The same thing applies to supplies. The same thing applies to records. Records management is a great field. It never heretofore has been attacked on a central basis. EMPLOYMENT IN GSA Senator SALTONSTALL. Excuse me, Mr. Larson. May I ask this question at this point. How many employees do you have altogether? I put it in the way I know the chairman wants to have it put. What is your record of employees since the General Services Administration was set up? Mr. LARSON. The comparison shows considerably fewer employees, but it is not an appropriate comparison because of the difference in types of programs. We took over the old War Assets Administration. We took over Federal Works. We took over the Bureau of Federal Supply, the Office of Contract Settlement, and so forth. Since that time there has been a reduction in the total number of employees as it existed 2 years prior to our taking over, principally because of the liquidation of the old War Assets Administration set-up. However, since the passage of Reorganization Plan No. 18 of 1950 and transfers of other functions to GSA, we have taken on additional burdens and have taken on additional responsibilities and properties, and so forth. We have increased since 1949, when we first were organized. PERSONNEL Our total employees over-all, including everything, for 1952, or average employment, is 29.034 people. Our average employment under the request we are asking for here will be 31,080 people. Senator MAYBANK. Thirty-one thousand and eighty? Mr. LARSON. That is correct, or an increase of about 2,000 people. Senator MAYBANK. And that is due to Reorganization Plan No. 18? Mr. LARSON. About half of the increase is to provide for partial restoration of the 1952 cut in buildings management services. The larger part of the balance of it is due to the increase in the supply fund operations in order to take over more of the supply operation. EFFECT OF JENSEN RIDER Senator SALTONSTALL. Let us see how the 10 percent amendment to cut employees would affect you. You say you have how many now? Mr. LARSON. Twenty-nine thousand and thirty-four average employment. Senator SALTONSTALL. Would there be a cut from that figure? Mr. LARSON. A cut of 10 percent from the 1953 figure would put us under our 1952 average employment. Right there, if you have just a minute, I would like to point out to the committee the uniqueness of this type of agency in an across-theboard personnel cut of a fixed amount." Let us say that you cut us 10 percent, or as the House did, that you cut one-third of certain objects. A great part of our operating expenses appropriation is for fixed charges, such as rents and utilities. Now, you cannot cut fixed rents that are under contract. You cannot cut utilities that are fixed by public service regulatory bodies. Supplies have to be bought at a certain figure, and so forth. So when the 10 percent cut is applied, it all has to come largely out of personnel which in the case of public buildings management in our 1953 estimate will amount to about a 25-percent cut in personnel. That makes us very apprehensive about being able to keep these public buildings in such shape that people can work in them. NO POST OFFICE BUILDING PROGRAM Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question that is entirely extraneous to what Mr. Larson is talking about? Senator MAYBANK. Yes. Senator SALTONSTALL. I have received letters stating that the General Services Administration was considering building new post-office buildings in Watertown, Mass. It is my understanding that there is no money for the construction of post offices or Federal buildings this year. Is that correct? Mr. LARSON. That is correct. Senator SALTONSTALL. So that any information that there would be a new building erected would be incorrect information? LEASE-PURCHASE BILLS Mr. LARSON. Insofar as building with public funds is concerned. Now, there is a bill pending in the Congress-it has been debated in the committee and in the House, and is on the calendar for action next week. It is still in committee here in the Senate. Mr. REYNOLDS. No; the post office bill has passed the House. But there has been no request at all. There is no estimate pending before the Congress for Federal construction other than the warehouse in Kansas City which was practically destroyed by last summer's flood. Mr. LARSON. The bill I am talking about, Senator, provides for the construction of buildings or the leasing of buildings by the Federal Government already constructed with private capital under such terms as would place ownership in the Government at the expiration of the lease term. It is what is called the lease-purchase bill. Senator SALTONSTALL. And that bill has to become law before what I referred to can be done? Mr. LARSON. That is right. EFFECT OF CUT ON BUILDINGS MANAGEMENT Now, I would like to have Mr. Reynolds supplement the statement on public-buildings management and the effect of the cut. Mr. REYNOLDS. I would like to make a very brief statement. Of the total request of $128 million, $113 million is for the Public Buildings Service. The House cut that 