the several divisions. These are the premium remittances received on United States Government converted insurance. It is given for November as well as previous months. Taking November, however, for converted insurance, $2,993,000, and on term insurance, $846,000. That covers 119,127 term policyholders and for the converted insurance it covers 142,890 policyholders.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you mean that those are all the policyholders we have now?

General HINES. No; 162,851 term policies and 384,860 converted policies are in force, making a total of 547,711.

Mr. RANKIN. That includes all those who are carrying Government insurance of any kind as a result of the war?

General HINES. Yes. It does not cover any awarded claims including automatic awards. I refer to the automatic insurance of $25 a month.

Mr. FITZGERALD. General, may I ask if this annual report in any place presents a résumé of the insurance situation from the beginning? That is, does it show how much money was received from premiums during the war? I understand that there was an enormous amount accumulated, a lot of which was pure profit in the hands of the Government, something like $400,000,000. Many boys abandoned their insurance, and no claims were presented for any parts of the sums paid in. Of course, that became a great fund, and I was wondering if this report in any way took into account that sum, and presented a résumé of the entire situation.

General HINES. It does. It covers the activities from the start. That total covers all the premiums on Government insurance.

Premiums received on term insurance by sources for fiscal years

Mr. SWEET. Permit me to go back to the subject of vocational training. You say that that has resulted in many cases of higher salaries being paid since the war than prior to the war. Has that been due to a higher class of employment by reason of this vocational training, or would it not be to some extent due to the fact that the general wage has been higher since the war than previously?

General HINES. Wherever it has been possible we have taken into account the wage increase and try to analyze the effect of the training solely. In those cases which we claim are receiving better sal

aries and better wages we charge that entirely to the improvement of the man's ability to earn.

Mr. SWEET. And he may be employed, perhaps, in a new line of occupation.

General HINES. In many cases entirely a new line. Of course, the law contemplated that exactly. It contemplated that we would change men who, due to their disability incurred in the war, were unable to go back and take up their pre-war occupations. In carrying out the law it was the intent, above all things, to train a man for a new vocation that would fit his disability.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. General, can you tell us how many men have been trained?

General HINES. Approximately 114,000 men have completed their training.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. 51,000 of them have better jobs than they had before the war?

General HINES. That does not mean that the difference between 51,000 and 114,000 have no jobs. It means that these men have been improved to a marked degree. Of the total number of men who have been rehabilitated, very few of them are out of employment. We feel that it is our duty to follow up these men, even though we get them employment upon their rehabilitation, to continue them in employment. The last statement I had of unemployed men who had been rehabilitated throughout the United States showed that there were about 1,200.

Mr. RANKIN. General, I would like to ask you again-you went over this before, but I would like to have it again-the amount of the premiums now on hand that have been collected as a result of this war-risk insurance.

General HINES. While that is being looked up, I will say that in connection with this great drop in the number of policyholders, I feel that one of the principal reasons for that is due to the fact that the bureau has no appropriation for advertising or making a campaign of insurance.

All attempts to effect reinstatements of insurance or to persuade men to continue their insurance is done with a machine set up for other purposes; in other words, it is a side line.

We make no special expenditures for that purpose, and Congress on one or two occasions has refused to appropriate for that purpose. At one time we had, as you know, something like $40,000,000,000 of insurance in force covering 4,500,000 policyholders.

The drop in the number of policyholders is due, I think, in large measure, to the fact that the men may not fully realize the advantages of the insurance. It may be due to a lack of ability, of course, to pay the premiums.

Mr. RANKIN. In a great many instances, also, life insurance companies have written policies which they argue to the ex-service man will take the place of this insurance with benefits that the Government insurance does not have. Of course, I think they are wrong about that.

General HINES. They are wrong. There is no form of insurance that is cheaper or more liberal than Government insurance.

Mr. RANKIN. I understand that.

General HINES. We take risks that no other insurance company would think of taking, I shall ask Mr. Hiller to give those amounts which were asked before.

Mr. HILLER. We have received in premiums on term insurance $438,000,000.

General HINES. That is yearly renewable term insurance, warrisk insurance.

Mr. HILLER. We have expended $690,000,000 on claims.

Mr. RANKIN. You have expended more than you have received? Mr. HILLER. Yes. We have received in premiums for all time, term insurance $438,326,000 and have disbursed on claims on account of term insurance $690,354,000, the balance being made up by appropriation from Congress.

Mr. FITZGERALD. So that we have absorbed the great mass of what you might call profit brought about by the insistence of officers in the Army that their men take insurance, sometimes when the men had no dependents and did not want it. Those men dropped it as soon as they could. At any rate, that was a kind of profit which amounted to an enormous sum in 1919 and 1920. That has been absorbed.

General HINES. Congressman, the curve I indicated before shows that. You can see where the two curves cross.

Mr. RANKIN. We have approximately $2,800,000,000 in force now? General HINES. Yes.

Mr. MILLIGAN. Are you correct in your figures as to the number who are now carrying insurance?

General HINES. Yes.

As of November 30-this is the statement made each month-term insurance in force, number of policies, 162,851 with a total amount of $1,265,754,520.

The United States Government life insurance in force is divided up into the various forms, twenty-payment life, twenty-year endowment and the total number of insurance policies is 384,860 with a total of $1,550,213,845.68 insurance in force.

