no jealousy of the rising trade of India | crown to this work by also giving the -on the contrary, we rejoice at the Natives what we earnestly desire for our growth of this trade: but we wish, own population-the boon of healthy while the system is yet young, to save work, healthy homes, and good education. India from all the difficulties and complications to which we have been subject in England. Nor am I stating my own view of the necessity of remedies. The Natives are as anxious

for interference as we are. My noble Friend (the Marquess of Salisbury) shakes his head. Perhaps the masters in India are not anxious; I am speaking of the operatives and the children. I have been reading the Journal of the National Indian Association for the present month, and they begin by rejoicing that a Commission of Inquiry has been issued. They then go on to point out all the evils from which the operatives are suffering-a repetition of the evils which used to harass and destroy our factory operatives at home-terrible exhaustion, dust, 16 or 17 hours a day of unremitting labour, and a temperature varying from 90 to 100 degrees. And they propose the same remedies-limitation of the hours of work, the halftime system for all under 13, education, proper meal-times, and sanitary arrangements. There is also a commercial view to this question. We must bear in mind that India has the raw material and cheap labour; and if we allow the manufacturers there to work their operatives for 16 or 17 hours and put them under no restrictions, we are giving them a very unfair advantage over the manufacturers of our own country, and we might be undersold even in Manchester itself by manufactured goods imported from the East. There is another argument of some importance. English manufactures are weighted in India with an import ad valorem duty of, I believe, 5 per cent. The Manchester Chamber of Commerce will, I doubt not, soon bring this point under consideration. Meanwhile, I trust that we shall have the sympathy of the noble Marquess, and that he will give us an assurance of his earnest and active cooperation. We are only asking for India the same benefits and blessings that we ourselves enjoy. No one can read the Annual Reports upon the "Moral and Material Progress of India" without feeling deep gratitude to God that our rule has been so blessed to the welfare of the Natives. Let us set the

The Earl of Shaftesbury

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, my sympathies in this matter are entirely with my noble Friend—and, in fact, the Government has already been neither unobservant nor idle in reference

to the question. In April last year my
attention was directed to the dangers
which might arise from the ill-treatment
of little children employed in the grow-
ing cotton industry of India, and I
directed the attention of the Government
of Bombay to the necessity of inquiry,
and probably of legislation. Again, in
February of the present year we directed
an inquiry for the purpose of ascertain-
ing whether any cause for legislation
existed; and, if so, what course might
be adopted. I was induced to take this
course by the facts which came to my
knowledge through the agency of a lady
whose name cannot be mentioned with-
out honour among all who are interested
in moral progress and philanthropic
effort in India-I mean Miss Carpenter.
Before this time, however, a Commission
of Inquiry had already been appointed.
That Commission is sitting at the pre-
sent moment. It has taken a great deal
of evidence; but, as its deliberations
are not yet concluded, it would not be
proper, before its Report is presented,
that I should make any definite state-
ment to your Lordships. We must ne-
cessarily be guided much by the facts
which are laid before us in this Report.
There is no doubt, however, that the
case is urgent. The cotton industry is
growing rapidly. My noble Friend gave
some statistics of the development it has
reached already, and its future progress
appears likely to be still more rapid.
There are now 600,000 spindles in the
Presidency of Bombay, and there are
being prepared and approaching com-
pletion at least 500,000 more.
growth of the cotton industry is, there-
fore, likely to be exceedingly rapid.
They produce 1,200,000 bales, and do
not make up more than 78,000; so that
the balance of this cotton is brought
over the sea to Manchester, is manufac-
tured there, and afterwards is taken
back in its manufactured form and sold
to the Natives of India. At least, this
is the history of a great deal of the
cotton. In India there is cheap labour,

The

a moist climate, the raw material, and
the coal with which to work up the raw
material. I do not think it probable,
therefore, that the present state of things
will long continue. On the contrary,
the manufacture of cotton in India for
the Indian market will increase every
year. My noble Friend is quite right
in desiring that this subject should be
taken in hand now, for in a few years
hence the difficulty of dealing with it
will be greatly increased. I am afraid,
however, that my noble Friend is too
sanguine when he says that the Natives
are with us on this question. That is
the precise difficulty with which we have
to contend. There may be some persons
who see the thing in the light in which
we see it; but generally this proposal to
limit the hours of factory labour is
looked upon as a great conspiracy for
the purpose of promoting the interests
of Manchester manufacturers. There is
no subject more commonly discussed,
and writers in the Native journals dwell
on the wickedness of the English, who
are trying to stifle Native manufactures
in India under the guise of philanthropy
I am, therefore, glad that my noble
Friend is coming forward in this matter,
for his philanthropy is, at all events,
above suspicion; he cannot be suspected
of joining in this dark conspiracy, and
trying to stifle the infant manufactures

duties, and will do its best to apply to
the population of India the legislation
which, under the auspices of my noble
Friend, has been already so beneficial to
England.

DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND ART
BILL (No. 221.)

(The Lord Chancellor.)

SECOND READING.

Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, the Department of Science and Art was incorporated by Royal Charter, under the provisions of which it had acquired buildings in South Kensington, had established a museum, and had received various bequests. A gentleman whose name was well known to their Lordships-Sir Joseph Whitworth-presented to the nation in 1868 vested in this Department of Science an annuity of £3,000 a-year, which was and Art, for the purpose of founding scholarships to promote the instruction of young men in the theory and practice of mechanics and the cognate sciences. These scholarships had proved to be of great use. The same public-spirited genleman possessed a considerable estate in the North of England, called the Stanwell Estate, and he wished to make it over to the public, subject to his life interest, for the purpose of securing this sum of £3,000 a-year for the scholarships, and devoting the remainder of the estate to similar objects. This could not, however, be done without a relaxation of the Statutes of Mortmain, and as it was not intended to create a per

of India in the interests of Manchester. I hope that his well-known efforts on behalf of the factory operatives of his own country will show that he is actuated by none but philanthropic motives in desiring that the Government shall take the same measures for the protection of the women and children, the factory operatives of India. Meanwhile, this is the difficulty in the way of the Govern-petual trust, but to leave the matter ment; but it will not be an insuperable difficulty. The history of the Government of India shows, I think, that it will not be deterred by any political obstacles from doing what it believes to be its duty. In its suppression of suttee and of infanticide it was urged on from a sheer sense of duty, in opposition to the traditions and customs of a vast population, and in the face of considerable political danger. Happily, the efforts of Motion agreed to:-Bill read 2a accordthe Government have resulted in a dis-ingly, and committed to a Committee of continuance of those practices. Your the Whole House on Monday next.

Lordships may rest assured that the
Indian Government will show no short-

coming in the discharge of its high

always open to the control of Parliathose statutes might be relaxed in the ment, Her Majesty's Government thought ject of the present measure, therefore, case of this or a similar gift. The obDepartment to hold the land subject to was to empower the Science and Art the control of Parliament.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a." (The Lord Chancellor.)

House adjourned at Seven o'clock, to
Monday next, half past
Two o'clock.

COMMONS,

HOUSE OF

Friday, 30th July, 1875.

The House met at Two of the clock.

MINUTES.]-SUPPLY-considered in Committee

- MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES CIVIL SER

VICE

ESTIMATES.-Class IV. - EDUCATION,

*

SCIENCE, AND ART. PUBLIC BILLS- First Reading-Statute Law Revision [278.] Second Reading-Unseaworthy Ships [281]; Expiring Laws Continuance [262]; Ecclesiastical Commission Act Amendment* [266]. Committee Public Health (Scotland) Act, 1867, Amendment (re-comm.) * [230]—R.P.; Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (Abingdon, Barnsley, &c.) (recomm.) [241]--R.P.

*

Committee Report-Sanitary Law (Dublin)
Amendment [268]; Copyright of Designs
[270].

Considered as amended-Government Officers
Security [188].

COUNTY COURTS-IMPRISONMENT

part of the Question, that I would make
further inquiries as to the grounds upon
which Mr. Baron Huddleston discharged
Smallbones from prison; on the con-
trary, I distinctly informed the House
on Monday last what those grounds.
were, as communicated to me by the
learned Judge, and added that I, of
course, accepted his statement, though
it contradicted the information which
had been given to me, and I expressed
my regret that I should have been mis-
informed. The only inquiry which I
stated would be made, was an inquiry
into the cause of the inaccuracy of the
information which had been afforded to
me as to the proceedings before the
Judge in Chambers; that was an inquiry
based upon the accuracy
of the state-
ment of the learned Judge and the in-
accuracy of the information supplied to
me. I must, therefore, answer the first
and second parts of the Question of the
hon. Member by stating that I have not
made any such inquiries as those sug-

FOR DEBT-CASE OF WILLIAM SMALL-gested by him. As regards the third

BONES.-QUESTION.

