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81 East India, Auditor of {JULY 26, 1875} Accounts, 8c. (Superannuations] 82

the attention of the Lord Advocate and POLLUTION OF RIVERS BILL. [Lords.]


also advocated the withdrawal of the Order for Second Reading read, and opposition for the present, and to condischarged.

test the proposals of the Government on

the separate clauses of the Bill, and to Bill withdrawn.

this way he was quite prepared to give

his cordial aid to his hon. Friend (Mr. SAVINGS BANKS (&c.) BILL. (BILL 198.] Ramsay) in every stage of the Bill (Ur. Raikes, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, which was partial in its reforms, instead Mr. William Henry Smith.)

of being general for all Scotland. CONSIDERATION. WITHDRAWAL OF BILL.

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN Order for Consideration, as amended, time of the Government was to oppose

suggested that the best way to save the read, and discharged.

Bills when they were introduced. Bill withdrawn.

Question put,

That the words pro

posed to be left out stand part of the SHERIFFS SUBSTITUTE (SCOTLAND)


The House divided :-Ayes 57; Noes

29: Majority 28. Order for Committee read. Motion made, and Question proposed,

Main Question proposed, “That Mr. " That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Speaker do now leave the Chair.” Chair."

Debate arising MR. RAMSAY in moving that the Motion made, and Question, "That House go into Committee that day three the Debate be now adjourned,”—(Mr. months said, that the right hon. and Stacpoole,)-put, and negatived. learned Lord Advocate had said that the

Main Question, “ That Mr. Speaker object of the Government was to enable do now leave the Chair," put, and an additional Sheriff substitute to be ap- agreed to. pointed by Glasgow. No person was more sensible than he of the need there

Matter considered in Committee. was in Glasgow for more judicial power,

(In the Committee.) but he would remind the House that the Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the application by Glasgow for a stipendiary payment, out of the Consolidated Fund of the magistrate had been refused by the United Kingdom, of the Salaries of certain

additional Sheriffs Substitute in Scotland. Home Secretary In other parts of the

Resolution to be reported To-morrow, country there were Sheriffs substitute who had nothing to do, and he thought at Two of the clock. one of these should be employed, so that instead of increasing the expenses they should go towards economy. He EAST INDIA, AUDITOR OF ACCOUNTS, &c. would move the postponement of the


Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.) Amendment proposed, to leave out it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of

Motion made, and Question proposed, “That from the word * That” to the end of the Revenues of India, of a Superannuation or the Question, in order to add the words Pension to any person who has held the office " this House will, upon this day three of Auditor of Indian Accounts, and to certain months, resolve itself into the said Clerks and Officers on the Establishment of the

Secretary of State for India." Committee,"-(Mr. Ramsay,)-instead

Motion, by leave, withdrawn. thereof.

Resolved, That it is expedient to amend the

Law relating to the appointment of certain MR. ASSHETON CROSS hoped the persons who entered the employment of the House would permit the Bill to be Home Government of India before the thirtybrought in. He admitted the judicial first day of December one thousand eight hun

dred and seventy-four. system of Scotland required revision,

Resolution to be reported To-morrow, at Two and said that the subject would engage of the clock.


ing been absent at the second reading of MENT BILL.

the Bill he would, with the permission On Motion of Mr. Secretary Cross, Bill to of the House, now offer a few observaamend the Act of the twenty-ninth and thirtieth years of Her Majesty, chapter one hun- tions in regard to it. To its general dred and eleven, relating to the Ecclesiastical principles he yielded a full assent, but Commissioners for England, ordered to brought from some of its details he was obliged to in by Mr. Seeretary Cross, Sir Henry SELWIN- disagree. In the first place, he might IBBETSON, and Mr. Cubitt. Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 266.] that the age at which a young man


that he thought it very reasonable RESTRICTION ON PENAL ACTIONS AND RE

should be empowered to join in cutting

off an entail should be reduced from 25 DEMPTION OF PENALTIES BILL.

to 21, because he considered that he was On Motion of Sir Henry SELWIN-IBBETSON, Bill to amend the Act of the twenty-first year quite able at that age to form a judgof the reign of King George the Third, chapter ment on this as well as upon other quesforty-nine, intituled, “An Act for preventing tions. He thought, however, that the certain Abuses and Profanations of the Lord's provisions made for the purpose of Day called Sunday," and for further amending charging the estate by the life tenant ordered to be brought in by Sir Henry SELWIN- went a little too far; whereas in other IBBETSON and Mr. Secretary Cross.

respects the Bill did not go far enough. Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 267.] They were giving enormous powers of

charging the estate, which might in SANITARY LAW (DUBLIN) AMENDMENT some cases amount to 11 years' purchase. BILL.

