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Colonel ERNST. Mr. Shonts, after this evidence was given, telegraphed this to Mr. Stevens:

Confidential.]
STEVENS, Panama:

MARCH 16, 1906.

Burr and Parsons testified in favor sea level and strongly against lock, asserting Gatun Hill not large enough to permit construction three locks in series with usable length exceeding 790 feet each, and proper foundation dam not attainable. Noble testified in favor of lock canal, but had no figures to refute statements about length Gatun Hill.

SHONTS.

MARCH 17, 1906.

SHONTS, Washington:

Cablegram of 16th received. I have just made careful personal examination exact site Gatun dam. There is ample length with perfect foundations for longer locks than reported by minority of board. Contradict Burr and Parsons on my authority, and say that if nature had intended triple locks there she could not have arranged matters better.

STEVENS.

The Secretary of War also telegraphed to Mr. Stevens, on the 18th of March, as follows:

STEVENS, Panama:

MARCH 18, 1906.

Would it not be wise for you to examine and measure Gatun Hill with reference to the question raised by Burr and Parsons? It ought to be done, if done at all, at once.

Reply, dated March 20, 1906:

ISTHMIAN, Washington:

TAFT.

Replying to Secretary Taft cable, 18th, I say limits in length required for twin triple locks, Gatun, 3,100 feet; in width 300 feet. Have fully developed by one hundred borings, 3,800 feet in length and 300 width, on exact site, perfect foundations, and can build two sets of three locks, each 1,150 feet long if necessary, and perhaps much longer. Conditions ideal for construction and permanency.

STEVENS.

Senator MORGAN. Is that two sets in flight, or three, that you mention?

Colonel ERNST. Three.

Senator MORGAN. Three in flight?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; they are double, but there is a flight of three. Senator KITTREDGE. What was the total length that he found there? Colonel ERNST. He says enough to make

Senator KITTREDGE. I mean the total length.

Colonel ERNST. He says enough to make three locks 1,150 feet long each.

Senator KITTREDGE. Does that mean that the aggregate length suitable for the lock structure is three times 1,150 feet?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; that is what that means.

Senator MORGAN. Three times 1,150 feet?

Senator KITTREDGE. That means there is 3,450 feet there?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; it means more than that. It means that there is that plus the space required for the structure outside of the locks themselves.

Senator KITTREDGE. That is what I was getting at.

Colonel ERNST. That is the way he describes it-that it is abundant to build locks 1,150 feet long or more, but of course you can not build a lock without giving the proper supports outside of the locks themselves.

It is stated here in the first place that they cut down their length from 1,000 to 900 feet because they did not have room. That shows that that was not the reason.

It is stated also that the 900 feet is short. Now, here is the original drawing filed with the Commission, which I brought up here so that you could see for yourselves. It covers four different studies. The only one which we are concerned with now is this one [indicating], which is the Gatun locks in flight of three. I have had a tracing taken of that part, but I thought I would bring the whole thing here so that you can see that this is the original drawing filed by that Consulting Board.

In describing a lock engineers have to use two lengths, one being the total length of the chamber, which they use in computing the volume of water that is required to fill it, but in that must be included room enough for the gates to swing. You can not put in a ship the total length of the chamber. So they have another length that they call the usable length,, which is less.

Senator KITTREDGE. What is the difference between the two?
Colonel ERNST. What is the difference?

Senator KITTREDGE. Yes.

Colonel ERNST. In this case it is 55 feet.

Senator KITTREDGE. At each end?

Colonel ERNST. No, sir; the total length. The length here, between point posts, from quoin to quoin-perhaps the better expression would be "gateposts."

Senator KITTREDGE. I understand what they are.

Colonel ERNST. The distance between the gateposts in this case is 955 feet. That is adjusted so as to give 900 feet clear, allowing for these gates to swing.

Senator KITTREDGE. Do you not have gates swinging at each end of your lock structure?