MR. CHARLES LEWIS asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether he has been enabled to make the further inquiries he promised as to the grounds upon which Mr. Baron Huddleston discharged from custody William Smallbones, who was illegally imprisoned for eight months under the order of the County Court Judge at Farnham; whether the result of such inquiries has not been to confirm the statement of the learned Baron made in his letter to the Attorney General of the 24th of July, communicated to the House on the 26th; and, whether he will state to the House on whose authority and information it was that the Law Department of the Treasury communicated to the Attorney General the statement read by him on the 22nd instant, which the learned Baron declared to be "absolutely untrue" so far as he is concerned?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sir, I much regret that the hon. Member for Derry should have thought it consistent with his duty again to bring the case of William Smallbones under the consideration of the House; and the more so as his Question is based upon an assumption, which he doubtless believes to be, but which is not, well-founded. I have never promised, as asserted in the first

part of the Question, I can only state that I have not the means myself of making any sufficient investigation into matters such as those referred to in his Question; that I can only prosecute such inquiries by means of others; and that, even had I the means, I have not, at this period of the year, the time at my disposal necessary for such a purpose. Under these circumstances, the only information of which I am possessed having been hastily acquired, I do not think that I should be exercising a wise discretion were I to make any statement to the House upon the subject.

MR. CHARLES LEWIS gave Notice that as the question related to the liberty of the subject, he would call attention to the case on going into Committee of Supply.

PERU-THE CREW OF THE "TALIS-
MAN."-QUESTION.

DR. C. CAMERON asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the crew of the steamship "Talisman," shipped in Glasgow in May 1874, and arrested in November last by the Peruvian authorities at Quintereas for alleged complicity in the illegal landing of arms, have been tried and convicted of that offence, or whe

any steps, in conjunction with other | Whether his attention has been called European Powers and the Porte, to sub- to the case of Thomas Dwyer, who has stitute for consular tribunals a more con- been confined in the Gaol of Roscommon venient and uniform system of jurisdic- since the 24th June 1873, under a wartion over foreigners in Ottoman terri- rant of the Judge of the Court of Probate tory? in Dublin, for an alleged Contempt of Court by the non-payment of costs given against him in that Court; whether such an imprisonment for upwards of two years is legal, having regard to the Acts for the abolition of imprisonment for debt; and, whether the Executive Government have taken or will take any steps for the discharge of the said prisoner, who is still detained in custody?

MR. DISRAELI: Sir, the only instance in which the Government have agreed with other European Powers and the Porte to substitute other tribunals for those now in existence is in Egypt. Arrangements for this purpose are nearly completed. The French Assembly have not yet ratified their Convention with Egypt. A Correspondence has passed with regard to a reformed system in Tunis, but no progress had been made in that direction.

POST OFFICE-STOCKTON-ON-TEES.

QUESTION.

MR. DODDS asked the Postmaster General, Whether he is aware that, in the town of Stockton upon Tees, with a population of 40,000, the postal and telegraph business of the town, and a wide district adjacent, is conducted in a room only seven feet eight inches in height, the cubical contents of which are 7,980 feet; that in this room thirty-five clerks and other persons are frequently employed at one time, giving to each person an average of 228 cubic feet of space; that the room contains fifteen gas burners, and that, besides the persons employed in it, part of the space is constantly crowded with persons transacting business; and, whether he can hold out any hope that a speedy remedy will be applied, and more adequate accommodation afforded?

LORD JOHN MANNERS, in reply, said, he would admit that the present post office at Stockton was quite inadequate for the growing wants of the town. The Post Office authorities had long been endeavouring to find suitable premises for the purpose, or a site for the erection of a new building, but up to the present moment all their endeavours had failed. No efforts, however, would be spared to bring the matter to a successful termination.

IMPRISONMENT BY JUDGE OF PRO-
BATE COURT-CASE OF THOMAS
DWYER.-QUESTION.

MR. FRENCH (for the O'CONOR DON) asked Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland, Mr. Scourfield

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. PLUNKET): Sir, since the hon. Member for Roscommon (the O'Conor Don) was good enough to postpone his Question from last Wednesday, I have communicated with the Judge of the Probate Court under whose order the prisoner Dwyer was sent to Roscommon Gaol, and he has favoured me with the following information :

:

"Dwyer was defendant in a probate suit in which there was a verdict and a decree against him with costs. He was arrested for non-payment of these costs under the provisions of the Probate Act, and it was my duty to make the order for his imprisonment, unless I was prevented by the operation of the Irish Act for the abolition of imprisonment for debt. That Act, which was passed in 1872, and came into operation on the 1st of January, 1873, forbids arrest for money payable in respect of a cause or suit arisen after the passing of the Act;' but in this case the cause of suit was complete on the 14th 6th of the following August." of June, 1872, and the Act did not pass until the

Sir, I have no right to question, nor do I for a moment question, the complete propriety of the view thus taken by the very learned Judge, nor have the Executive Government any intention, or, indeed, any power, to interfere for the release of the prisoner; but I may say that, if I am rightly informed of the circumstances of his position, there is no hardship in the case, as he can at any time and without expense apply for his discharge under the 24th and 25th sections of the Irish Bankruptcy Act of

1872.

MINES-USE OF BLASTING POWDER.

QUESTION.

MR. MACDONALD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If the Mines Inspectors have tendered to him their individual and collective