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if they have not been so tested, if he | Act, 1875. I am unable to state whewould explain why?
ther application was made to any ExLORD EUSTAČE CECIL, in reply, Chancellor, Judge, or other person havsaid, that complete answers would in- ing the qualification required by the Act volve too much detail, and would also of 1872 to accept the office before Mr. lead him into scientific controversy which Reilly was appointed. The power to had better be carried on outside the appoint an arbitrator was placed by the House. It was from no want of courtesy, Act of the present Session in the hands but with a view to save the time of the of the Lord Chancellor, who is alone House that he gave brief Answers to responsible for the appointment he has somewhat unusual Questions, which were made. more fit to be put to men of science and constructors and manufacturers of heavy guns than in that House. The system CHINA-MURDER OF MR. MARGARY on which the 81-ton gun was to be rifled AT MANWINE.-QUESTION. was the present, or Woolwich system.
SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL asked Heavy guns were not fired continuously the Under Secretary of State for Foreign with battering charges, and he could Affairs, Whether at the very time when not say what was the greatest number of the Indian Government has been presscharges ever fired from any 35 or 81-ton ing on one side for access to the scene of gun without requiring repairs. The the murder of the late Mr. Margary, process of re-venting could be performed under circumstances which have occaat sea if required. A reserve of heavy sioned great complications, on the other guns was maintained at their stations side where we have already direct relaabroad to meet casualties in the fleets, tions with the Chinese Government, aninand therefore the ships need not be sent quiry by British officers into the circumhome. The tests to which their heavy stances of the murder, to which that Goguns were subjected and the experiments vernment has consented, is now delayed made showed that they would stand the for no other reason than the heat of the practical tests of war.
weather; and, if so, whether Her MaCAPTAIN PRICE gave Notice, that in jesty's Government will consider the consequence of the unsatisfactory nature necessity of insisting on greater expediof the noble Lord's reply as to the bat- tion; and, whether it is true, as stated tering charges, he would move in Com- in some of the public prints, that a pecumittee of Supply on the Naval Estimates, niary indemnity for Mr. Margary's death that it was undesirable to proceed with has been sought at the hands of the the Inflexible or any ship carrying 81-ton Chinese Government; if so, who has or other heavy guns, until those guns suffered pecuniary loss by that sad ochad been subjected to a trial such as they currence, and for whose benefit an might reasonably be expected to undergo indemnity was sought?
MR. BOURKE, in reply, said, that no
doubt the heat of the weather in China EUROPEAN ASSURANCE SOCIETY
had been one reason for deferring the ARBITRATION ACT-APPOINTMENT OF inquiry referred to, and it was the MR. REILLY.-QUESTION.
first duty of Mr. Wade to consider the MR. STACPOOLE asked Mr. Attor- health of the persons under him. The misney General, If Mr. Reilly, the Parlia- sion would probably start before long; mentary draftsman, has been appointed but there were other causes besides the Arbitrator under the European Arbitra- hot weather which prevented it from tion Act, 1875; and, if application was starting-causes which related to the made to any Ex-Chancellor, Judge or state of the country both on the side other person having the qualification re- of Burmah and of China, as well as quired by the Arbitration Act, 1872, to other considerations concerning politiaccept the office, before appointing Mr. cal complications. With regard to the Reilly; and, if so, to whom?
indemnity, until all the negotiations THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sir, were completed, the Government did in answer to the Question of the hon. not think it would be desirable to make Member, I have to state that Mr. Reilly any public announcement upon the has been appointed Arbitrator under the subject. European Assurance Society Arbitration
viding for foreign merchant vessels MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT, (1873)—
being provided with translated instrucTHE BARQUE “ STANLEY.”
tions for the use of the rocket apparatus QUESTION
employed for saving life from wreck on MR. GOURLEY asked the President our own coasts ? of the Board of Trade, Whether the con
SIR CHARLES ADDERLEY : Sir, duct of an officer of the Board of Trade the Board of Trade have communicated was in accordance with the twelfth sec
with foreign Governments on the subtion of “ The Merchant Shipping Act, ject of the rules for using the rocket 1873," when he demanded of and took apparatus now generally adopted, and from the master of the barque“ Stanley" have sent them copies of the English of Sunderland, his sailing register 'in rules, with the view of their being transJuly, 1874, when the said master was in lated and put up on board foreign ships. the act of preparing his vessel for the The Board of Trade have always had survey and repair under the superin- printed rules for using the apparatus intendence of Lloyd's surveyors ?
