Page images
PDF
EPUB

Mini-He decidedly objected to voting the ways and means, before the House was circumstantially apprized of the purposes to which those ways and means were to be applied.

department of the government. sters, if they consulted the tranquillity and happiness of the country, should advise the illustrious Personage who exercised the royal functions, to limit his expenditure; and should inform him how far more glorious his days would be, were be to reform his expenses to the wants of his subjects, instead of increasing the enormous and unnecessary charges of an extravagant court-[Hear, hear!]-It was not long since, that the nation had admired two illustrious Sovereigns who visited our country; and the cause of their having received so much approbation was, that they had endured the greatest privations in times of public distress. This was a conduct worthy of imitation, and he would take the liberty of recalling to the recollection of the House the words which William 3, one of the best of kings, had addressed to his Parliament. "It always gives me," said that great monarch," the deepest concern to impose new burthens on my people; but I have never called for any which related to my personal expenses.

Mr. Bennet observed, that ministers had not told the House a syllable as to the his situation of the country. It was not real intention at that time to make any comment on the taxes; but when they eame before the House, it would be his duty to oppose them, for he objected to them all. He considered it proper to abolish situations where there was pay without services; and, indeed, to put Government itself upon short allowance.

Mr. J. P. Grant objected to going into the committee, until the Chancellor of the Exchequer had laid before the House a distinct and comprehensive statement of the whole of our financial relations. He was at a loss to conjecture of what yotes the supply which the right hon. gentleman asserted had been agreed to by the House, was made up; and expressed himself particularly unable to understand how the two sums of 15 millions and 12 millions and a half, to make good the issue of Exchequer-bills on the aids of the year 1814, were to be considered.

Lord Milton declared himself to be in a similar difficulty, arising either from his own misapprehension of the subject, or from the mystery in which it appeared to be purposely involved. If he was right in his supposition, they were, as far as the five millions were concerned, about to vote an establishment for four years to come.

The

Mr. Bankes declared, that if he thought the proposed votes were to cover any insi dious machinations that under the pretence of one object, the House was called upon to vote means which were to be applied to another, he would not only oppose the motion himself, but would use all the little influence which he possessed to induce the House to reject it. But this could by no possibility be the case. sums now demanded, and much more, must be voted, to make good the supplies to which Parliament had already agreed. As to the explanation demanded of his right hon. friend, with respect to the peace establishment, it was evident that his right hon. friend only waited until he might be able to speak decidedly on the subject. Who could yet tell what might be our ultimate relations with America? Who could tell to what expense for the next twelvemonth this country might be put by the extraordinary occurrence of which we had been informed only within the last two or three days? He could assure the noble lord who had just spoken, that as far as his humble endeavours could go, they should be directed-not to cut down the peace establishment below what was necessary, but to bring it down as low as was consistent with the safety of the country; and above all, to take care that what remained of expense should be employed not in external show, but in real and solid strength. The measures proposed by his right hon. friend appeared to him to be much preferable to raising a larger loan, or to any encroachment on the Sinking Fund. Certainly, unpopular as was the sentiment, he did conceive that a continuation of the property-tax, under some modification, would have been a still wiser plan; and he sincerely believed, that when the good sense of the country returned upon this subject, his opinion would become pretty general. Did he therefore reproach ministers for having abandoned it? By no means. The strong hostility exhibited towards the tax at the present moment, and the consideration, that its conservation would have been a kind of breach of parliamentary faith, were sufficient grounds for inducing his right hon. friend to relinquish a tax, the good qualities of which his comprehensive mind must have suffi

sudden occasion demand it. To principles almost obsolete he was anxious that we should return. The dictatorship, with which the Administration had for so many years been properly invested, ought to cease with the necessity by which it was required. Until he heard these doctrines acquiesced in, he must withhold his assent to all motions like the present.

ciently appreciated. With respect to the future course of our financial regulations, one great principle was, that we ought as much as possible to make our income and our expenditure commensurate; and he really thought, although it was alarming to find the conjectural estimate of our peace establishment rated so high as 19 millions, great savings might be made out of that ́sum. On the present vtoe, however, all jealousy seemed to him to be superfluous. It would not tie the House down to any new system of taxation, or to any irrevocable amount of the peace establishment. Before he sat down he must, however, warn his right hon. friend and the House from being so misled as to expect that the proposed taxes would be permanently as productive as they might be in the first instance. With respect to those of excise, such as the tax on wine, they would according to repeated experience occasion frauds on the revenue, and a diminished consumption; and as to the assessed taxes, it would, after a twelvemonth, be in the power of any master of a family to reduce them in bis own case, and the general result would unquestionably be a considerable diminution of their produce. This system of taxation, therefore, could not be considered, as he considered the property-tax, a sound, solid, and permanent system of taxation.

