favor of Panama at that time. It is also natural that even if he had been actuated by no motives other than to arrive at the exact truth, it is natural that a man who began his investigation with that as a basis would be very likely to acquire the idea that Mr. Cromwell was the sole source of activity in favor of Panama in this country during the four or five years prior to the revolution of Panama and the recognition of the Republic of Panama; and that once he had come to believe that, then he might in the very best of faith attribute to that fact results which were not at all due to that fact.

Now, that has been the case with Mr. Hall. I am not discussing the question whether he was acting in good faith or in bad faith in his conclusions, or whether he was trying to make out a case for the World when he made the investigation or not, but that fact appears so conspicuously in numerous places that I will cite only one to show to what extent it leads him in his statements.

On page 317 he states:

Dr. Amador's cables "disappointed" and "hope" were written the first after Mr. Cromwell had told him he would have nothing to do with the revolution, the second after information had been conveyed to him that if he would remain quiet in New York he would receive help from another quarter. Help did come from another quarter. Summoned in haste from Paris, Philippe Bunau-Varilla, one of the New Panama Canal Co., who had been instrumental in getting Mr. Cromwell reappointed as counsel, arrived in New York on September 23, 1903, some two weeks after Dr. Amador had sent his cable "disappointed" to the Isthmus, or just in time for Mr. Cromwell, who was anxious to get under cover after Dr. Herran's warning, to cable to Paris and have Bunau-Varilla take the first steamer across.

Unfortunately I do not have the cable that I believe Mr. Cromwell sent to the New Panama Canal Co. to have Mr. Bunau-Varilla sent over here, but that cable is also among the archives of the New Panama Canal Co., which are the property of the United States, and which are still in France, kept in the vaults there.

I cite that to show that, whether in good faith or bad faith, his belief in Mr. Cromwell as the sole influence and sole force that produced any activity in the United States in regard to Panama carries him to the point of stating, as he does there, that "unfortunately, I do not have the cable that I believe Mr. Cromwell sent," but it is in the archives. That was the state of mind of this man. I cite that as a precise illustration of the point I want to make, that there were two distinct and independent forces working in this country in favor of Panama for some years before the revolution of Panama. One was the New Panama Canal Co., with Mr. Cromwell as its representative, and the other was Philippe Bunau-Varilla, as an individual. Philippe Bunau-Varilla had been formerly chief engineer, along about 1885 or 1886, of the old Panama Canal Co., but he had become inimical to the management of the New Panama Canal Co., for what reasons in detail I do not know; but I do know of my own knowledge that that lack of cordiality and sympathy existed to a very great extent, and that it was in existence as early as 1898 or 1899, when I first met Mr. Bunau-Varilla.

Mr. SHARP. May I interrupt you there?

Mr. PAVEY. Certainly.

Mr. SHARP. I have heard you refer to the New Panama Canal Co. What organization was that?

Mr. PAVEY. What in English we commonly designate as the old company was I think merely called the Panama Canal Co., and that was the De Lesseps company, organized to take over the concession

granted in 1878, and it continued in active existence until about 1894, when it fell into financial embarrassment, and then a different company was organized, called the New Panama Canal Co., as we translate it in English, and in French "La Compagnie Nouvelle du Canal de Panama."

Mr. SHARP. What connection, if any, as a stockholder or adviser or counsel of that company did Mr. Cromwell have?

Mr. PAVEY. He became counsel of that company, according to his own statement in his brief for his fees, in January, 1896. He had, according to this record, been counsel for the Panama Railroad Co. prior to that time, and the Panama Railroad Co. was owned by the New Panama Canal Co.

Mr. Bunau-Varilla was a stockholder in the New Panama Canal Co., but what amount of stock he had I can not state myself, although it is not at all a secret. It has been made public in some of these investigations of the Panama affair. I mention that fact in order not to appear to claim he had no connection with the company; but he had no connection as an officer or a director or a representative in this country or an agent in this country, because of the entire lack of cordiality and friendly relations which existed between them.

That first came to my attention, and his position in the matter first came to my attention in 1898 or 1899. At that time I was in Paris and met Mr. Bunau-Varilla for the first time; and he did to me what he was seeking to do to every American whom he could meet. He learned of my presence in Paris through a mutual friend, and insisted that before I left Paris that this man should bring me to his house to dinner. Dinner with him meant half past eight, and after dinner we settled down in his library, and he never let go of an American victim when he got one in that library until he thought he had converted him; and the first time I dined in his house I stayed until 2 o'clock the next morning, listening to his picturesque and fascinating argument in favor of Panama as against Nicaragua.

