4, 34, and 3 per cents. the account omitted altogether the debt due on the life annuities and the long annuities. On this very large proportion of the public debt, they had forgotten to put any value whatever; and, more especially, no account whatever was taken of that absurd and ruinous charge (a charge to which it was difficult for him to assign, with any degree of temper, a distinctive name) the dead-weight annuity. Now, by the government's own accountants the valuation of those charges had been elsewhere made; and the total amount, as upon these items, was nearly 101,000,000l.; and that amount, therefore, was to be taken in addition to the total sum of the national debt, as this had been officially held out to the country up to the present hour. If this were so if he was correct

(and correct he contended tha in this statement-the interes debt must of course have bee in the same erroneous way-an returned. By a paper, which in the hands of every hon. m very few days, it would appea national debt, on the 5th c 1819, was 832,000,000l. The now stood, notwithstanding o sinking fund of 5,000,000l., = amount of our yearly taxation moderately increased. For wh total enlarged to in January compared with what it was in 1 peared, upon a return signe Finlayson, the actuary at the Debt Office, and by Mr. Hyam, was an increase of 61,646,636/ annuities being valued upon principles in both years, 1819 Then, how stood the charge statement? Why, at a sum more at present than it was seven years only having elapse period. Thus the House wou we had an enlarged debt, and interest-nearly 62,090,000/capital, and upwards of 31,00 charge, being the amount of since January, 1819; and al withstanding government cons had saved the country between and 1,600,000l. by the reduc five per cents to four per cent would ask, in spite of this benefit, how came our condit better? Had the right hon afforded the country any int such was the state of its this statement had been kep in the back ground. Figures p but hitherto these figures ha to light. Let him not be told not an accumulating debt; fo be but to repeat what had too successfully done: it w throw dust in the eyes of all And, certainly the right hon in the discharge of those dutie these statements were connec pear to have been completel a deplorable fatuity. Year a country had been told that out of debt. But when the I alluded to should have been pi hon. member who would be of judging for himself, wou that the measures of the gove retarded, almost beyond calc

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period at which, by any possibility, that anticipation could be realized. The Bank had been again recently called upon for a very considerable advance-and that advance to be made on a species of security which they could not, at pleasure, turn into money. Really, he was obliged to declare, that although hitherto the country bankers had been exceedingly blamed on all hands for their over-issues, the fact was, that his majesty's government had had more notes or bills out, than, if they had been suddenly called upon, they could by possibility have met; and that at one period, the Bank itself had had more notes out than, upon an emergency, it could have met. He did not mean to say that the Bank had a general overissue of paper; but that abstractedly, and with reference to the premises he had stated, they had had such an over-issue. There even now remained a very large proportion of this dead-weight, as it was called, to sell. He should like to ask the right hon. gentleman, whom he proposed, in his own mind, as a purchaser for that remaining portion?-He had already filled the hands of the Bank of England. While he mentioned this fact, he thought he saw a smile upon the face of his hon. friend opposite, the Bank director, which seemed to say, that in truth the Bank had got enough of it. Would the right hon. gentleman proffer it to the South-Sea company? Whether or no the public would be disposed to buy it off his hands, it was perhaps not difficult to anticipate. Certain it was, that the hon. gentlemen who surrounded the chancellor of the Exchequer were never very strenuous in support of the original proposition. He had wish to embarrass the right hon. gentleman; but he really would advise him to say to parliament, "We will do this act away altogether, we will come to our senses; and for myself, I declare, that * so long as I may have the honour of being a member of the government, never will I propose such another scheme as this, the mischiefs and danger of which I have seen so clearly." He did therefore strenuously advise him to get rid of the dead weight, by annihilating the act under which the arrangement for its transfer was effected; and further, to clear himself by funding Exchequer-bills. By that means alone could he meet the difficulties to which he was otherwise liable; for, in that case, come what might, he would find himself free to act; and surely it was the