Colonel ERNST. Not swinging in the chamber; they are outside. They do not swing both ways, you know. Here is the chamber. The gates have to swing around into these recesses at that end [indicating]. They do the same thing at this end [indicating], but of course they do not interfere with the length of the lock chamber.

The distance from quoin to quoin—that is, between the gate posts— in this case is 955 feet in order to give 900 feet of usable length. It

is said that in that upper lock they have put this guard gate into that chamber and have encroached on it in that way. They have put it into the chamber, but they have not encroached on it.

Senator KITTREDGE. I wish you would tell us just why they have not made that encroachment.

Colonel ERNST. That is what I had this diagram made for. This [referring to diagram] is upstream. You see, the gates all point that way. This is upstream. In the case of a boat entering the lock upstream both these gates stand open. The boat comes down here to this gate and stops. This upper gate is then closed. Now you have got three gates closed. Then this gate is opened; the boat is pushed forward 80 feet

Senator KITTREDGE. How pushed forward?

Colonel ERNST. By capstans, or whatever power is used for moving the boat. She is moved forward by her own power, or by some other power; probably by capstans.

Senator KITTREDGE. What distance?

Colonel ERNST. Eighty feet. This does encroach if you want to close all the gates at the same time; it does encroach 80 feet in that event. The distance here, between these two quoin posts, is 80 feet, but it does not prevent your putting through there a 900-foot boat and still having your summit level protected at all times by two or three gates; never less than two gates. The ship comes in here, and this gate is closed behind her. This one is open. She goes forward 80 feet and stops there.

Senator KITTREDGE. And stops, you say?

Colonel ERNST. And stops; yes. The difference is that it takes from seven to eight minutes longer for the ship to get through. That is the difference.

Senator KITTREDGE. After she stops, what happens?

Colonel ERNST. Then this other gate is closed.

Senator KITTREDGE. Which other gate?

Colonel ERNST. This second gate. Here are two gates.

Senator KITTREDGE. You mean by "the second gate," the safety gate?

Colonel ERNST. Well, we usually call the upper one the guard gate; but the second gate is closed, that gate [indicating] is closed, and there is the position [indicating]; and there are still two gates always protecting the upper level.

Senator KITTREDGE. If it does not interrupt you, I would like to know a little more about that situation. Your safety gates are in your upper lock; is that right?

Colonel ERNST. One is inside and one is outside.

Senator KITTREDGE. But they are connected with your upper-lock structure?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; yes, sir.

Senator KITTREDGE. Now, where with reference to the structure are

the safety gates? Describe it so that it will appear in the record.
Colonel ERNST. I do not think I understand that.

Senator KITTREDGE. Do you have safety gates at each end?
Colonel ERNST. Yes..

Senator KITTREDGE. Now, how far

Colonel ERNST. Oh, I think I do understand you now. Ordinarily there would be simply one gate at each end. For the purposes of safety

an additional gate is put up, which we call guard gates or safety gates. One of those is put outside of this space which has been devoted, we will say, to a lock without safety gates. The other one is put inside. The distance which this is above that one is 80 feet.

Senator KITTREDGE. Do not say "this one above that one;" describe it so that we can put it into the record.

Colonel ERNST. The distance of the quoin post of the guard gate from the other gate is 80 feet; and it would encroach that much on the usable length of the lock if you had to keep all your gates closed at the same time.

Senator KITTREDGE. In other words, it would reduce the usable length to 820 feet? Is that it?

Colonel ERNST. That is it. Yes; exactly--if you had to close all your gates at the same time; but you do not have to do that.

Senator KITTREDGE. Suppose you put a ship 900 feet in length into that lock; describe exactly what would happen in putting that size of ship through that lock?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; that is what I was trying to do. She comes in here, we will suppose; both the upstream gates are open; she enters the lock

Senator KITTREDGE. From the upstream end?

Colonel ERNST. From the upstream end. She enters the lock until she reaches this gate [indicating].

