Karslake, Sir J. B. Kavanagh, A. Kelk, J. Kendall, N. King, J. K. King, J. G. Knight, F. W. Lennox, Lord G. G. * Lowther, hon. Col. M'Lagan, P. Malcolm, J. W. Manners, rt. hn. Lord J. Gallwey, Sir W. P. Manners, Lord G. J. Galway, Viscount Goddard, A. L. Garth, R. Selwyn, C. J. Severne, J. E. Seymour, G. H. Simonds, W. B. Smith, A. * Smith, S. G. Smollett, P. B. Stanhope, J. B. Stanley, Lord Torrens, R. Treeby, J. W. Trevor, Lord A.E. Hill Trollope, rt. hon. Sir J. Turner, C. Vandeleur, Colonel Vance, J. Verner, E. W. Walcott, Admiral Verner, Sir W. *Walker, Major G. G. Walpole, rt. hon. S. H. * Williamson, Sir H. Wise, H. C. Woodd, B. T. Wyndham, hon. H. TELLERS. Taylor, Colonel T. E. Noel, hon. G. J. [Members marked did not vote in the previous division. Barttelot, Colonel, Bateson, Sir T., Bruce, Sir H. H., Corrance, F. S., Dalglish, R., Duncombe, hon. Admiral, Dunne, General, Gilpin, Colonel, Headlam, rt. hon. T. E., Innes, A. C., Jolliffe, hon. H. H., Mackinnon, W. A., Noel, hon. G. J., Powell, F. S., Read, C. S., Scott, Lord H., Shafto, R. D., Welby, W. E., voted with the Ayes" in the previous division.] Montagu, rt.hn.Lord R. Barry, A. H. S. Bass, A. Baxter, W. E. Beaumont, H. F. Berkeley, hon. II. F. Biddulph, Col. R. M. Biddulph, M. Bowyer, Sir G. Bright, J. * Brown, J. Bruce, Lord C. Bruce, rt. hon. H. A. Buller, Sir A. W. Buller, Sir E. M. Butler, C. S. Butler-Johnstone, H. A. Buxton, Sir T. F. [Committee-Clause 15. Calcraft, J. H. M. Cecil, Lord E. H.B. G Clinton, Lord E. P. Cremorne, Lord Crossley, Sir F. Davey, R. Davie, Sir H. R. F. Denman, hon. G. Dent, J. D. Foster, W. O. Gaselee, Serjeant S. Gaskell, J. M. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M. Gilpin, C. More, R. J. Sykes, Colonel W. H. Torrens, W. T. M'C. Tracy, hon. C. R. D. Hanbury Trevelyan, G. 0. Rebow, J. G. Robertson, D. Rothschild, N. M. de Russell, A. Vernon, II. F. St. Aubyn, J. Salomons, Alderman Saunderson, E. Scourfield, J. H. Scrope, G. P. * Smith, J. A. Stansfeld, J. Vanderbyl, P. *Verney, Sir H. [Members marked❤ did not vote in the previous division. Agar-Ellis, hon. L. G. F., Barclay, A. C., Bass, M. T., Bouverie, rt. hon. E. P., Briscoe, J. I., Doulton, F., Goldsmid, J., Hay, Lord W. M., Lusk, A., Monk, C. J., Sheridan, H. B., Waring, C., voted with the "Noes" in the previous division.] THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, he thought it would be better to complete the clause, and alter it on the Report. Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 16 agreed to. Clause 17 (Successive Occupation). MR. POWELL said, he moved to insert after the word "shall" the words "unless and except as herein otherwise provided." The object of the Amendment was to correct what would otherwise be an ambiguity, consequent on the adoption of the lodger franchise. Amendment agreed to. SIR ROBERT COLLIER said, that he should propose to add the words lodger," which alteration was necessary to put lodgers upon the same footing as owners and tenants in reference to retaining the franchise, notwithstanding a succession of occupations. MR. DENMAN said, the Amendment should run thus:-"as owner or tenant shall, or as lodger shall." MR. WALPOLE said, he thought that this was a matter of which notice ought to have been given. The Amendment would virtually repeal some words in the lodger clause. MR. GLADSTONE said, he did not think that when the lodger franchise was discussed the question of a parity of dealing with the different classes of persons having votes was brought into view. He agreed that it would be better that the question should be raised after notice. SIR ROBERT COLLIER said, he would withdraw his Amendment, and that he interest in the land. Since they had refused to require a house with occupation franchise for counties it was the more important that they should take precautions against the multiplication of votes of persons who had no real interest in the land. MR. GLADSTONE said, he wished to refer to what took place last year on this subject. Many hon. Members sheltered their refusal to require a house for the occupation franchise on his giving up that point in the Bill of last year. What he did last year was this. In deference to the opinions of the other side, Her Ma would at a future period move a new clause.jesty's then Government agreed to give up Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 18 (Joint occupation in Counties). MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN said, he would suggest that there should be the same power of limiting the joint occupation as in the case of boroughs. MR. GOLDNEY said, that in the boroughs where household suffrage would prevail there was no value set forth, but in the present clause the words were, "so far as the value is concerned." MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN moved that the words "Provided also that in no case shall more than two such joint occupiers be registered as voters in respect of the same occupation "be added to the clause. their clause requiring a house, upon the understanding that there should be a limitation to the power of multiplying votes in joint occupancy in the mode proposed by the Bill of the right hon. Gentleman in 1859. The 6th clause of that Bill did not refer to the occupation franchise, but it provided that in all freehold, leasehold, and copyhold interests-he apprehended there would be no difficulty in making it apply to an occupation interest also-not more