Mr. Douglas objected to the confusion arising from the transfer of the ways and means of one year to the supply of another. He recommended to the right hon. gentleman to postpone any further proceeding on this subject until after Wednesday, as the explanations, which would then be given by a noble lord, would probably affect it materially. Certainly, if there was a time in which this country had a right to expect that she should be secured from being again engaged in continental warfare, it was the present; and we had an undoubted right to find that our representative at the Congress had so secured her. He had old prejudices enough left to entertain a horror at the thought of England's degenerating wholly into a military country. Every approach to such a state shook the foundations of our national character. He earnestly wished that the recollections of the war might be obliterated with the war itself, and that from a nation of soldiers we might become a nation of citizens, trusting to our energy and patriotism for defence against an enemy, should any

Mr. Whitbread expressed his admiration of the sentiments of the hon. gentleman who had just spoken. The original and wholesome practice of the constitution was, that the ministers of the Crown should first state to Parliament the whole of the supplies which were requisite, and then obtain the ways and means of providing for those supplies. Of late years, how ever, the budget had been brought forward by piecemeal (a system which originated with Mr. Perceval), so that the House never could have the whole system under review at one time. He admitted that circumstances might embarrass the right hon. gentleman as to his exact estimate of the peace establishment; but an easy remedy was, to delay further proceedings at present-at least to postpone them until the expected explanations of the noble lord, by throwing a light on the determi❤ nations of Congress, should give the House an opportunity of judging of the probable results of its deliberations. He confessed he was not surprised at the eulogium which he had heard from the right hon. gentleman, and from an hon. gentleman on the floor (Mr. Bankes), on the property tax. Like all deceased personages, its vices had vanished from memory, and only its virtues remained. People were generally favourable to the dead; but it should be remembered that that tax was objectionable-not because it was a tax on property-but because it was impossible to divest its mode of collection from partiality and oppression intolerable in a free constitution. It should also be remembered that the property tax was not absolutely dead-it only slept. The right hon. gentleman had wedded it to war. It would be up again if we were again involved in hostilities. And here he could not refrain from noticing the hint which had fallen from a noble lord and from the hon. gentleman on the floor. It was evident that in estimating the peace establishment at nineteen millions, a troubled state of things was contemplated, and perhaps the recurrence of bloody wars arising out of the proceedings of the Congress. But

the singular event of which we had very recently heard, might lead to a civil war in France. In such a case, he protested against the interference of this country in any way. I take this early opportunity, concluded Mr. Whitbread, to declare, as a hint has been given on the subject, that I enter my solemn protest against any interference on the part of this country in the internal affairs of France.

Mr. Philips was proceeding to make some observations on the partial and oppressive nature of the proposed taxes, when

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that with respect to one of those taxes, to which the objections of the hon. gentlemen were probably the most strong (the tax on windows), he intended to reserve it for further consideration, and for a revision of the schedule.

Mr. Philips then adverted to the proposed duty on cotton, and remarked on the inconsistency of the right hon. gentleman, who no longer ago than last session had declared, that in the event of peace it would be impossible for our manufacturers to go on without a drawback, and who now imposed a duty of 5d. a pound on cotton wool imported in foreign vessels, and one penny a pound on cotton wool imported in British vessels! From any advantage proposed by this inequality, a countervailing duty on the part of the Americans would no doubt deprive us. To France the measure would be highly beneficial. In all the arrangements on this subject the interest of France seemed to be consulted, rather than those of this country. The right hon. gentleman's predictions on this subject with respect to France, had been completely falsified. No duty had been imposed in that country on the importation of cotton; and the greatest protection was there afforded to the cotton manufacture, at the very moment that the right hon. gentleman was devising every possible means to bring ours to ruin. The passing of the Corn Bill in that House had already occasioned a serious alarm in the manufacturing districts of the country. Was it desirable at such a moment to propose measures the tendency of which was to increase dissatisfaction? The hon. gentleman here read extracts from a letter which he had received from a very intelligent individual, resident in the manufacturing districts, in which it was declared that the measures about to be pursued would occa

sion irretrievable ruin to our manufactures, and must compel the emigration of our manufacturers. He knew the right hon. gentleman would contend that it was in the nature of taxation to be thrown on the consumer. But that remark would be inapplicable in the present instance. With respect to the foreign trade in particular, it was impossible.

