which was properly constituted, and a fair and actual representation of the people, would not dare to treat their consti tuents with such contempt. He was himself an avowed reformist, and as such, might not perhaps be the most agreeable companion in that House; but he wished to do his duty, even in giving good advice to those who were not over-desirous to hear it. He condemned the precipitation with which the Bill had been hurried through the House. Gentlemen had said a great deal about popular clamour out of doors, but he had no hesitation in stating that he witnessed as much clamour within that House; and if it were intended thus to cry down and discourage every member who thought proper to oppose the will of the minister and the majority, that House was soon likely to become a mere chamber for registering the edicts of the Crown. The hon. baronet concluded with expressing his resolution, should the Bill pass that House, notwithstanding the continued and universal objections of the people, to use every effort in his power to have petitions presented to the Prince Regent, with a view to prevent its final enactment. himself indispensably called upon to opit. He had heard no new arguments pose in support of it, and therefore remained firmly of opinion, that if the House passed the Bill it would put the whole kingdom into a state of dreadful ferment. [A cry of No, no! from the ministerial benches.] Gentlemen might cry No, no!' but he referred them to the innumerable petitions from every part of the kingdom, signed every where by the most respectable classes of society, as well as by the manufacturing, labouring, and lower orders; and he would ask them how they could fly in the face of so many thousands on thousands who felt themselves deeply interested, without supposing they must create a very great sensation in the whole country. The high price of 80s. had been fixed as a fair remunerating price, but he had heard no other authority for it but the opinions of surveyors, who had been proved to be interested. [Here ensued much coughing and other signs of impatience.] He would endeavour to discharge his duty as a representative of his constituents as well as he could, and, notwithstanding the disinclination there seemed to be in the House to give him a fair hearing, he was Mr. Huskisson, while he allowed that resolved to give his opinion. As an inde great attention was due to the numerous pendent member of that House he had a petitioners who had approached the House right to do so; no such interruptions as on this subject, contended, that in many those which had been offered should pre- instances these petitioners had been misvent him from doing what he conceived led by statements similar to those in to be his duty; and if he should be obliged which the chief magistrate of the city of to retire from the House, he would take London had chosen to indulge. He maincare the people of England should have tained that unless the measure were adopthis sentiments on the subject. There was ed, the people of this country would, ere no question that was more universally un- long, be compelled to eat foreign bread, derstood throughout all the various classes and to eat it at a dear price. Adverting to of the community than this was; it was the argument which had been deduced obvious to the most common understand-by the opponents of the Bill from the ing. In confirmation of this, he mentioned a petition which he had within the last ten days received from several of his own tenants who rented land from him at rents which had been lately raised; and the sole prayer of their petition was that they might be permitted to pay their old rents. If this were acceded to, they would think they were sufficiently remunerated for every improvement they could make in their several farms. This clearly shewed that they did not see this measure in the same point of view that many members of that House did. He warned the House that it was putting a most powerful engine into the hands of the reformists, who would draw from it this incontrovertible conclusion, that a House of Commons fact, that during the late war every effort to prevent naval stores from reaching this country had proved ineffectual, he asserted that it went to establish the necessity of the present measure, for that the price of those naval stores had actually been doubled. He trusted that the good sense of the country would at last submit cheerfully to a measure intended to conciliate all conflicting interests. Sir W. Curtis maintained, that the citi zens of London were competent to form their own judgment on this subject, and were not likely to be misled by the statement of any individual. The Lord-mayor might, in the warmth of discussion, have gone somewhat too far in stating that bread would be 16d. when corn was 80s, a quarter. It must be recollected, however, that bread was now near a shilling, when the quarter of wheat was little more than 60s. Mr. W. Smith hoped, that one good effect these discussions would produce, would be to cause the method of taking the assize of bread in London to be very closely considered. He did not object to the principle of the measure, but to the price proposed, of which neither evidence nor reasoning had shown the propriety. He lamented that such should have been the rapidity of the proceedings of the House, that many of the petitions intended to be presented to the Commons, would now find their way to the Peers. Mr. Tierney