and it has nothing to do with the Indian | Revenue. THE CHAIRMAN: The question is the Vote for the Dockyards, and it is not competent for the hon. Member to raise a question of general policy. DR. KENEALY: I am endeavour THE CHAIRMAN: I have already intimated to the hon. Member that the question before the Committee is the Vote for the Dockyards, and it is not in Order for him to raise a general discussion about a European war, because of some chance expression which may have fallen from the hon. Member for West Norfolk. DR. KENEALY: I do not intend to anticipate any discussion that may take place on the Indian Budget. I am pointing out what I think I am quite in Ordering, if I can, to dispel from the mind of in doing. ["Order!"] I intend and the hon. Member for West Norfolk any will point it out. ["Order!"] I re- clouds of alarm and terror which he may peat I intend and will point out that the have in reference to this impending country is justly dissatisfied that im- European war, which seems to terrify portant questions of this kind are thrust him so much. I hope to be able to show upon us at a period of the Session when that the hon. Member's assertions are hon. Members, such as the hon. and made for the purpose of seducing the learned Member for Chatham (Mr. Committee into an easy compliance with Gorst), are obliged to go down on their the present Vote. knees and apologize for doing their duty to their constituents. I am not going to do it. [Laughter.] I believe I am addressing English Gentlemen, and I hope they will allow me, as representing a large and independent constituency[Laughter]-I repeat a large, independent, and most honourable constituency, who will have to pay this taxation to express some views on this matter, and the more especially as the House knows I do not often intrude myself upon it. Now, the hon. Member for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck) is a prophet, and he is the most dangerous of prophets, because he is a respectable prophet, and he says that we do not know when there may be an outbreak of a general war. I always notice that when the Administration comes and asks for Votes for either the Army or the Navy, there are military and naval prophets and there are respectable prophets who are neither naval nor military-who begin to anticipate a general European war. I know something of the state of Europe, and after careful consideration of it, I am quite unable to see any symptoms of this general outbreak with which we are threatened. Russia is not going to war with this country, unless this country shall be insane enough, and sometimes I think this country is quite capable of MR. GOSCHEN said, it would be a any amount of insanity-especially when farce to enter into a discussion of the certain portions turn their heads upon items contained in the Vote at the present the Orton theory-I say that Russia is period of the Session and at so late an not going to war with us, unless Eng- hour, and he trusted that if the Vote land interferes with the proper, legiti-was allowed to be taken in silence on mate, and rational designs she has upon the present occasion it would not be Turkey. ["Order!"] considered as a precedent for the future. Vote agreed to. LORD HENRY SCOTT: I rise to Order, and submit that it is not competent for the Member to raise a discussion on the general policy of Europe. DR. KENEALY: The hon. Member for West Norfolk speaks about there only being six weeks' provisions in case of war. I am surprised that a Gentleman of his great experience should imagine that this country could by any possibility of means be driven into such a condition. The hon. Member was followed by the hon. Member for Pembroke (Mr. Reed) who gave the House a dissertation on the construction of ships, but I hope the Committee will not be led away by the arguments used. MR. HUNT said, in reference to the question of dockyard labourers, which had been raised by the hon. and learned Member (Mr. Gorst), it had not been lost sight of by the Government, and was still under consideration. Vote agreed to. (4.) £1,261,000, for Naval Stores for building, repairing, and outfitting the Fleet and Coast Guard. (5.) £902,608, for Steam Machinery and Ships building by Contract. (6.) Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £652,751, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Expense of New Works, Buildings, Machinery, and Repairs, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1876." MR. SHAW LEFEVRE inquired what was intended to be done with respect to Alderney Harbour? MR. HUNT stated that it was intended to repair the inner harbour, but the outer harbour would be left to itself. MR. EDWARDS moved to reduce the Vote by the sum of £8,000 towards the erection of a College for naval cadets at Dartmouth. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £644,751, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Expense of New Works, Buildings, Machinery, and Repairs, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1876."-(Mr. Edwards.) MR. HUNT said, that at this period of the Session it would be impossible to enter into a proper discussion of the matter, and he therefore proposed to accede to the proposition of his hon. Friend and to meet him on the merits of the question some months hence. MR. GOSCHEN: Are we to assume that the purchase of the site has not been completed? MR. HUNT: It has not been completed. I stated the other day that I waited for the Vote of the House. I only hope that we may not lose so excellent a site. MR. GOSCHEN said, there were certain questions connected with Chatham Dockyard which he should have liked to have seen discussed; but after what had been said by the First Lord he felt it would be useless to make any remarks that evening. DR. KENEALY said, the country would hear with very great surprise the statement of the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Admiralty that the Session was so late and the hour so late that there was no time to discuss Votes which were of very large amount. He begged to move that the Chairman should report Progress. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."