He found me in one sense a valuable victim, if I may use that phrase, because I had had very considerable knowledge of Nicaragua, as I had been a clerk in the office of the counsel of that country during its period of most prosperity, and was friendly with Mr. Warner and Mr. Hitchcock, of the Fifth Avenue Hotel; and he, learning that fact, made a special effort to convert me to the cause of Panama, which I am frank to confess he did. He was doing that with every American whom he could meet. I can mention a Mr. Schmidlapp, of Cincinnati; Mr. Herrick, present Ambassador to France; and I can also mention Mr. Loomis, former Assistant Secretary of State, and there were many others. Now, he was doing that in the firm belief that sooner or later the United States would come to adopt the Panama Canal route, and he was contributing his efforts in that direction.

Mr. SHARP. He was a promoter to that extent, was he not?

Mr. PAVEY. Yes.

Mr. KENDALL. How old a man is Mr. Bunau-Varilla?

Mr. PAVEY. Under 55. I should think he was between 52 and 55 years of age.

Mr. KENDALL. A man of prestige in France, is he? Mr. PAVEY. Of very great prestige in his profession, I know his only activity has been in his profession.

and so far as He has built

railroads in Spain and has built railroads in the Kongo, and has been interested in enterprises in South America of different characters, although I do not know about that. He related to me at one time the way he came to go to Panama. His imagination was fired when he was a student at the Ecole de Polytechnique by a lecture which Mr. De Lesseps delivered there, and as a young man he then resolved when he got out of school he would go into the service of the Panama Canal Co. if he could. He did that and became chief engineer at a very early age, and it has become a fetish with him-perhaps I should not use the word "fetish," as it is not quite respectful-but an ideal, just as the Nicaraguan canal was an ideal that no amount of facts or arguments could move the late Senator Morgan from his opinion in favor of the Nicaraguan Canal, and that has been true of Mr. Bunau-Varilla.

My knowledge in regard to this lack of friendly relations with the New Panama Canal Co. first came to my attention in 1899, when I was in Paris again, and renewed my acquaintance with Mr. BunauVarilla by calls upon him. He came to see me and told me a fact that I was not particularly interested in, that a subcommittee of the Isthmian Canal Commission was then in Paris investigating the affairs of the Panama Canal Co., with a view to including that knowledge in its report, and that he wanted to meet the members of that subcommittee, but that he could not meet them through the New Panama Canal Co.; that there would be no introduction he could ever have to them from that source, and asked me if I could arrange it. I called upon Prof. Burr and Mr. Morrison, who were the two members there at that time, and made arrangements so they took lunch with me, and I brought about the acquaintance in that way. Mr. Bunau-Varilla then set himself to convert them, as engineers, by going over all the details of the engineering features of the canal, just as he had done with me in less technical language.

I remember in 1899 my telling him that he might talk to all the Americans he met in Paris, but he could not talk to them fast enough to overcome the public opinion which existed in the United States in favor of Nicaragua; that at that time there was only one opinion. in the United States, and that was that there was merely a hole in Panama, into which a lot of French money had been sunk, and that no canal would ever be possible there, and that the sentiment in favor of Nicaragua would have to be overcome as a matter of public opinion before there could be any expectation that the Government of the United States would adopt that route.

Mr. SHARP. I would like to ask you in that connection, since you appear to be very familiar with the history that led up to the adoption of the Panama route, as a matter of fact should not the late Senator Hanna have more credit for changing that sentiment and for the decision to go to Panama than any other American citizen?

Mr. PAVEY. That is absolutely true. Mr. Bunau-Varilla himself gives Senator Hanna credit for that result. He takes this credit to himself, which I think he is entitled to take-he was introduced to Senator Hanna by Mr. Herrick for the express purpose of giving Senator Hanna the benefit of his knowledge on the subject. I was just about to state that I had urged him to come to this country and make public addresses on the subject before chambers of commerce and other organizations, and he spoke English well enough to do that.

Mr. Herrick and Mr. Schmidlapp secured for him invitations to come to Cincinnati and Cleveland for that purpose, and he came to this country and went to Cincinnati and Cleveland and made addresses on the subject.

Subsequently I arranged it for him to be invited to speak before the Chamber of Commerce in New York City, and with those three meetings as a start he continued for a year and a half prior to the passage of the Spooner bill to do work of that character. He was in the United States a great deal of the time, but of course went back to Paris for a part of the time, but he was over here a great deal. I think he came here first in the fall of 1900 and continued that sort of work during 1900 and 1901, and then to some extent continued it down to the passage of the so-called Spooner bill in 1902. During all of that time he was acting absolutely independent of the New Panama Canal Co. and of Mr. Cromwell, and he continued to do so down to the time of his resignation as minister of Panama, after the ratification of the treaty in February, 1904.