serted in logs and other ship papers, and SIR CHARLES ADDĚRLEY : Sir, they require every master and mate to the Stanley sailed from Sunderland in be examined in the use of the apparatus July last, and, having struck on a rock before he gets his certificate. Believing off Filey, ran back into the Tyne. The that the present apparatus is the best Board of Trade surveyor inspected her, yet submitted, the Board of Trade have and reported that she
was unfit to go to caused metal tablets with regulations to sea without repair. Having reason to be furnished to British shipowners free believe that she was about to be patched of charge, to be put on board under up and sent for repairs to Sunderland,
directions of their surveyors.
Her Mahe reported this, and the Board of Trade jesty has commanded that two of these detained her. Instead of putting a
tablets shall be put on board Her Royal Customs officer on board, the Collector yacht. The tablets are also prepared in of Customs, for the convenience of the German and French, and can be proowner and to save expense, obtained cured in this country, and copies will be her certificate of registry, and held it sent to foreign Governments. while she was being repaired under Lloyd's surveyors. The Board of Trade
PUBLIC BUSINESS--OFFENCES surveyor did not interfere, but reported AGAINST THE PERSON ACT AMENDwhen repairs were sufficiently well done,
MENT BILL.-QUESTION, upon which the certificate of registry was returned. All fees and expenses
MR. MUNDELLA said, he wished to were remitted, and she went to sea again. know whether this Bill, which was the The House will therefore see that the third Order on the Paper, would be real facts of the case are the reverse of taken that night? Perhaps the Home what is implied by the statement which Secretary would state whether it was his the hon. Member has received, and which intention to move that the Order be dishas remained about a fortnight on our charged ? Notice Paper.
MR. ASSHETON CROSS, in reply, MR. GOURLEY said, in consequence said, that the House would allow him of the hon. Baronet's Answer, he should to state that before the Government take an early opportunity of calling the brought in this Bill they took pains to attention of the House to the question, obtain accurate information both in simply to put the House right in respect England and Scotland from stipendiary to the facts of the case, and to show that magistrates, chief constables, and others. since the Question had been on the Paper A mass of evidence thus obtained was there had been four counts out.
the Table, and a Bill was brought in by the Government. He did
not think this was a question which MERCANTILE MARINE_ROCKET
should be dealt with by what might be APPARATUS.--QUESTION.
called panic legislation. He was neither LORD CLAUD J. HAMILTON asked surprised nor sorry to find that there was the President of the Board of Trade, a disinclination to go back to personal Whether any convention or arrangement flogging, unless it was proved to be abexists with Foreign Governments pro- solutely necessary; but, at the same time, by watching carefully the sentences | forgetful of the provisions of the Debtors passed throughout the country, he was Act of 1869," had reference to the County fully convinced that the bringing for- Court Judge who committed the man to ward of this subject had had the effect prison, and not to the learned Judge of making magistrates impose heavier who released him from it. My further sentences for brutal assaults than before. observation that the mistake was not disThe Government, therefore, decided be- covered when the parties were before fore going on with the Bill to renew the Baron Huddleston had reference to the inquiry as to the necessity for it. That legal advisers of Smallbone, who, acinquiry would be made in the Recess, cording to the information afforded to and the matter, if necessary, would be me, were asking for his release, not brought forward in another year. upon the ground that the order for his
committal was illegal, but that he was COUNTY COURTS-IMPRISONMENT
an old man, ill, and unable to pay. FOR DEBT-CASE OF WILLIAM
That such was the impression which it SMALLBONE.
was my intention to convey, is, I think
clear from the context. But, however PERSONAL EXPLANATION.