13 percent, and that means a 25-percent cut in personnel because half of it is fixed charges. OPERATING EXPENSES OFFICE BUILDING MANAGEMENT COSTS AVERAGE COST PER SQUARE FOOT FOR NET USEABLE OR RENTABLE AREA (LIKE COST ITEMS) If we were to get the budget estimate and not the cut, we would still be 18 percent below the cost of commercial practice and commercial experience in operating buildings. We are getting continuous complaints, primarily from the Post Office Department, for the character of cleaning that we do. We are getting complaints from all departments because in some places we are cleaning only 2 days a week while in some places such as file rooms and things of that sort, we are cleaning only 1 day a week. REDUCTION IN PRINCIPAL SERVICE OPERATIONS If this cut goes through, it is going to result, I think, in a thoroughly intolerable situation. I hardly think that we can live with it. Senator MAYBANK. What is the other $15 million for? I understood you to say that $113 million of the $128 million went for buildings. Mr. REYNOLDS. The $113 million is for all activities of the public buildings service. Of that, $108 million is for the operation of buildings only. Half of that amount is for fixed charges. Senator MAYBANK. Such as electricity and water? Mr. REYNOLDS. It includes rents, utilities, supplies, materials, coal, the things that you have to buy. You cannot reduce that. Even though there is a slight cut in the personnel of various agencies, we still have the building to operate. We have the same amount of space to operate. Now, Senator Ferguson, on previous occasions, has raised the point that if the Government personnel is cut 10 percent then we automatically can cut our operations 10 percent. That is not correct because the people that you are cutting only occupy one-half of the buildings. About one-half of our buildings are occupied by files, machinery, toilets, and all of the rest of the stuff. So the 10 percent cut in occupying personnel could never be over 5 percent in building space. To put this into effect immediately would mean a cost of about $3 a square foot for the expense of moving, space alterations, etc., for every square foot that you are able to save. Senator MAYBANK. Go ahead, Mr. Larson, if there is anything else. We want anything in the record you feel is necessary for the benefit of the other members of the committee. FEDERAL SUPPLY SERVICE Mr. LARSON. Mr. Chairman, in answer to your question of a few moments ago there is a chart before you which shows that of the $15,000,000, balance of the "Operating expenses" estimate for other than Public Buildings Service, $3,787,000 is for the Federal Supply Service. That is for supply management and doing all of the other things that I have indicated toward the controlling of the inventories and so forth. On this the House cut was 44.7 percent. NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS SERVICE The National Archives and Records Service has $5,751,000. The big cost there is running these record centers, taking the records out of expensive space and putting them into less expensive space. On this the House cut was 17.6 percent. EXECUTIVE DIRECTION AND STAFF OPERATIONS Five million three hundred thousand dollars is to furnish services such as accounting, auditing, oflice services, personnel management, legal, and all of the staff services that go into the entire operation. (The following information was supplied:) Concerning these staff operations, I would like to summarize some of the statements given in our appeal justification. In contrast to a 12.6 percent increase in total program requirements under "Operating expenses" in the 1953 estimates, the increase in executive direction and staff operations was only 3.4 percent. This had the effect of actually reducing the ratio of executive direction and staff operations to total program costs under "Operating expenses" from 4.6 percent in 1952 to 4.2 percent in 1953. House action cut this item 25 percent below the 1953 estimate and 22.4 percent below the 1352 level which would reduce the ratio of staff operations to programs to 3.7 percent. The estimate at 4.2 percent was based on absolute minimum financing requirements. The action by the House would prohibit the exercise of adequate supervision or the rendering of essential services required by programs financed under this appropriation. A similar conservative relationship is reflected in estimates for staff operations supporting programs financed from our other appropriations. Senator MAYBANK. Do you have anything else you want to state? Mr. LARSON. I am afraid that I am passing up a good opportunity here, Senator, but I think you have been very considerate. Our submission is pretty complete, and we have great confidence in this committee. Senator MAYBANK. We will do the best we can. It all comes out of the conference. Mr. LARSON. We appreciate your problem. Senator MAYBANK. As a matter of fact, last year I think the conference lasted about a month. Mr. LARSON. Yes. Mr. REYNOLDS. May I say something off the record? Senator MAYBANK. Yes. (Discussion off the record.) |