complained, that Parliament were hastening to a decision on this important subject, while the petitions of the people were yet pouring in upon them. All he wished was, that the question should be more fully investigated, and for that purpose he recommended the hon. gentleman who proposed the amendment, to substitute the second Monday after the Easter recess, as the time of reading the Bill a third time. He was convinced that the House were by no means in posses. sion of sufficient information to enable them to decide correctly on a subject of such difficulty, and at the same time of such importance. None of the witnesses who had been examined before the committee were even asked what they conceived would be a fair protecting price in time of peace. Surveyors had said, that for six or seven years past, they were accustomed to estimate the value of land on the supposition that corn would be at 10s. a bushel. This period was, however, a time of war, and the supposition of that price could hardly be applied to a state of peace. He believed that the great farmers of this country, and a great part of the landed proprietors, by no means wished for so high a price as 80s. As to Ireland, no man could wish more sincerely than he did for its agricultural improvement. He was convinced that with encouragement, it was capable of becoming the granary of the United Kingdom. The Irish farmers, however, did not demand 80s. as a protecting price; but the evidence was, that about 72 shillings would be a sufficient protection for them. If, then, they only asked 72s. why should we fix 80s.? He had heard no one reason assigned why it should be at that price, in preference to some of the lower prices mentioned by other gentlemen. He conceived the necessity of this high price to be quite unsupported by evidence or reasoning. Mr. Bathurst rose amidst loud cries for the question, and defended the Bill at considerable length. Mr. Baring opposed it, and said that if the measure should be carried, he would propose two amendments; the one to render it liable to be repealed during the present session, the other to make it coextensive with the Bank Restriction Act. He recommended the hon. mover of the amendment to adopt the suggestion of his right hon. friend near him. Mr. Protheroe however declared, that he had heard nothing to induce him to relinquish or alter his original amendment. The House then divided: For Mr. Protheroe's amendment 77 Against it........ Majority ........245 --163 Mackintosh, sir J. Marryatt, Joseph Methuen, Paul C. Moore, P. Morland, S. B. Madocks, W. A. Nugent, lord Onslow, serj. Palmer, col. Peel, sir R. Philips, G. Portman, E. B. Piggott, sir A. Ridley, sir M. Robinson, A. Romilly, sir S. List of the Minority. Abercrombie, hon. J. Leader, W. Allan, col. Lubbock, J. Atkins, ald. Leigh, sir W. Atherley, A. Manning, W. Baring, A. Barclay, C. Babington, T. Butterworth, J. Boughey, sir J. Buller, Mr. Burdett, sir F. Calcraft, J. Calvert, C. Curtis, sir W.. Combe, H. C. Courtenay, W. Davis, R. H. Dowdeswell, J. Ellison, C. Estcourt, T. G. Fawcett, H. Finlay, K. Fremantle, W. H. Forbes, C. Farquhar, J. Gascoyne, I. Graham, sir J. Howard, hon. W. Hammersley, H. Hamilton, lord A. Harcourt, J. Harvey, C. Heathcote, sir G. Horne, W. Horner, F. Howorth, H. Jervoise, G. P. King, sir J. D. Knight, H. G. Lambton, J. G. Langton, W. Gore Simeon, sir J. Shaw, sir J. Shelley, sir T. Tierney, rt. hon. G. Vane, hon. W. TELLERS, E. Protheroe, STATE OF THE CORN LAWS.] The Corn Bill was brought up from the Commons, read a first time, and ordered to be printed. After which, Earl Grey rose to bring forward his motion for further inquiry into the subject of the Corn laws; a motion which, from an imperious sense of duty alone, he was induced to submit to their lordships, and to which, from the great importance of the subject, he conceived that he had a strong claim on their lordships patience. It was not his intention at present to discuss either the general principle how far the Legislature ought to interfere with the regulation of the commerce in grain, or even to enter into any of the details of the measure now before the House, any farther than to shew the imperfect state of the information on which their lordships were proceeding to decide upon this occasion, and also to shew the necessity of farther inquiry into the subject. For the second reading of the Bill now before the House, it would be proper to reserve both the entering into the general merits of the Corn laws, and the particular discussion of the subject of that Bill; and he was persuaded that the House would then enter into that discussion with all the calmness and all the temper which such an important subject certainly required. He said all the calmness and all the temper which the subject required, because he had observed that in the discussions which had already taken place on this subject elsewhere, these qualities had not always belonged to them; and he was convinced that nothing could more prevent the decision which their lordships should think proper to pronounce from being satisfactory to the public, than the appearance of this being treated as a matter where adverse interests existed, and that it was not taken up in the spirit of calm investigation. For in no decision ought their lordships to favour the interests of one class more than another; but they ought to take a general and enlarged view of the interests of all, and the welfare and good of the whole