that may be, I should not be acting conTHE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sir, sistently with my own views of what I must ask the indulgence of the House is right were I not at once, and unfor two or three minutes while I make reservedly, to say that, if any
observaa few observations by way of personal tions of mine were so made as to cause explanation. It will be in the recollec- pain or annoyance to Baron Huddletion of the House that on Thursday last ston, I extremely regret it. That I answered certain Questions, put to me learned Judge, however, further comby the hon. Member for Londonderry plains that my statement was inaccurate (Mr. Charles Lewis), relative to the in so far as I said that Smallbone had imprisonment in Winchester Gaol, under been released by him from prison on an order of the County Court Judge, the ground of old age, ill-health, and of a man named William Smallbone, inability to pay. He informs me in his and of his subsequent release from letter that the Act of Parliament of prison by an order of Baron Huddleston. 1869 was referred to in the proceedings I have this morning received a letter before him, and all its provisions carefrom that learned Judge, who appears fully discussed, and that very little was to consider that not only did my answers said as to the man's age, health, or inaunfairly reflect upon him, but that my bility to pay, and he adds that he disstatement of facts, so far as it had re- charged the man on the ground of the ference to the proceedings before him, illegality of his imprisonment and the was essentially inaccurate. I need hardly irregularity of his committal, and upon state that my high esteem and respect no other grounds, and that the other for Baron Huddleston would at all times circumstances did not in any way affect prevent my intentionally expressing, his judgment. Sir, I of course accept either in this House or elsewhere, ex- the statement of the learned Judge, cept under a pressure of duty which though it entirely contradicts the inforcertainly does not exist in the present mation which had been given to me, and case, any opinion reflecting upon the I again express my regret that I should performance of his judicial duties; and I have been misinformed and thus led into do not think that the words which I used, mistake. I must, Sir, however, remind and which are accurately reported in the House that the subject-matter of the The Times of last Friday, can be con- Questions of the hon. Member for Lonsidered as having that effect. The donderry was one in no way under the learned Judge appears to be under the cognizance of the Attorney General; impression that I charged him with that the County Court Judges are in no forgetfulness of the Debtors Act of way responsible to him for their con1869. The inaccurate reports in some duct; and that he possesses no means of other newspapers may have led him to investigating any cases, or alleged cases, that conclusion, but I am sure that upon of mistake or error of judgment on their reference to what I said it will be clear part. A gentleman connected with the that my expression, “Judge, Registrar, legal department of the Treasury, and counsel, and solicitors were apparently of great experience, procured for me,
Mr. Assheton Cro88
at the request of the Lord Chancellor, place upon the subject, and he therethe information upon which I answered fore wished to give the Committee an the Questions of the hon. Member, and opportunity of asserting the principle into the accuracy of such information I that the landlord should be made to had no means of inquiring, even if I had pay for the value which the tenant left had any reason to doubt it. Inquiry in the holding. He denied that there will, of course, now be made into the was any probability of conspiracies because of the inaccuracy of the informa- tween a limited owner and a tenant to tion so procured as to the proceedings defraud the remainderman by pretended before the Judge in Chambers.
improvements, and he held that the
provision regarding "letting value "was ARMY—THE SUMMER MANŒUVRES— amply sufficient to protect the latter. COMPENSATION FOR DAMAGE TO
MR. DISRAELI said, that the quesCLOTHES AND ACCOUTREMENTS. tion raised by the Amendment had been COLONEL KINGSCOTE asked the
discussed the other day. So far as he
the hon. Baronet was opposed' Secretary of State for War, Whether, owing to the unusual inclemency of the to any limitation of compensation. The weather and the consequent extreme
Committee, however, were of opinion wear and tear of the clothes and ac- He hoped they would not sanction an
that there ought to be some limitation. coutrements of both officers and men Amendment which was opposed to the during the late Summer Drills, it is the intention of the Government to grant
principle of the Bill.
MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN any compensation ? MR. GATHORNE HARDY, in reply, Bill to that of his hon. Friend the Mem
said, he preferred the proposal of the said, that in consequence of the unusually ber for Kirkcaldy, and hoped the Amendsevere weather to which the troops had been exposed, his attention had been
ment would not be pressed, inasmuch as
it introduced the principle of “letting directed to the subject referred to in anticipation of the Question. He had
value" which would involve points diffialready taken steps in respect of it in cult for the referees to decide. the sense his hon. and gallant Friend
Amendment negatived. suggested.
On Motion of Colonel Wilson, AmendAGRICULTURAL HOLDINGS (ENGLAND) | leaving out
ments made, in page 3, line 20, by
one twentieth or of one (re-committed) BILL-(Lords)--[BILL 222.]
seventh," and inserting "a propor(Mr. Disraeli.)
tionate” and leaving out “according COMMITTEE. [Progress 23rd July.] to the class." Bill considered in Committee.