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worst policy which any government could adopt, to allow its hands to be fettered in money matters of this nature, at the moment when perfect freedom of action might be most necessary. There would be no disgrace in the right hon. gentleman's abandoning such a measure as the dead weight. The only disgrace, after this night, would consist in his adhering to it. In regard to that measure, he repeated his conviction, that the right hon. gentleman never had the cordial support of many of his colleagues; and it was to be recollected that no former chancellor of the Exchequer had ever enjoyed the support of more able, more active, more intelligent, or more popular colleagues; or colleagues of more extensive practical information upon all matters connected with the political interests of the country. He did therefore hope and trust, that when the right hon. gentleman should come down to the House next Monday, he would declare to parliament that he would have no more to do with this measure, but would re-model it, and throw the charge accruing upon it on the sinking fund, or some other source of income. Such injurious arrangements, at once so dangerous and so inconvenient to the country, the right hon. gentleman should certainly take the earliest opportunity of recalling and abolishing. If the country should not be exposed to any new necessity for such a course of proceeding, there could be no danger in adopting it; but if it should be, in how much better a situation would she not be placed by reason of having adopted it? Connected with these concluding observations, he begged to submit the second part of his resolutions: "That, although, by a vote of this House, five millions were declared necessary as a sinking fund to uphold public credit, by diminishing the national debt, yet, in the course of a very few days after that declaration, the House came to the determination of granting an annuity of 2,800,000l. for 45 years, thereby increasing the public debt many millions (by return to the House, March 1826, 74,632,051l.), and at the same time violating the very principle which it had declared to be the only one by which public credit could be supported.

"That part of the said annuity, amounting to 585,740/. for 44 years, was sold to the Bank of England for 13,089,4247., payable by instalments, the last of which falls due in July, 1828, and part, amount

ing to 2,214,200l. still remains unsold, to the value of nearly 50,000,000l.; and that, under present circumstances, it will be inexpedient to sell the remaining part of the said annuity, and that it will be expedient to repeal so much of the act granting the said annuity as relates to the part unsold, and to charge the amount necessary to defray the naval and military pensions from July, 1828, on the consolidated or sinking fund.

"That the capital of the funded unredeemed debt of the United Kingdom stood in the finance accounts, on the 5th of January, 1825, at 781,123,2221. 15s. 6d., whereas, the real capital debt of the country approaches to nearly 900,000,000l. inasmuch as the capital of the terminable annuities is not included in the above sum."

Mr. Herries rose, and expressed his intention of detaining the House but for a short time in answering the observations of the hon. member for Abingdon. The hon. member had confined his speech to two points. In the first, he took a retrospective view of the conduct of government with respect to the unfunded debt; and in the other, he had alluded, with no small condemnation, to the manner in which the government had managed the funded debt. The hon. member had accused the government of confusion in making up the accounts of the funded debt. The confusion existed only in the ideas of the honourable member; and greater confusion than prevailed there he had never known. The hon. member, some time ago, had called for a paper, to show the state of the funded debt, which the House ordered to be produced. The hon. member had directed, that in that paper an estimate should be made of the total value of the annuity of 2,800,000l. set apart for providing for the charge of the military half-pay. This estimate was set down under last year's head alone, and the consequence was, that in that year, as compared with former years, there appeared an enormous difference in the amount of the funded debt. Upon this mistake, created by the hon. member himself, he had raised an argument as erroneous as its basis. The hon. member had charged the government with not having effected the reduction of the national debt. He begged to call the attention of the House to this subject. The bullion committee of 1819 recommended, that the unfunded debt should

be reduced to the extent of 10,000,000%.; and he was able to show, that government had not only complied with that recommendation, but gone beyond it. From the time of the report of the bullion committee up to the present moment, government had discharged upwards of 13,000,000l. of the unfunded debt. In order to make the subject perfectly intelligible, it was necessary to explain the nature of the unfunded debt. It was divided into two parts. One part, consisting of Exchequer-bills, was called the unprovided debt; and the other part, existing merely by anticipation of the funds by which at a limited period it was to be discharged, was called the provided debt. When he spoke of the reduction of the unfunded debt, it would be understood that he alluded only to that part of it which was unprovided. To the unprovided debt, no addition had been made since the date of the report of the bullion committee; on the contrary, it had been made the subject of gradual reduction. On the 5th of January 1819, the unprovided debt stood at 19,480,000/.; on the 5th of January 1826, it stood at 6,139,000l. The chief reduction in the amount of this debt took place in the first three years after the recommendation of the bullion committee. In 1820, 1821, and 1822, it was reduced 10,000,000/., and in 1823, and 1824, it was reduced 3,000,000/., making a total reduction of 13,000,000. Now, he asked the House, whether this perseverance in the gradual reduction of the amount of debt exhibited any inattention on the part of government to this important subject? The question raised by the hon. member was this-whether it would have been wiser for ministers to have funded the Exchequer-bills, or raised money to pay them off, or to have adopted those measures which had relieved the country from a portion of taxation, and enabled us to enter upon a more liberal system of commercial policy? It was impossible that government could have adopted both plans. If they had funded the Exchequer-bills, they would thereby have been prevented from pursuing the other advantageous measures to which he had alluded. They could not row two ways at once. Was there any thing in the state of the country which should have induced ministers to resort to the expedient of funding Exchequer-bills? The hon. member had indulged in some talk about government being overwhelmed

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