(Dr. Kenealy.) MR. HUNT appealed to the Committee not to sanction the Motion. He admitted that it was not advisable to take such important Votes at this late period of the year, but there was no help for it now. Question put, and negatived. Original Question, as amended, put, and agreed to. (7.) £145,088, for Greenwich Hospital and School. MR. HUNT made a brief statement as to the financial changes that had recently been carried out in connection with the income of the Hospital. He explained that a certain part of the estates belonging to the Hospital had been sold last year, the result of which had been to increase the income of the Hospital by a sum of £13,809. This sum had been applied by reducing the age at which the pensioners received to additional pension at 65 instead of 70, their pension so as to give them a claim by adding 200 boys to the Hospital and school, and by increasing certain annuities. faction with the statement, but should MR. GOSCHEN expressed his satislike to know whether the Government were going to continue the policy of selling the estates. The late Governthose estates for the purpose of increasment had recourse to selling some of large, and in reference to the proceeds ing the revenue. The estates were very of them, he considered the Government should keep a very large sum as a reserve fund in case of war, the effect of which would be to increase the pensions very much. SIR JOHN HAY said, he was one of the Commissioners for inquiry into the Greenwich Hospital estates, which prowhen consolidated and brought within duced £4,000 a-year, and in his opinion, one circle-to dispose of them, in fact— they would become very valuable. LORD ESLINGTON said, that he, too, had been associated in inquiry respecting the Greenwich Hospital estates, and those which had been sold brought very high prices. The time might come when the charity would be very largely drawn upon, and the funds should therefore be very carefully kept. The Government should be very careful in selling this property, which, in his opinion, was very valuable, and in selling the surface it might be found that there were minerals beneath it. MR. BRUCE inquired whether any credit was given for the use of the buildings or the hospitals? MR. FAWCETT said, it was impossible to judge of the policy of these sales by their immediate results. If this country continued to progress in wealth and population the rate of interest in the public funds would decline; and while the value of money became less the value of land would increase; and therefore he hoped the Government would not get rid of all their landed property. MR. BERESFORD HOPE expressed his satisfaction at the increase which the salaries had undergone. Vote agreed to. (8.) £82,276, to complete the sum for the British Museum. Resolutions to be reported. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £505, be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1876, for the Expenses of the Office of the Commissioners of Education in Ireland." MR. MELDON said, that at this stage it became his duty to move that the Chairman should report Progress. The Committee had now been engaged for many hours in voting Supply, and there were upon the Paper two or three important measures in which Irish Mem The SIR MASSEY LOPES stated that the increase this year for the Greenwich Hospital estate had been £14,000, independently of the sales effected by the late Government. It was true that the College was the property of the charity, and it was worthy of consideration whe-bers were very much interested. ther a small acknowledgement should not be paid from the naval funds to the charity for the use of the College. As to the policy of continuing the sales of the estates the Government had come to the conclusion that where the property was purely agricultural and fully developed it was desirable to sell it, but that where there was any mineral value below it would be very unwise to part with the property. The net rental of the property sold last year was £5,134, Motion made, and Question proposed, and it realized 62 years' purchase, so "That the Chairman do report Prothat upon it they now had £7,500 a-year beyond the net rental. Charges amount-gress, and ask leave to sit again."(Mr. Meldon.) ing to £10,000 a-year more upon the Greenwich estate would be falling in, so that in case of war there would be sufficient resources to meet an emergency. MR. WHITWELL was glad to hear that mineral property was to be retained. MR. GORST said, the buildings were the property of the charity, and should the Hospital be sold the pensioners would be entitled to the interest of the money so realized. If, however, the buildings were left for the use of the nation as a Naval College, the pensioners were clearly entitled to a fair rent for their premises. MR. SPENCER WALPOLE explained that the increase in the Vote this year was chiefly due to increased salaries. Chief Secretary had intimated his intention of proceeding with the two Bills relating to National education in Ireland, and the Irish Members were most desirous that the Bills should proceed at such an hour as would ensure careful consideration. He (Mr. Meldon) was most anxious that the Bills should be got through, and he felt it only reasonable that Progress should be reported after eight hours work in Committee. MR. W. H. SMITH appealed to the Committee to proceed with the discussion of the Estimates. MR. GOSCHEN suggested that if the Government would postpone the contested Votes hon. Members, perhaps, would not object to going on. MR. GOLDSMID thought it best to adopt the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman, and was glad to see a Representative of the late Government present at so late an hour. MR. MELDON complained that he had experienced at the hands of a Member of Her Majesty's Government a piece of terrorism such as he believed had never been equalled in this country. He (Mr. Meldon) was reluctantly compelled to bring a matter before the Committee which showed very clearly SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH said, the hon. Member was under misapprehension. THE CHAIRMAN remarked that there appeared to have been a misapprehension on both sides. the manner in which Irish business was | He gave the most unqualified contradicmanaged. Immediately before the last tion to the statement made that the condivision which he felt it to be his duty versation was private, and in this he to take, the Chief Secretary for Ireland would be borne out by all his Friends came across the House and stated that about. if he (Mr. Meldon) intended to obstruct the passing of the Votes, he (the Chief Secretary) would withdraw the