SIR GEORGE JENKINSON moved, (In the Committee.)
in page 3, line 22, after “made,” to Clause 7 (Amount of tenant's com- leave out to the end of the clause and pensation for first and second class). insertSIR GEORGE CAMPBELL moved,
“ Provided that compensation shall be payas an Amendment, the omission in page able only where the outlay is of such a nature, 3, lines 19 and 20, of the words “with and has been executed and maintained in such a deduction of one-twentieth," and the a manner, that the benefit of it, if any, will be insertion of the words “so far as it adds reaped either wholly or in part by the succeedto the letting value of the holding at the ing tenant whether owner or occupier.” determination of the tenancy.” The Bill
, On a former occasion an Amendment as it stood, was not on a satisfactory of his had been met by the opposition footing with respect to compensation for of the Government, on the ground that unexhausted improvements, for, as had they had taken the opinion of the been admitted by hon. Member after Farmers' Club, and that that opinion hon. Member, even on the Ministerial was against it. He, however, had since side of the House, the measure did not ascertained that the opinion of the secure to the tenant such compensa- Farmers' Club was expressed in aption, but only the value, less an arbi- proval of his Amendment, and he theretrary deduction which in 20 years would fore hoped the right hon. Gentleman absorb the whole. No division had taken the First Lord of the Admiralty, who
had charge of the Bill, would now ac- 1 to be determined was, whether the value cept it.
of the property had been increased by Amendment proposed,
MR. HUNT said, the phrase "letting In page 3, to leave out from the word “ un- value” had been introduced simply for exhausted,” in line 22, to the end of the Clause: the protection of the remainderman. in order to add the words “ compensation shall be payable only where the Even although the word was left out, outlay is of such a nature, and has been executed the value of the land would still have and maintained in such a manner that the to be determined by the number of benefit of it, if any, will be reaped either wholly years' purchase it was worth, which was or in part by the succeeding tenant, whether owner or occupier," --(Sir George Jenkinson,)
tantamount to its letting value.
SIR HENRY JAMES contended that -instead thereof.
if the words were retained the interests MR. HUNT objected both to the of the tenant would be sacrificed to the merits and to the time of the Amend-law of entail and settlement. ment, and pointed out that the para- SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, graph now under consideration was con- that it had now been admitted that the fined to “first-class ” improvements, in law of entail and settlement stood in the consequence of the Amendment of the way of the landlord and tenant making hon. and learned Member for Cambridge- agreements for an improved cultivation shire (Mr. Rodwell) to strike out the of the soil-a point which he had always second class. The Proviso, therefore, asserted. Formerly this question of value of the hon. Baronet was not required. was a claim to the outgoing tenant; now
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON it was a limitation upon him; but in asked if the Government had consented either case the same difficulties would to the Amendment of the hon. and arise. There would be new valuations, learned Member for Cambridgeshire, the arbitrators would be puzzled, and restricting the operation of the clause to endless complications would arise. Morelimited owners ?
over, he could not see how the letting MR. HUNT said, he had so expressed value could work under limitation. himself.
MR. DISRAELI said, the words obMR. NEWDEGATE said, he was in jected to applied to all limited estates. favour of some such Proviso, as he did He believed that they would form a not think it right that the real owner prudent check, and that the only pracshould suffer from the follies and crotchets tical result would be that they would of his predecessor.
prevent improvident investments and SIR GEORGE JENKINSON said, rash speculations. he would not object to withdraw his MR. NEWDEGATE said, the Bill Amendment.
would create a new right on behalf of MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN the tenant, and, as he understood, the said, he could not help remembering objection of the hon. and learned Memwith satisfaction his prophecy on the ber for the City of Oxford was that this second reading, that the Government, in right did not go far enough, inasmuch bringing forward this Bill, would find as it did not alike attach to the tenant that it entailed dealing with other ques- who held under an absolute owner and tions regarding land, and notably with to the tenant who held under a limited the laws of entail and settlement. He owner. remarked that if the Amendment was to SIR HARCOURT JOHNSTONE said, be withdrawn he should move that the that he had consulted with the farmers latter part of the clause be omitted to in his own neighbourhood, and found afford the Government an opportunity that they did not believe in the letting of explaining its effect. It introduced value a bit. They were satisfied as long the letting value principle, against which as they could work out their own outlay he had already protested, and would by a term of years, and the idea of imcreate consequent difficulty and confu- porting letting value into the Bill had sion.
been from the beginning a perfect abMR. KNIGHT thought the whole surdity. difficulty might be met if the Govern- THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON ment would agree to leave out the word thought it would be by far the most “letting.” Then all that would have convenient course to leave out these
Sir George Jenkinson