community. It had been truly stated by the noble earl opposite, the last night on which they were assembled, that unless it could be shewn that the measure was for the general good, it ought not to be entertained; and he had thus admitted, that if he could not shew that it was for the interest of the consumer as well as the agriculturist, he would proceed no farther with it. If one interest, however, ought more to be attended to than another in that House, it was that of the most laborious class of the community-the manufacturers: he trusted that even their prejudices would be indulged; and he was convinced that the decision of their lordships, whatever that decision might be, would give satisfaction to that part of the community, as that which was best calculated to produce the good of the whole. He could safely say, that in order that this character should be established with respect to the present proceedings, he had been induced to submit the present motion to the attention of their lordships. He could have no other motive than this. On this question, one of the most important which was ever argued within these walls, those friends whom he valued and looked up to for knowledge and instruction, were much divided in opinion. With respect to his own particular interests, if a man might speak of his own interests in a question like the present, they were entirely those of that description of persons by whom the present Bill was supported. He could, therefore, have no motive but the obtaining satisfactory data on which to proceed excepting the elucidation of truth-excepting the attainment of those clear results which could alone make their decision such as to afford satisfaction to their own minds, and have authority over the minds of the public. If they wished their decision to be respected-if they wished the law, (if this Bill should ever pass into a law,) to be cheerfully obeyed, the true way of proceeding ought to be to manifest an anxious desire to investigate this impor tant question in all its bearings, before they came to that decision. port. It was almost unnecessary for him to state, that last year a committee of their lordships was appointed to investigate the present subject, who began to sit on the 13th of June, and continued to the 25th of July, in all six weeks, when they made their Report to the House. Knowing the persons who composed that committee, he was persuaded that neither pains nor diligence was spared by them, and he knew that they had communicated much valuable information to the House: but in producing this information they themselves were aware that it was not complete; and it was incontestable that they not only admitted that farther evidence was necessary, but expressly recommended to the House, that they should not proceed to legislate on a subject of so much importance without making farther inquiry, and obtaining that knowledge on subjects on which they were defective. The Report of the committee was fresh in the recollection of their lordships, but he was In a question like the present, on which the greatest number of petitions had been presented, that had ever, perhaps, been known in the history of parliament, the petitioners uniformly stating that the measure would have the effect of preventing a cheap supply of food to the labouring classes, it was their duty to examine into the subject with the utmost diligence and impartiality. The petitioners might possibly be labouring under a mistake-their feelings might have been improperly excited, and the views taken by them might be unfounded; but the true corrective of this evil would be to go into a dispassionate inquiry into the subject, and not to seem as if they had come to the decision of the question with minds already made up and determined. If the people were right in their views, they had a claim on their lordships to interfere in protecting them from the injury which they apprehended -if they were wrong, it was their lord-induced, on this occasion, to quote their ships paramount duty to endeavour to enlighten their judgments, and to shew at least that they had themselves examined the subject. Let them not imagine that the discontent, if it existed, could be suppressed by any appearance of conduct indicating that they proceeded with undue precipitation, as if they were determined to pass a measure on which they had them-ings will, at least, have the effect of selves made up their minds, and to shut the door to every objection and every call for information. This course, he was persuaded, it was the duty of their lordships to follow; and the question, therefore, this night was, whether, in point of fact, there existed a case sufficient to make the inquiry which he called for necessary; whether, in the discussions both in that House and elsewhere, in debates and pamphlets, in the amplitude of documents, in the voluminous evidence which had been adduced, the subject was not yet sufficiently elucidated; and whether there still remained on any point a want of information which could justly be required, and which ought to induce their lordships to stay their opinion, with a view to the farther investigation and elucidation of the question. On this subject he had little more to do, than to refer to the Report of the committee of their lordships; for, with a view to consistency, their lordships were bound to adopt the recommendation with which the committee concluded that Re expressions:" Upon these principles your committee