Of course Mr. Cromwell was engaged in a great deal of activity in regard to Panama, and according to this record, which I have no doubt is substantially correct on that point, Dr. Amador came to the United States with the hope of securing the support of Mr. Cromwell, and through Mr. Cromwell the support of the Government of the United States, to a project for a revolution in Panama. All parties seem to agree that that was his object in coming to this country, and that he believed he had or would have the support of Mr. Cromwell and the officials of the Panama Railroad Co. in coming here for that purpose. It also appears from the record that he had after he got here some reason to believe that he was going to have that support; but as some knowledge of his plans came to the attention of Dr. Herran, the representative of Colombia, Dr. Herran wrote a letter of warning to Mr. Cromwell as to the consequences that would come to his company if any aid or comfort were given to the enemy in that shape. The record shows that Mr. Cromwell then turned his back upon Dr. Amador. Mr. Hall undertakes to maintain that this turning of his back upon Dr. Amador was only a ruse on the part of Mr. Cromwell in order to shield himself and his company from responsibility, and then in order to connect up what took place afterwards he had to invent his belief in this cablegram to have Bunau-Varilla come over here at the instigation of Mr. Cromwell, because it is necessary for him to do that to connect his first statement up with the things that subsequently happened.

Mr. SHARP. Do you deny that there was any such cablegram or any such invitation?

Mr.

Mr. PAVEY. No such cablegram or invitation was sent. Bunau-Varilla came here for personal reasons. At that particular moment he came for personal reasons of a domestic character, but he had intended to come a little bit later. He merely came a little sooner than he had otherwise intended, because he was in the habit of coming here two or three times a year for the express purpose of following the course of the Panama Canal question in this country and doing what he could to secure the adoption of the Panama Canal route by the United States.

Mr. SHARP. As a matter of fact, they had a large investment there that they simply wanted to get rid of, and naturally they were impelled by those motives to want the Panama route selected over the Nicarauguan route; is not that the plain truth?

Mr. PAVEY. That is perfectly true.

Mr. SHARP. And the same motives would guide anybody else in wanting to dispose of property when they saw their efforts must only end in failure if they let a new project get under way?

Mr. PAVEY. That is perfectly true; but the point I am making is that whatever Bunau-Varilla did, he did not do it at the instigation of the Panama Canal Co. or at the invitation of Mr. Cromwell or in cooperation with either one of them, because he was not in cooperation with either one of them at that time.

Now, having arrived here with no definite purpose in his mind, he found this situation: He had known Dr. Amador on the Isthmus. He learned through a Mr. Lindo, who was the banker for Dr. Amador when he was here, that Dr. Amador was in New York, and Mr. Lindo sent word to Dr. Amador and Mr. Bunau-Varilla telephoned to Dr. Amador, and in that way they got together. He learned from Dr. Amador what had taken place, which I have described, in regard to the encouragement he had received to come here, and then the fact that Mr. Cromwell had turned his back upon him, and then Mr. Bunau-Varilla himself took up with Dr. Amador, without any relation with Mr. Cromwell or without any relations with the Panama Canal Co., the whole question of the situation on the Isthmus of Panama, and he himself conceived and worked out the plans for the revolution. The documents which Mr. Hall says were drawn in Mr. Cromwell's office were not drawn in Mr. Cromwell's office. They were drawn in the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, under the direction of Mr. Bunau-Varilla, and so far as they were written in Spanish they were copied, letter by letter, by an English stenographer, who knew no Spanish, in order that there should not be any possibility of a knowledge of them leaking out. The whole project of the Panama Canal revolution as it was carried out was conceived by Mr. Bunau-Varilla in cooperation with Dr. Amador between the 23d day of September and the 18th day of November, when the treaty was finally signed, and between the 23d day of September and the 15th of October, when Mr. Cromwell went to Paris, undoubtedly upon the business of the company, but with no knowledge of what was going on between Dr. Amador and Mr. Bunau-Varilla. The transactions were entirely free from even the influence of Mr. Cromwell during that period, and Mr. Cromwell never reappeared upon the scene until he landed in New York on the 17th of November, 1903, the same day that the two new Panama commissioners arrived here, and he then renewed his relations with them, and they came to Washington the next day, on the 18th, arriving here at 9 or 10 o'clock in the evening, and the treaty was signed here at 6.40 on the evening of that same day by Mr. Bunau-Varilla.

During all that period from September 22, the exact day upon which Mr. Bunau-Varilla arrived here, until the 19th or 20th of November, Mr. Cromwell and Mr. Bunau-Varilla never saw each other.

Mr. KENDALL. Nor communicated with each other?