Sir John Newport said, that his objection. to the Speaker's leaving the chair was, that it went to perpetuate a system of voting the supplies of the year by piecemeal, and not giving sufficient information to the House, contrary to the old and constitutional practice. The taxes might be good or bad relatively; and that was the reason why they ought to be informed of the situation of the country. whole demand, and every article of it, should be known before the supplies were voted. In time of war it might be different; but in peace, they should return to that wholesome principle.

The

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed, that one of the resolutions was to continue all the war duties of excise," with the exception of that on cotton imported in British shipping." The whole extent of his offending, therefore, was, that he did not propose to take off the duty on cotton imported in foreign shipping; the difference of expense on which to the manufacturer would not be above a halfpenny a pound.

Mr. Philips repeated the statement of its being a duty of 5d. a pound.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that that was not the tax then under consideration.

Mr. Finlay declared, that he considered the right hon. gentleman as the most formidable antagonist that the manufacturing interest of the country had ever met with. The proposed system was so ruinous, that he would give it the most determined op. position in every instance. By it the property tax would not merely be continued on the manufacturer-it would be more than doubled. A manufacturer would now have to pay near 3,000l. a year, who had probably never been liable to a property tax of more than 1,0002. As to the difference between the duty on cotton imported in British shipping and cotton imported in foreign shipping, a countervailing duty on the part of the American government would soon equalize it.

Mr. W. Fuzgerald said, that the only

would be allowed to take precedence of the orders of the day.

duty on cotton in Ireland was a permanent duty.

Mr. Elliot said, that in opposing the motion, he gave a vote which he was obliged to give, from the utter want of information to satisfy the House of the necessity of the taxes they were about to

vote.

The House then divided: For the motion, 95; Against it, 24; Majority 71. The House then resolved itself into the committee.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, March 14.

DUTY ON COTTON.] Mr. Finlay presented a petition from the cotton-spinners and manufacturers of Glasgow, praying for a repeal of the duty on cotton, and stating that the drawback on cotton exported would be quite ineffectual. The hon. member, in presenting the petition, made some observations on the impolicy of the duty proposed to be laid on cotton imported in foreign ships. The effect of this, he observed, would be to make a depôt of cotton wool in Holland or France. American ships would be employed to bring the cotton from America to the continent, and British ships would be employed merely as lighters to transport it across the Channel. The American government would not be so neglectful as to fail to impose some countervailing duty on the exportation of cotton wool from that country, in British ships, so that, without benefiting either our navigation or our revenue, the duty would only tend to excite jealousy between the two countries. The progress of the cotton manufactories in France, Prussia, Saxony, and other continental countries, was such as to threaten an ascendancy in those articles, and to render it doubly impolitic to throw any additional burthens upon our manufacturers. It was his intention to move on some future day for a select committee to inquire into the state of the cotton manufactories, and to report their opinions

Mr. Horner asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when a copy of the treaty concluded with America would be laid before the House, and whether it was intended to accompany it with copies of the correspondence which took place in the course of the negociation at Ghent ?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that the treaty would, no doubt, be laid before the House; but that he was not aware of any intention to present the papers alluded to by the hon. and learned gentleman, respecting the conduct of the negociations at Ghent.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Wednesday, March 15.