He thought that if they gave the life On Motion of Mr. William Henry Smith, tenant a power to charge the estate so Bill to amend an Act passed in the Session largely, they ought also to give to the of Parliament held in the thirty-third and heir considerable borrowing powers tothirty-fourth years of the reign of Her present Majesty, chapter one hundred and six, intituled wards the costs of improvements. With " An Act to amend the Sanitary Act, 1866, that view he should propose some Amendso far as relates to the city of Dublin," or- ments in Committee. dered to be brought in by Mr. WILLIAM HENRY Smith and Sir MICHAEL Hicks-Beach.

Motion agreed to; House in Committee Bill presented, and read the first time. (Bill 268.7 according to Order.

Clauses 1 to 6, inclusive, agreed to. House adjourned at a quarter

Clause 7 (Court empowered to authobefore Three o'clock.

rize heir of entail to defray the money to defray the cost of improvements on

the entailed estate.) HOUSE OF LORDS,


that in the second sub-section of the Tuesday, 27th July, 1875.

clause it was provided thatMINUTES.]—Public Bills-First Reading

“ The court shall be satisfied with respect to Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) * (235); Conta- any improvements in the course of execution, gious Diseases (Animals) Act, 1869, Amend. or contemplated, that the same, if well executed, ment* (236).

will be of a substantial nature and beneficial to Second Reading-Chelsea Bridge * (217).

the estate." Committee Entail Amendment (Scotland) He thought this term very vague, and (214).

that it would not be easy to determine Committee Report -- Statute Law Revision * (194).

what improvements were beneficial to Report-Pharmacy * (209).

the permanent value. Third Reading - Washington Treaty (Claims THE LORD CHANCELLOR thought Distribution) * (216) and passed.

that there could be no injustice in chargENTAIL AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND)

ing the estate with the cost of substantial

improvements, seeing that any large BILL-(No. 214.) COMMITTEE.

expenditure on the mansion-house, for (The Lord Chancellor.)

example, would be for the enjoyment of Order of the Day for the House to be the person who ultimately came into the put into a Committee, read.

whole estate. Moved, That the House do now go

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUGH said, into Committee."

that for that very reason, he could not see the justice of charging the cost to date of such authority of the court, or, where the whole of the estate.

the money has been consigned as aforesaid, THE EARL OF AIRLIE also said it the date of consignation, such annual rent to be

from and after the expiration of two years from would operate very unjustly to relatives payable by equal moieties half-yearly, and to be having charges on the whole estate that at the rate of seven pounds two shillings per there should be a charge placed upon it annum for every one hundred pounds so authofor the improvement of the mansion.

rised to be borrowed, and so in proportion for LORD NAPIER AND ETTRICK any greater or less sum; or, in the option of

such heir in possession, and in lieu of such bond thought it was very desirable that a of annual rent, with ") distinction should be made between improvements which were temporary and THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, it those which were permanent.

was of public policy that improvements THE LORD CHANCELLOR proposed should be made ; and if the improveto insert in the first sub-section words to ment was beneficial to the estate, there meet the objection of noble Lords by did not appear to be any injustice in adding after the words “beneficial to charging it on the estate. It was really the estate," the words “as at the date a question between the public and the of the application to the extent of at estate rather than between the improver least the sum authorized to be bor- and his successor. The Scotch Members, rowed.”

on behalf of their constituents, had been Amendment agreed to; words added.

so anxious that the Bill should pass,

that they had agreed to forego AmendTHE EARL OF AIRLIE moved, at the ments, especially relating to these end of the Clause, to add

charges, in order that it might go up to (“Provided also, that nothing in this Act their Lordships' House as quickly as shall authorize any heir of entail to charge the possible. But the noble Earl's Amendentailed estate with money expended on any im- ment amounted almost to this—that provement which may have been executed more than twenty years before the application for nothing should be done. authority to charge the estate in respect of such

LORD NAPIER AND ETTRICK opimprovement shall have been made to the posed the Amendment and hoped the court.")