National Teachers Ireland Bill, and would take very good care that it should be known in Ireland why he did so. Now, the Chief Secretary knew very well that he (Mr. Meldon) was most interested in the passing of the Bill alluded to, and he submitted that the Chief Secretary was guilty of a very gross attempt to intimidate him from the discharge of his duty by threatening to denounce him in Ireland. This was not the first time the right hon. Baronet had had recourse to similar threats. SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH observed, that it was not usual for hon. Members to repeat openly in the House what had been said to them by other Members in private conversation. The hon. Member had drawn a wrong inference from what he (Sir Michael HicksBeach) had said to him. MR. MELDON said, that he would not trust himself to express what was his opinion of the statement just made by the right hon. Baronet, but would content himself with a statement of what actually had occurred in which statement he would be borne out by all the hon. Members sitting around him. Upon the House being cleared for the division just taken the Chief Secretary in a most excited manner rushed across the House and in a loud tone of voice audible to everyone on the benches around made the statement referred to which was heard by many Members. Indeed, several of his Friends around expressed very strong views of the conduct of the right hon. Gentleman. The Chief Secretary very well knew of his (Mr. Meldon's) anxiety that the Bill alluded to should not be opposed, as both privately and upon the occasion of a recent deputation he had assured the right hon. Baronet that all responsibility was left with the Government, and that the passing of the Bill would not be opposed. His object was attained by directing the attention of the Committee and the public to the manner in which Irish legislation was conducted by the Chief Secretary, so that he would not further press the matter. Mr. Meldon Question put. The Committee divided:- Ayes 23; Noes 88: Majority 65. Original Question again proposed. Whereupon Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair.”—(Mr. Parnell.) Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Original Question again proposed. House resumed. Resolutions to be reported To-morrow; Committee also report Progress; to sit again To-morrow. House adjourned at half after HOUSE OF COMMONS, * * * LABOURERS' DWELLINGS (IRELAND)— LEGISLATION.-QUESTION. MR. WHITWELL (for Mr. M'CARTHY DowNING) asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce, early | pound last year, leaving out of considerain the next Session, a Bill to improve the condition of the Dwellings of the Labouring Population in Ireland? SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES. OBSERVATIONS. QUESTION. MR. DODSON, in rising to call attention to the Supplementary Estimates now submitted, with reference to some observations which fell from the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer at an early period of the Session, said, the Supplementary Estimates at present submitted to the House were these-In connection with the visit of the Prince of Wales to India, £112,000; Civil Service Estimates, £297,800; Navy Estimates, £5,700; further Civil Service Estimates, £2,200-making a total of £417,700. In the last item named he was glad to see included a proposal which he was sure the House would receive with favour. It was an addition to the salary of his hon. Friend the Chairman of Ways and Means by which that official would be placed on an equal footing with the corresponding official in the Upper House. He believed the House would receive that proposal favourably, not only as regarded the office itself, but also with regard to the efficient and able manner in which the present occupant discharged the duties. In introducing his Budget the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated in detail the increments he expected in different branches of the Revenue, and took credit for them; his total estimate of such increments was £940,000. This total included the estimated increment upon the income tax, at 2d. in the pound, compared with the produce of 2d. in the tion the extent to which the Revenue was swollen last year by means of the tax at 3d. The right hon. Gentleman estimated an increase upon each penny of £50,000, making an addition of £100,000 as compared with last year. By the aid of these increments of Revenue, he arrived at an estimated surplus of £417,000. He presented his Estimates as exact Estimates; he said they had been deliberately framed, that they were neither too cautious nor over sanguine, and that he submitted them with confidence. He then proposed to reduce the surplus by £60,000 for brewers' licences, £185,000 to be applied to the reduction of the National Debt, and £70,000 charged for local purposes in the present year. By these figures. the right hon. Gentleman reduced his estimated surplus to the sum of £102,000. That estimated surplus was subsequently further reduced by the sum of £6,000 in consequence of his abandonment of the proposed 5s. stamp duty upon appointments. Thus the estimated surplus was reduced to £96,000. the Budget came to be further discussed three weeks afterwards, the right hon. Gentleman was pressed to show how he expected his estimated surplus of about £100,000 to meet the Votes for Irish Education and for the Supplementary Estimates, which everybody anticipated. The right hon. Gentleman shifted his ground and intimated that his Estimates were low and that he relied upon higher increments than those he had stated to the House. He said When amount of Revenue which will come into the "I do anticipate that there will be a further Exchequer in some shape or other, and which will fairly balance any Supplementary Estimates we may have to propose. Is not that, after all, a common-sense view of the case? He went on to say "I think I am taking a safe estimate when I say that I may put the supplementary receipts and savings on expenditure for these must be taken into account-against any Supplementary Estimates that may be required."-[3 Hansard, ccxxiv. 320-21.] On the 8th of June, in Committee on the Sinking Fund Bill, the right hon. Gentleman was further pressed about the smallness of the surplus to meet the increasing expenditure and the Supplementary Estimates, and the right hon. Gentleman stood at bay, and said |