Senator KITTREDGE. And at what distance is the gate you now point to from the upper end of the lock?

Colonel ERNST. From this point to this point [indicating] is 955 feet. Senator KITTREDGE. At what distance from the gate?

Colonel ERNST. From that gate, the second gate, 820 feet; but those gates are open.

Senator KITTREDGE. I understand.

Colonel ERNST. The ship is sticking out through those gates, and after she has gotten here and come to a stop these gates are closed. Senator TALIAFERRO. The outer gates are closed?

Colonel ERNST. The outer gates are closed. That leaves those gates and these gates [indicating] still to protect the summit level; and you are free to open that gate [indicating], which you do. The ship is then pushed forward 80 feet, and stops again. Then this gate [indicating] is closed, and that leaves the two up there [indicating] to protect the summit level, and you are free to open that gate, which you do, and the ship goes out.

Senator TALIAFERRO. What is the usable length of the lock with all the gates closed?

Colonel ERNST. Eight hundred and twenty feet.

Senator KNOX. What is the usable length with the gates open, which you say may be safely opened after the vessel goes in? Colonel ERNST. Nine hundred feet.

Senator KNOX. So that is the maximum usable length?
Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir.

Senator KITTREDGE. What do you put those safety gates in there for?

Colonel ERNST. So that there would always be two gates to protect the summit level.

Senator TALIAFERRO. Under this arrangement there is only one when you close both gates in the rear, or at the entrance of the lock? When

you close both gates you have only one gate to protect that at the other end?

Colonel ERNST. Yes; but down here (the ship is supposed to come down, now, to this level) you have these two gates; you always have two.

Senator KITTREDGE. At which end?

Colonel ERNST. In this case, now, they are up there; when the ship is moved forward to this place, both are at that end [indicating]. First they are both at this end [indicating]; then one is at this end and one at this end, and then they are both at that end [indicating].

Senator TALIAFERRO. Which is the summit level end of the lock, Colonel?

Colonel ERNST. This, upstream [indicating].

Senator TALIAFERRO. You do not mean that you can put a 900-foot ship through that lock and have at all times those two upstream gates closed, do you?

Colonel ERNST. Not those two gates, no; we can have one of them closed-one there and one there [indicating].

Senator TALIAFERRO. Then it is a fact that you have not at all times your summit end of the lock protected by two gates when you are putting through a ship 900 feet long?

Colonel ERNST. Oh, yes; this gate is precisely on the same footing with that gate. They are all holding the same level of water. There is no difference in the level. We will suppose this lock to have been filled up to the level. There is not the slightest trouble about that; there are always at least two gates to protect the summit level.

Senator KNOX. But not always at the same end of the lock?

Colonel ERNST. But not always at the same end of the lock; that is it exactly.

Senator DRYDEN. You are speaking now, Colonel, of the locks as designed and recommended by the minority of the engineers. In that connection, how do you interpret these communications from Engineer Stevens as to the possibility of making longer locks there if it is deemed necessary and advisable?

Colonel ERNST. Well, there is a difference of opinion here, you know, about how long those locks ought to be.

Senator DRYDEN. Yes, but suppose it should be finally determined that locks longer than originally suggested should be made; that locks of 1,000 feet usable length should be put there. Do you understand Mr. Stevens to say that the formation of the mountain and the land is such that these locks can be made of such a length?

Colonel ERNST. I do; yes.

Senator DRYDEN. That is the point I wanted to get at.

Colonel ERNST. That is as I understand it.

Senator DRYDEN. And Mr. Stevens, you understand, states that from an actual examination of the land, the conditions there since these doubts were thrown upon the possibility of making locks of that length? Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir.

Senator DRYDEN. With a view of ascertaining whether or not they should be made longer?

Colonel ERNST. Yes, sir; that is what I understand.

Of course this involves losing eight or ten minutes in going through, although it is a perfectly safe thing to do. You still have the usable length of 900 feet, with the two gates always protecting the summit

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