Government would stand by the proAmendment agreed to; words added. posals of the Bill which authorized the Clause, as amended, agreed to.

limited owner to charge the estate for

the purpose of permanent improvements. Clause 8 (Heir of entail with autho- The Bill seemed to him to be one of the rity of the Court may grant bond over greatest utility, its object being to place the estate; form and effect of bond.)

the limited owners of the entailed THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN pro

estates in Scotland in the same position posed to substitute for the power given as absolute owners in fee simple. There by the Clause a power to the limited existed at the present moment urgent owner to grant a bond binding himself reasons why limited owners should be and heirs of entail to repay the loan by furnished with the means of doing their an annual rent for 25 years, payable duty to the estate by enabling them to half-yearly, and to be at the rate of raise money on easy terms; and he £7 28. per annum for every £100 autho- firmly believed that no injury would rized to be borrowed. The noble Earl result to the future heirs of entail. said it would be unjust to the remainder. One of these reasons was to be found in men to allow the limited owner to charge the great increase which of late years upon them an improvement which he had taken place in the cost of agricul. himself might have derived all the tural operations-of labour, of carriage, benefit of, and which might have been of manures, and, in short, of everything. exhausted in his lifetime.

It was also of the greatest importance

that all permanent improvements should Amendment moved, in page 7, lines be done by the landlords, and particu3, 4, and 5, leave out

larly those which concerned the erection (“the amount of the loan authorised by the of dwellings for the labourers and farm court, by granting in favour of any creditor who buildings. One-third of the labouring bond of annual rent, binding himself and his population of Scotland still occupied heirs of tailzie to make payment of an annual dwellings of only one room, and another rent for twenty-five years from and after the third of only two rooms. A further



was the new charges which THE LORD CHANCELLOR pointed modern legislation placed upon land. out that there was a wide difference Under the Pollution of Rivers Bill- between the old Scotch entails and the [A noble LORD: That Bill is withdrawn] English entailed estates. The former --yes; but it was to be introduced next were at one time absolutely inalienable Session in a more perfect form. There estates; and as the Rutherford Act was not a cottage, a farmhouse, or a made provision for a gradual opening of mansion in Scotland which did not, these entails, it was a question for Pardirectly or indirectly, pour its sewage liament to consider whether it would not into the streams; and the cost of diver- go further in the same direction. sion probably in many cases would fall Amendment agreed to. in great part upon the limited owner. Then as to farm buildings and offices,

Clause, as amended, agreed to. none would in these days be erected

Remaining clauses, agreed to. which would not stand from 60 to 100

Bill passed. years. England was full of farm buildings in tenantable condition more than received on Thursday next, and Bill to be

The Report of the Amendments to be a century old. The Bill was also valuable as it allowed money to be raised printed, as amended. (No. 237.) not only for buildings and improvements

PARLIAMENT - PUBLIC BUSINESS — entirely agricultural, but for habitations

THE MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL. for rural mechanics and other classes of inhabitants. Some of these improve

QUESTION. ments might not possibly be of a re- EARL DE LA WARR, in rising to munerative character; but if the heir ask the Government whether they would were thus in some way injured, he would be willing to re-consider the question of find consolation in the improvement the withdrawal of the Merchant Shipping which would be made in the dwellings Bill, said, that great interest was felt in of the people on his estate.

both Houses of Parliament on the subTHE EARL OF ABERDEEN opposed ject to which it referred ; nevertheless, the Amendment.

they had been informed that it was one VISCOUNT CARDWELL said, the fact of those Bills which would have to be that the Bill had been passed through abandoned in consequence of there being the other House without debate had no time to pass it in the present Session. been cited as a proof of its acceptable- The measure was one in which the geneness to the Scotch Members ; but surely ral public had taken the greatest and this very circumstance imposed upon deepest interest; and, though he was their Lordships the duty of carefully aware that the Government had introexamining the provisions of the mea- duced and carried through many mea

