House to listen to, might be constructed | necessary, he was bound to resort to by despatch writers so competent as the some other he preferred, or to succeed noble Earl and his supporters, to arrest by abstinence from any. When it turns for a long time the course which Austria out that, according to his own Papers, was meditating, and which has now be- which for six months have been reviscome a grave event, although it is not ing, to which he might give any form yet appreciated properly. Have those he chose, he has done literally nothing, arguments been used although they are when that inaction has been accompanot given in the Papers? Neither be- nied by failure, no Opposition, however fore nor since the Identic Note is any enervated and divided, no Member of trace of them exhibited. If modesty an Opposition, however favourable to has led the noble Earl to keep them the Government, could pass his conduct back, when this appears, I shall be ready without question. The second Resoluto acquit him. There is one circum- tion, therefore, was inevitable; but it stance, however, which ought to be al- leaves it open to the noble Earl to say luded to in passing-although I shall that judicious measures were adopted at not dwell upon it. On the 19th of April, Vienna, although without success, and I moved for the production of the Treaty that he does not think it prudent to which binds Austria so remarkably, and convey them to the Legislature. So far, fixes her position on the Eastern ques- I well know your Lordships go along tion, because I knew from the best au- with me. But it is not enough to prove thorities that its production at that mo- the justice of the Resolutions, unless ment was the only chance of acting, one can establish their utility. The in our sense, on the still hesitating, House may fairly say that they are not still undetermined attitude of statesmen bound to move out of their way to upat Vienna. Without any argument at hold the Secretary of State when he has all, the noble Earl repelled the Motion, taken a sound line, and to admonish in a way by which his own responsibility him when he has been feeble or inadewas seriously heightened. In short, he quate, unless a good effect upon the took a course which nothing could de- Continent of Europe can be traced to fend, except the opposite result to that their proceeding. I approach that conwhich has arisen. Had the negotiation sideration, and all the more because it of Austria and Roumania blown over- may be rapidly disposed of. Let the and there was considerable hope of it- House only glance at the exact stage of the noble Earl might have come down the transaction. The three Powers laid to this House and said "Your propo- down a new principle. The Ottoman sition was superfluous. We have gained authorities immediately exposed its inour point without you. It was not es- conveniences. The British Government sential to produce the Treaties you re- upheld the Ottoman authorities. quired. We have saved the country kind of refutation was elicited. The eighteen pence or half-a-crown which whole thing remained suspended, and their production would have cost it, thus might have disappeared. One Power showing how adroitly we can blend alone, after a labyrinth of difficulties, finance and foreign policy together." resolved to execute the project of which And it is, my Lords, a great flight of the standard was unrolled. My Lords, statesmanship to do so. But the result it is a perfect fallacy-although some has shown-what I was thoroughly con- who think with me were first inclined vinced of that the proposal was not to adopt it-to assume that nothing now superfluous, but opportune and indis- remains to be contended for, and that pensable. Up to the end of time, the the Austrian step disposes of the subject. noble Earl can never possibly establish The extent of the blow to Ottoman that, had he acted differently, had he integrity, the extent of the disparageacted as usage would suggest, and ment which falls upon the system of something more obligatory called for, the 1856, will be proportioned to the mass negotiation then suspended would have of States who follow that example, who come to the maturity, which he, as well so act as to encourage and confirm the as I, was anxious to avert. The only separative forces of the Vassal Princiinference I draw from this regretable palities. If no one joins, the evil will proceeding is that, if the noble Earl re-be localized. If many join, the crisis pelled one method as improper or un- we are anxious to avert will be precipi No tated. Neither Russia nor the German | one. To describe it briefly, it amounts Empire, although they shared in the to a new and ingenious road across the Identic Note, have, since the Ottoman lines of public law to the dismemberreply, done anything whatever. But ment of Empires. It is just, therefore, even in Italy and France-although that a House like yours-which, although there is not time to prove it—a struggle night by night, we see it plunged into appears to be going on between com- the business of a vestry or a school mercial and political ideas, of which the board, will not forget its mission as termination is uncertain. The opinion a guardian of sound principles and of this House-which, as I have often elevated interests-should do something seen, has a prestige abroad even supe- to restrain the Powers which only verge rior to that which it enjoys within the upon, which only contemplate an error, limits of the kingdom-would be the unworthy of themselves, injurious to us, very barrier to check and guard the and tending to the loss of national coheoscillating Powers. And the opinion of sion in large and complex States, whatthe House would be sufficiently