than two persons should be allowed to vote on joint occupancy, unless it had been acquired by marriage or devise, or unless the persons were associated together in the occupation for the purposes of trade. MR. POWELL said, that the hon. and learned Member for Richmond (Sir Roundell Palmer) had opposed a proposal which he had made on a former occasion with the view of preventing the creation of fictitious votes. He congratulated him on his conversion. He SIR ROUNDELL PALMER said, this was a subject which well deserved the attention of the Committee. On former occasions there had been several close divisions on the question whether faggot. MR. GOLDNEY said, he thought the Voting should be checked by requiring a number "two" would be somewhat rehouse to be upon the land. The Com-strictive. Three or four brothers might mittee, by several narrow divisions, de- have an interest in the property. termined that they would not adopt that would suggest the substitution for it of mode of checking faggot votes. It was "three.' all the more necessary, therefore, that the THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, practice should be checked in the direc- he was willing to agree to the suggestion tion now proposed by his hon. Friend. of the right hon. Gentleman opposite that The evidence that was taken before the the clause in the Bill of 1859, with its exCommittee on the Totnes election was ceptions, should be introduced. He sugfull of useful instruction on this sub-gested that the clause be allowed to stand ject. It appeared there that when the £10 over with a view to incorporate the clause. borough franchise was in question-and referred to. he need not say that £12 was not far removed from the old £10 qualification-two methods were resorted to for the purpose of creating faggot votes. One was to let a single field with a hut upon it for £10 to a single tenant, the other was to let a large parcel of land to a limited company of occupiers, none of whom had any real SIR ANDREW AGNEW said, he was glad this course would be adopted, as it would prevent any but bona fide voters from getting upon the register, and so carry out the wishes of both sides of the House. MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN said, he had introduced the Amendment [Committee-Clause 18. in no hostile spirit, and would withdraw it on the undertaking given by the hon. and learned Gentleman. SIR EDWARD COLEBROOKE said, he would remind the hon. and learned Gentleman that it would be necessary to include in the clause those occupations that were not under a lease. He cordially supported the clause, which he regarded as even more important than the one he unsuccessfully proposed the other evening. MR. M'CULLAGH TORRENS said, that when the principle of the lodger franchise was adopted, it was understood that the lodger should be put on the same footing as a householder with respect to making his claim to be registered as a voter. The Amendment he now moved was intended to carry out that object. He begged to move in Clause 19, page 7, line 3, after "admit," to insert the following subsection: MR. HENLEY said, he had no doubt it "2 a. The claim of every person desirous of was the general wish of the House to pre-being registered as a voter for a Member or Memvent faggot voting, but he begged to point bers to serve for any borough in respect of the out that hon. Gentlemen were taking a occupation of lodgings, shall be in the Form numbered 5 in Schedule E, or to the like effect, and great deal of trouble to teach people to shall have annexed thereto a declaration in the make faggots. The speech of the hon. form, and be certified in the manner in the said and learned Member for Richmond (Sir Schedule mentioned, or as near thereto as cirRoundell Palmer), and his allusions to the cumstances admit; and every such claim shall, doings at Totnes, was just an ingenious after the last day of July, and on or before the twenty-fifth day of August in any year be deliway of showing people how the thing was vered to the overseers of the parish in which to be done-it was really calling people's such lodgings shall be situate, and the particulars attention to the subject who otherwise of such claim shall be duly published by such would never have thought of it. There overseers on or before the first day of Septemwas nothing he disliked more than these the Form No. 6 in the said Schedule E. ber next ensuing, in a separate list according to votes, but what was to prevent a man who had 100 acres of land dividing it among ten or twelve persons? Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 19 (Registration of Voters). SIR EDWARD BULLER said, there was no provision for the registration of freeholds, where there was no occupation. He did not see how any freeholder, living out of the parish, could get on the register. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCUEQUER said, that the clause was only supplementary to the existing law on the same subject, which provided for the registration of freeholds. Amendment agreed to. Mr. Knatchbull-Hugessen "And the following provisions shall, with the necessary variations, apply to every such claim and list, viz. :— "So much of section eighteen of the Act of the Session of the sixth year of the reign of Her present Majesty, chapter eighteen, as relates to the manner of publishing lists of claimants, and to the delivery of copies thereof to persons requiring the same. "And the whole of the thirty-eighth and thirtyninth sections of the same Act.' Amendment agreed to. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, he proposed to omit the latter sections of the clause relating to the special votes. He moved the omission of the 5th, 6th, and 7th. MR. GOLDNEY said, he had no objec tion to offer to the Amendment, as it followed the provisions of the 15th Vict., and contained precautions against unqualified persons being placed on the register. MR. HIBBERT said, that no provision had been made in respect to the registration in boroughs. In municipal boroughs he thought that the registration should be made out in wards, and not, as at present, by the overseers. This would be a great convenience in large towns. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that the clause referred only to registration in counties. It had nothing to do with the general registration. He was aware that the great increase of the constituencies, and other circumstances, would require some attention to the regis tration, and he proposed to deal with them. I provide any increased number of pollingHe should introduce provisions respecting places that might be required. the time of registration and the remuneration of the local authorities, in Clause 42. Amendment agreed to. On Question, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill," MR. W. E. FORSTER said, he was glad to hear that the Chancellor of the Exchequer intended to bring forward a fresh registration clause, so as to give the required facilities to the increased number of voters. He hoped that the proposed clause would be brought forward as early as possible. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, he did not intend to deal extensively with the question of registration. That was a great question, which it might be necessary hereafter to consider in extenso. All he now wished to do in regard to this Bill was to frame a provision which would deal with the subject of regis tration in such a manner as to make the measure in itself complete and to work MR. SCHREIBER said, that if there were to be a registration in October next, MR. CHILDERS said, that under the 68th section of the Reform Act this matter was left entirely to the discretion of the returning officer, and persons living at a distance of several miles from each other might be obliged by the returning officer to resort to the same spot. MR. AYRTON said, he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consider the question of the law of polling-places. The returning officer was not bound to do any. if he waited until that time inconvenience thing until a poll had been demanded, and would ensue. He charged anything he liked, and gross abuses were practised, unless strong-minded Members resisted the demands that were made. It would be a convenience if there were an alphabetical list of voters for each polling district. The returning officer ought to prepare this from the parochial lists furnished by the overIt was unnecessary to incur the expense of building booths when suitable rooms could be hired, and a few pounds for the use of a school-room would often be acceptable to the managers. seers. MR. ALDERMAN SALOMONS said, he and another in spring, they would prac-sympathized with what had been said as tically be doing the work twice over. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, if there were to be a general registration it should of course be provided for. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clauses 20 and 21 omitted. Clause 22 agreed to. to the demands of returning officers. At the same time, the returning officer was subject to uncertainty as to the number of candidates who would require hustings accommodation. He might be held criminally or civilly responsible for accident resulting from the insecurity of the structure provided. Sometimes he would stand no Clause 23 (Provision for increasing Poll- chance of re-payment unless he secured the ing Places in Counties). money beforehand. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that he proposed to strike out this clause, and to bring in a new clause at the end of the Bill in its place. MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN said, he wished to ask if the Chancellor of the Exchequer would take into consideration the desirability of drawing up the new clause in such a manner as to include pollin-gplaces in boroughs as well as in counties. MR. HIBBERT said, some provision should be made for providing additional polling-places in large boroughs. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that the hon. Member had been misled by the expression" pollingplace." What was really meant was "polling-booth." In boroughs there was power by the law, as it at present stood, to MR. SCHREIBER said, a returning officer might provide booths and have to pay for them himself if there were no contest. MR. P. WYKEHAM MARTIN said, the returning officer was entitled to ask for a guarantee from all candidates, whether there was a contest or not, and that in his borough rooms were used as pollingplaces.. MR. BERESFORD HOPE said, it was the same in Stoke, and that in Stafford and Derby rooms were used at the county elections. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, he thought there ought to be a clause providing for polling-places in boroughs as well as in counties. He would therefore withdraw the clause. Clause negatived. [Committee-Clause 23. |