In Scotland, he understood they sures of great importance this Session, had two modes of raising money on there was no one of greater importance entailed estates-one like that adopted or interest to the country than the Merin England, with a sinking fund to ex- chant Shipping Bill. He trusted, theretinguish the debt; and another by which, fore, that the Government would either with the consent of the Court of Session, be induced to re-consider their deterthey might raise for a particular purpose mination to withdraw the Bill, or to give a burden to be charged in perpetuity an assurance to their Lordships that some upon the estate, but only to the amount temporary measure would be introduced of two-thirds. Surely that was a most this Session for the purpose of securing liberal power of raising money at the that safety to human life which the expense of the remainder-man. It was urgency of the case demanded; and urged that this might be done for some would assure the country that the larger useful public purpose, but the sugges- measure should be introduced and, if tion was quite a new one that they possible, passed next Session. should endow the people of Scotland out THE EARL OF MALMESBURY, in of the funds of-remainder-men. If the reply, said, that the Question which had people of Scotland wished to be better been asked by the noble Earl had rehoused do not let them throw the ex- ference to an important subject. Her pense on a future generation for whom Majesty's Government had been obliged there was nobody to speak.

to withdraw the Merchant Shipping Lord Napier and Ettrick


Bill simply because it was found that proceeding to sea which, either from deat this advanced period of the Session fective condition of hull

, equipment, or it would be impossible to pass it. The loading, were deemed to be unseaworthy, Bill consisted of many clauses, and there and it was upon the policy of that Act were no fewer than 180 Amendments and on the same lines that the Bill of proposed upon it by Members on both Her Majesty's Government had prosides of the other House of Parliament. ceeded. The course which the GovernIt was with the deepest regret that Her ment had taken would, he feared, have Majesty's Government found themselves a most unfortunate influence upon the compelled to withdraw it.

The course

course of legislation in reference to the they had determined to take was to in question of merchant shipping — espetroduce a short Bill for the purpose of cially having regard to the interest felt conferring on the Board of Trade stronger by the working classes in this question. powers than it now possessed for stop- If it was not possible to pass the whole ping unseaworthy ships from proceeding Bill, the Government would have acted to sea. Next Session a Bill would be wisely by making an effort to pass

those introduced at an early period to deal clauses only which dealt with the safety with the whole question, and, if possible, of life at sea. Not having taken this to place it on a permanent and satis- course, the Government might, he feared, factory foundation.

be driven, owing to the lateness of the THE EARL OF BELMORE thought Session, into hasty, wild, and bad legisthat, under the circumstances, the Go- lation upon a subject of the first imporvernment had taken the best possible tance, or else they would create a feeling course. The question was of pressing among the constituencies that the safety interest, and he hoped it would be dealt of the sailors had been neglected, which with in a satisfactory manner. England would only operate mischievously upon was not the only country from which the course of all future legislation in reships were sent to sea in an unfit state ; ference to the subject. the practice extended to the Colonies, THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, he and he trusted that if a strong measure did not propose to follow the noble Lord passed here for the prevention of the in discussing a Bill which was not before evil the example would be followed their Lordships' House. As had been elsewhere. He hoped the Government stated by his noble Friend the Lord would not be content with introducing Privy Seal, it was intended to introduce measures to provide for the safety of life a short measure which would, he thought, at sea, but would also endeavour to command approbation for its general codify the whole of the existing laws re- principles, and would, he hoped, prove lating to merchant shipping.

efficacious in preventing the sailing of After a few words from the Earl of unseaworthy ships from British ports. LEITRIM,

The Bill which had been dropped was LORD CARLINGFORD said, that the one of great magnitude, and raised quesstatement of the noble Earl the Lord tions about which much difference of Privy Seal was to some extent satis- opinion prevailed.

When its progress factory; but it was impossible to deny was suspended there was a very large that the whole question remained in a number of Amendments on the Papermost unsatisfactory position owing to the he had heard them stated at 180— course which Her Majesty's Government that a great deal of time would have had seen fit to take. It was a miscon- been occupied in pushing the Bill ception to suppose that the abandoned through. No doubt its provisions were Merchant Shipping Bill was so important of very different degrees of importance, a measure as had been represented—it but they all required careful considerawould not, in fact, have done more than tion, and it was in order to avoid hasty a very little in the direction of render- legislation that the Government had posting the lives of seamen more safe at poned the complete measure until next sea than at present. It was also a mis-Session. In the meantime, he hoped conception to suppose that nothing had that the necessities of the case would be already been done in this matter. The provided for by the Bill which was about Act passed by the late Government in to be introduced. 1873 conferred upon the Board of Trade

House adjourned at a quarter past stringent powers to prevent ships from

Seren o'clock, to Thursday

next, Eleven o'clock,

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