have proceeded in the investigation of this important subject; and though conscious that their labours have not been productive of all the information that they could have wished to have laid before your lordships, yet they are not without hopes, that their proceed proving, in the most authentic manner, their anxious desire to execute fairly and impartially the duties confided to their charge: being persuaded that your lordships sole object in this inquiry, and in any other that you may institute, is to obtain such a body of information as to enable you, hereafter, to judge of the regulations which it may be proper to adopt, for securing to the public an adequate supply of grain at the lowest price that may be found consistent with the necessary encouragement of its growth." And the committee afterwards added, "At the same time they are so fully impressed with the necessity of producing further evidence upon some parts of the question, in order to render the investigation complete, that they cannot avoid anticipating your lordships opinion on the propriety of resuming the inquiry in a future session, and before any alteration takes place in laws affecting the interests both of the growers and consumers of corn in this kingdom." This was, in July 1814, the opinion of their lordships committee, corn. This was fixed in the Bill brought up that day at 80s. Now with respect to this most material point, had they, he would ask them, such information as to enable them to say what price ought to be fixed? A great deal of evidence had been adduced on this subject, but not of a satisfactory nature, often resting on data, which, when examined, would not bear the test, the same witness often affording the best means for refuting his own statement, one part of his testimony being at after the conclusion of their laborious in- I would admit the importation of foreign vestigation, who thus stated their conviction, that before their lordships proceeded to make any alteration, they would call for farther evidence by an inquiry, conducted in some way or other before their lordships House. Since the printing of that immense body of evidence, a general discontent had spread throughout the country; the petitioners at the bar stated, that in their opinion the measure proposed would be injurious to the trading and manufacturing interests of the country; and yet, without one additional tittle of evi-variance with another, and different witdence, were they now to turn round on the petitioners and say to them, they were determined to hear nothing farther on the subject. This Report, in the opinion of the committee itself, was confessedly incomplete. If they wished to allay the discontents of the country, this was most assuredly a strange mode of proceeding. But he knew that it would be said by the noble earl opposite, that though no farther inquiry had taken place, certain facts had since come out, so obvious both in their causes and their effects, that it was impossible any longer to doubt of the necessity of the present measure. Upon the particular facts on which this rested, he should have something to say when they came to a farther stage of the discussion; but from what he had been told had passed before it was in his power to attend his duty in parliament, he understood that there were many persons of the committee who had recommended further inquiry, who now were of opinion that it was proper to desist from making such inquiry. nesses having delivered the most different opinions. Looking at these opinions, he was altogether at a loss to conceive why 80s. should be stated as the proper sum at which foreign corn might be imported.. Many persons had been examined as to the price at which the grower of grain could afford to sell it in the market. One witness stated that he could not produce it at less than 96s.; another had stated 120s.; a third from 90s. to 100s.; Mr. Arthur Young, 87s.; Mr. Driver, 96s.; Mr. Turnbull, 84s.; and Mr. Brodie and some others, from 84 to 90s. A great number of these witnesses were much above 80s. ; and why 80s. should be pitched upon he certainly could not conjecture. In looking at the calculations on which many of those opinions were founded, it was impossible for him not to say that they appeared to him to be conducted on a principle which stated the expenses of the agriculturist much higher than they ought to be, and there was therefore no sufficient groundwork for these opinions. In saying this he did not wish to be unIt was his duty now to state the parti- derstood as imputing any improper mocular point on which further information tives to the gentlemen who gave this eviwas required, and without which theydence. It was natural for men in their would be proceeding to legislate on some most important points, as he conceived, without due knowledge of the subject. It was not, in his opinion, necessary to admit the general principle of the propriety of Parliament interfering for the protection of the agriculture of the country. Making no such admission, therefore, but for the sake of the present argument supposing the principle established that such interference was requisite, the question then was, in what manner they were about to interfere, and if they were sufficiently informed as to the nature and probable effect of the regulations which they were about to establish? The first point was, the regulation of the price at which they (VOL. XXX.) situation to act as they had done. But |