TAX ON WINDOWS OF MANUFACTORIES.] The Marquis of Lansdowne stated, that there was a subject to which he was desirous of calling their lordships attention without delay, with respect to which many petitions would have been presented, if the forms of the House had permitted it; he alluded to the tax which, from the votes on their table, they knew to be in contemplation in the other House, on the windows of warehouses and marufactories. With the strong opinion which he entertained of the injustice, impolicy, and inhumanity of this tax, he could not suffer the matter to pass without taking the earliest opportunity of calling the particular attention of their lordships to the subject. He was convinced that no modification that could be devised by the noble earl opposite and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, could render this a modè of taxation which ought to be resorted to. Without, however, entering now at length into the subject, he should merely observe, that it was impolitic, as light and air might be considered as part of the raw material in such manufactories,-that the tax was most unjust, because it had no connexion with the opulence of those on whom it was principally to fall; and that it was inhuman, because of the injurious effect which it must have on the health of Mr. Whitbread said, that in consequence those employed in the manufactories. It of a communication from the noble vis-was well known that at best the crowding count, Secretary for Foreign Affairs, who was indisposed, he should defer his motion respecting our foreign relations, which stood for to-morrow, to Monday; and he hoped that, as he had stated the reason for his postponement, his motion on that day

thereon.

Ordered to lie on the table.

together so large a body of persons as were necessary in many manufactories, was far from being favourable to health; but the evil would be increased tenfold if the regulations on this subject, proposed in the Commons, were to pass into a law.

subject, the first view of it which presented itself was this-what was the situation of the country for which their lord

He hoped the noble earl and the Chancellor of the Exchequer would reconsider that part of their system of taxation, and feel it consistent with their duty and incli-ships were now called upon to legislate? nation to abandon this interference with the light and air in these manufactories. Being himself connected with a manufacturing county, he could speak on this point with the greater confidence. To the remainder of the taxes, in as far as they affected those articles which people would have an option whether to use or not, he saw no objection. He might have some doubt as to their productiveness: but he had no objection to them in any other point of view but to this tax on the windows of warehouses and manufactories, he was decidedly adverse, and he could not help stating, at this early opportunity, that in case the measure came to that House, it would meet with his decided opposition.

The country was to be regarded, both as a great agricultural and a great commercial country; and its power and opulence were founded upon and derived from, not one, but both of these sources. This ought to be carefully kept in mind, in considering the nature and consequences of the measure which he now proposed to their lordships for adoption. He said that it was carefully to be kept in mind, because it would show that we ought not to be too much influenced by any line of policy, with respect to this subject, which had been adopted by countries whose situation and circumstances were materially different from those of the country for which their lordships were now to legislate. The policy of importation had, as he was well aware, been adopted by CORN BILL.] The Earl of Liverpool, in many small republics, ancient and morising to move the second reading of this dern-small republics, such as Holland, Bill, which proposed to legislate on a sub- Genoa, Venice, and others that might be ject so delicate in its nature, and so deeply mentioned. These had looked to foreign interesting and important to all classes of countries for their supplies of grain; and, the community, said, he was desirous of as far as they were concerned, that policy having it understood, that the opinion might be perfectly sound and proper. which he had formed respecting it, was But what was their situation? and what not one hastily taken up, but the result of were the circumstances in which they long, anxious, and unbiassed considera. were placed? They had risen by their tion. He had been for the last three commercial pursuits to a rank and opuyears revolving the subject in his mind, lence far beyond the proportion of their and looking at it in every possible light, territorial extent or population. Their and in all its bearings and consequences; condition was such, that they could not he had read, with all the attention in his have done so by the encouragement of power, all the evidence which had been agriculture. Their territory was given on the question, and all the publica limited to admit of the successful adoptions which had been given to the world, tion of any such policy. Even their po many of them of great value, on both pulation was far beyond what could be sides; and he had done so certainly without supported by the produce of their lands; any particular bias on his mind, either and the extent of their population, as well one way or the other. There were sub- as their worth, power, and rank among jects on which perhaps any mind must nations, depended upon circumstances be under some degree of bias, in favour of which rendered a large foreign supply one view of the subject rather than an- indispensably necessary. It was imposother; but if there ever was a question onsible for them to feed their population which his mind was totally destitute of all prejudice, completely free from any undue bias towards one particular view of it rather than another, this was that question. He begged pardon of the House for thus taking up its time on a point which might be considered as personal to himself; but such was the state of his mind with respect to the question now under their lordships consideration.

In attending, then, to this important

too

without these supplies from abroad; and, therefore, a policy which should have for its object the raising at home as much grain as should be sufficient for the consumption of their own population, was totally out of the question. That population, though very large in proportion to their extent of territory, was but small when compared with that of the more considerable nations; and a policy which might be extremely fitting to be adopted

« PreviousContinue »