Mr. MILLIGAN. That would make a total of 547,000 policy holders? General HINES. That makes a total of 547,711 policies with an amount of insurance of $2,815,968,000 in force.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. General, referring again to rehabilitation, you say that there are 114,000 men who have been rehabilitated. How many of those men are still disabled and drawing compensation?

General HINES. I do not have that data before me, but I can give it to you. I know that we have it in the bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you insert that in the record, General?
General HINES. Yes; I shall be glad to do that.

Approximately 70,629 men who have completed training are now receiving compensation.

The CHAIRMAN. General Hines, may I suggest that in going over this testimony, as we have been jumping from one subject to another, will you as nearly as you can, bring all the questions and answers pertaining to one subject together?

General HINES. I will put all the insurance matters together and all the questions relating to compensation together, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions on this general subject?

Mrs. ROGERS. General Hines, how many men, in fact, will not be rehabilitated by June, 1926?

General HINES. They will all be rehabilitated. I suppose what you wish to know is how many of those are in courses which, if the law did not require us to complete them by June 30, would have been extended.

Mrs. ROGERS. For instance, you have a good many men in professional courses. These men may have been ill and may not have been able to finish the course and will not have a degree by that time. In Boston alone there are a good many cases of that kind.

General HINES. Of the 13,000 men now in training, approximately 50 per cent, or 6,500, are in institutional courses. It is esti . mated that half of those, or about 3,250, will be in training as of the last date, i. e., June 30, 1926. How many of these would continue their training if the law were extended is problematical, but I feel that probably most of them would.

Mrs. ROGERS. For instance, there were a number of men in hospitals who were not able to have any real training. They perhaps had taken two months of training and then had their course interrupted and had taken two months more; but, as a matter of fact, they have had very little training.

General HINES. Of course, it is rather hard to estimate that number. We only know that of all our hospital load, there is a very small number who have been in the hospitals all the time, so that they could not have been trained for at least some period, but the feasibility of training would rest on a physical examination of the number of men who are not in hospitals who has disabilities that have resulted in handicaps.

We have made an estimate of that, but that does not give the exact number of men. We have worked this estimate out on the basis of training quarters or training hours.

This shows that we would induct into training, if the law were extended, a total of 6,530 men, approximately as follows: First year, 2,140; second year, 2,275; and third year, 2,125.

Mr. VINCENT. There is a certain amount of discrimination which the closing down would result in. For example, the man whom you mentioned, whom you have rehabilitated in law and who had made such an outstanding success is an example of a case that might happen under this regulation. I know of a comparable case, that of a young man who was prevented by his disability from getting into vocational rehabilitation as soon as some of the others. He will have completed either a three or a four year course in dentistry. He lacks one year of completing the course. You can see how he would be affected by this.

General HINES. There are individual cases of that kind which inerit consideration.

Mr. VINCENT. Do you think that the committee ought to consider some sort of relief in respect to them?

General HINES. The bureau has a recommendation with respect to those cases. I have gone on record myself as to those cases before various conventions. There is a provision in the bill with respect to that.

Mr. CONNERY. You state that the bill will make some provision for that. If we should pass a provision that would lengthen the time in which they can receive rehabilitation, extend it another year or two years, that would take care of only the men who are in the hospitals?

General HINES. No; it takes care of all of them. The legislation drafted now would take care of most, if not all, of those cases. It takes care of every case where rehabilitation has not been completed according to the past rules of the game.

The CHAIRMAN. May I suggest that this would all be met in detail in your testimony on that particular section of the bill? Perhaps we might expedite matters if we started a discussion of the measure itself.

Mr. MILLIGAN. May I make the suggestion that we take this up section by section?

The CHAIRMAN. That is as we strike a certain section, discuss only things pertaining to that section. I think that is the way we should proceed.

General HINES. I am ready to proceed.

The CHAIRMAN. If you are ready to proceed and are finished with your general statement, will you discuss section 4, page 1 of the bill? General HINES. Section 4, page 1 of H. R. 4474 makes provisions for chaplains in hospitals.

The present method of handling that situation in our hospitals is to appoint chaplains at a nominal salary, usually a dollar a year, with quarters and subsistence.

We have in our hospitals now 20 chaplains serving at a nominal salary, at 14 hospitals.

That indicates that at some of the hospitals we have more than one chaplain. That is desirable because we have men of more than one religious sect in our hospitals.

We have not recommended this provision. The provision was inserted in the bill last year, I believe, at the request of Congressman Bulwinkle. We have calculated that the cost of this increase necessitated by the appointment of one chaplain at $3,000 a year in each hospital would amount to $153,000.

The bureau would prefer its present method, because if one chaplain were appointed and he should not meet the religious needs of all the patients of that hospital, we would probably be called upon to appoint another chaplain at that hospital.

I have a feeling that the present method is working out well, and no information has come to the bureau indicating otherwise.

We can appoint one or two now and would not be called upon to place on the Government's rolls perhaps three chaplains for one hospital.

Mr. MILLIGAN. There are some hospitals where you had two and where there has been some conflict, are there not?

General HINES. Where there is a conflict, I have found that by taking up the matter with headquarters of the particular church to which the man belongs, that a shift clears the matter up very quickly. Those conflicts have been very few in number.

Mr. MILLIGAN. The one I had in mind was, I believe, at the Soldiers' Home.