Quest. 7. Whether the church of England, as it standeth now established, be the true established church of Christ; and whether the people therein be the true and faithful people of God, or no?

Answ. I think that these parish assemblies, as they stand generally in England, are not the true established churches of Christ; and that the people, as they now stand in disorder and confusion in them, are not to be held the true and faithful people of Christ. Here the judge Anderson took exception, as the bishop of London also, at these words 'parish assemblies.' I answered the judge, that I could not for some weighty respects spare him that word; for I doubted not, but that the Lord had many precious and elect vessels among them, whom he will in his own good time call forth, whom it became not me absolutely to judge, lest I should enter into God's seat: Yet I could not, in the mean time, while they stand members of these assemblies, count them faithful. To the bishop I said, that when they should better consider of mine answer, they should have less cause to find fault.

Much trouble we had before we could agree of the state and words of their questions, with putting out and changing; which discourses it is not my purpose here to set down, so much as the questions and answers agreed upon and recorded; although, for some causes known to myself, and to some of their consciences, which may hereafter

be known to all the world, I thought it not impertinent to insert this.

Quest. 8. Whether he thinketh the Queen's Majesty be supreme governor of the church; and whether she may make laws for the church, which are not contrary to the word of God, or no?

Answ. I think the Queen's Majesty supreme governor of the whole land, and over the church. also, bodies and goods; but I think that no prince, neither the whole world, neither the church itself, may make any laws for the church, other than Christ hath already left in his word. Yet I think it the duty of every Christian, and principally of the prince, to inquire out and renew the laws of God, and stir up all their subjects to more diligent and careful keeping of the same.

As we had much ado to come to the state of this question, so the bishops showed themselves evil satisfied with my answer, and said, that the papists dealt more simply than I did; and surely they very grievously interrupted me with slanders, evil speeches, and blasphemies, during the time of my writing these answers, especially the bishop of London; so that I was even enforced sometime to turn unto him, and show him of his shameless untruths and slanders. The chief justice of England here said, that he thought I answered very directly and compendiously. Here again, upon some speech that arose, the judge Anderson asked me, Whether I thought it lawful to hang a thief or no? I answered, that there were many kinds of

thieves, as sacrilegious thieves, men-stealers, etc.; that these ought by the laws of God to die. Then, he said, he meant ordinary thieves of goods and chattels. I said, that God in the law had ordained another kind of punishment for such; whereupon the bishop framed this question.

Quest. 9. Whether it be lawful for the prince to alter the judicial law of Moses, according to the state of her country and policy, or no?

Answ. I ought to be wise in sobriety, and not to answer more than I know. Great doubt and controversy hath been about this question a long time, but for my part, I cannot see that any more of the judicial law was or can be abrogated by any mortal man or country, upon what occasion soever, than belonged to the ceremonial law and worship of the temple, from which we have received other laws and worship in Christ's testament; but that the judgments, due and set down by God for the transgression of the moral law, cannot be changed or altered, without injury to the moral law and God himself. Yet this, as all my other answers by protestation, that, if any man. can better instruct me therein by the word of God, I am always ready to change my mind. Whereupon the chief justice of England said, I spoke well; and therefore said, If I was in doubt, mine answer ought not to be taken. I said, I doubted not, but had set down my mind. Yet the bishops, because my answer fitted not their turns, as I think, commanded the question and answer to be blotted

out.

Quest. 10. Whether he thinketh that any private man may take upon him to reform, if the prince will not, or neglect?

I asked, whether they meant of a public reformation of the State, or of a private or personal reformation of himself and his family: it was said of a public reformation.

Answ. I think that no man may intermeddle with the prince's office, without lawful calling thereunto; and therefore it is utterly unlawful for any private man to reform the State, without his good liking and license, because the prince shall account for the defaults of his public government, and not private men, so they be not guilty with the prince in his offences, but abstain and keep themselves pure from doing or consenting to any unlawful thing commanded by the prince, which they must do, as they tender their own salvation.

Quest. 11. Whether he thinketh that every parish, or particular church, ought to have a presbytery?

Answ. The holy government of Christ belongeth not to the profane or unbelieving, neither can it, without manifest sacrilege, be set over these parishes, as they now stand in confusion, no difference made betwixt the faithful and unbelieving, all being indifferently received into the body of the church; but over every particular congregation of Christ there ought to be an eldership, and every such congregation ought, to their uttermost power, to endeavor thereunto."

*Harleian Miscellany, vol. 11. pp. 19-21.

At the close of this examination, Mr. Barrowe was again remanded to prison, in the Gatehouse, and there kept until about May, 1587, when he and Mr. Greenwood were let out under bonds of £260 apiece; but we are quite sure that it was not on any "show of their conformity" to the reigning church, as Sir George Paule asserts." Their entire history shows that they were not the men to make any pretence of this kind; and sure we are, that their experience of prison life in no degree quenched their love for the cause which they had deliberately espoused, and had fearlessly defended so long. But being "let go, they went to their own company;" and having reported all that the chief priests and rulers had said and done to them, they probably set themselves immediately at work to comfort and instruct the little persecuted band of Christians who still insisted on worshipping God agreeably to the dictates of their own consciences; and for this purpose met in each others' houses, in the woods at Deptford and Islington, in Nicholas Lane, in a garden-house near Bedlem, and wherever else they dared, to hear the Scriptures expounded, and to pray and confer together.†

Paule's Whitgift, p. 59. "The foresaid broachers [Barrowe and Greenwood] of these opinions, at this their first convention, made show of their conformity, upon conference with some divines; and in hope thereof were enlarged upon bonds; but all in vain." See also Brook, 11. 38, 39.

† See the Examinations of "John Clarke, husbandman," "Edward Grave, fishmonger," and "Roger Waterer, servant to Robert Pavye," in Life of Penry, pp. 100, 101.