con- ever age, whatever clime they may veyed in both the Resolutions. Both belong to. My Lords, one among many imply that the position of the Identic views which leads me to think the evil Note is not to be sustained. Both imply may be localized, is that the Cabinet of that the Austrian measure ought not to Germany have not the slightest motive be generalized, while both are qualified to extend it; that, as these despatches to isolate it. My Lords, if anyone show, they were drawn into the Identic maintains that the undetermined Powers Note reluctantly and doubtfully; that cannot be held back; that they are too many European Governments look up to intent on the supposed material advan- them for counsel at this moment; that tages of these direct engagements with they are themselves directed by a mind the Vassal Principalities; there is one to which, ideas more just, or more compart of the subject he has not yet at-plete than those which guided it at first tended to. My Lords, the three Powers themselves, when they resolved on the Identic Note, can hardly have observed the lever they were going to furnish to the general disturbers of political society. Indeed, the more we mingle in affairs, the more we see that critical decisions are often come to in a hurry. No sooner is it laid down that dependencies may enter into Treaties which involve a general negotiating faculty, and lead on by easy passages to the right of making peace and war, than every State which is not perfectly compact and homogeneous becomes threatened. If those who rule at Constantinople are forced to tremble for Moldavia, Wallachia, and Servia, France may be disquieted for Algeria and Corsica, the Italian Kingdom for Sardinia and Sicily, Great Britain for various possessions among the quarters of the globe. On the Austrian Empire the principle is calculated to rebound with a disintegrating force which clearly has not been anticipated. For the House will bear in mind that you cannot possibly maintain a special right upon this subject in the Vassal Principalities of Turkey. The despatches of the noble Earl completely overthrow that proposition. The principle is not a local, but a general have often been admitted. But everyone may form his own opinion on this subject, which I scarcely touch upon in passing. My Lords, it is not unusual to anticipate objections on a Motion of this sort, and to reply to them. The practice seems to me a dangerous one, as it is likely to fatigue the House, and indeed I know but one mode of thought with which the Resolutions are in conflict. It is that mode of thought-and many hold it conscientiously—which looks to a regular alliance between Russia and Great Britain as a specific for the maladies to which Europe is exposed. It cannot be denied that any course which discourages or limits the execution of the Identic Note, is unfavourable to the objects Russia has been long accustomed to pursue in the Danubian Principalities. The eloquent historian, Lamartine, pointed out that the sword of Russia had composed the Treaty of Kainardji, by which Turkey was so much humiliated in 1774. Since then, her policy in the Danubian Principalities has never been reversed, although late events may sometimes have interrupted it. To adopt a Motion to disturb it, or to check it, is not the part of men who wish to substitute an intimate relation with that country, for those paths which Mr. Canning and Lord Palmerston bequeathed to us. But the House might be justified in asking, how far that alliance can be compassed, except by sacrificing all the objects for which our foreign policy continues. At present, it is usual to remark that the European balance has been wholly superseded. It may be so. But it is only superseded and eclipsed because Russia draws into her system important Powers which used to counteract her. Should Great Britain fling herself as an additional and a subordinate ingredient into that sinister, dark, and overgrown preponderance, the dismay of those States which prize their independence without large armies to uphold it will be as boundless, as it must be certainly, well-founded. Even, therefore, should it be proved to-night that Resolutions such as these are little favourable to united action with St. Petersburg, they ought not on that account to be rejected by your Lordships. Nations which aspire to exist can hardly be unfaithful to the purpose which renders their existence sacred to the world. The noble Lord concluded by moving the Resolutions. Moved to resolve, That this House concurs with Her Majesty's Government as to the illegality of the demand addressed to the Ottoman Porte by the Three Powers, Austria, the German Empire, and Russia, in their identic note of 20th October 1874.-(The Lord Stratheden and Campbell.) THE EARL OF ROSEBERY said, he did not wish to complain of the delay which had occurred in the presentation of the Papers which the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs promised on the 25th of February last should be laid on the Table of the House in the course of a few weeks, although that delay seemed to him to be somewhat unusual. It was, however, fully compensated for by the contents of the Papers themselves, for he did not believe that so many extraordinary propositions had ever been contained in so small a compass as were to be found in the space of this Blue Book. Some time last year, it appeared, a demand was addressed by Austria to the Porte for the right of concluding an independent Commercial Treaty with Roumania, and several propositions were laid down by Count Andrassy with respect to Servia, which, by some misapprehension, he omitted to prove. The question was complicated by a very extraordinary Paper that was brought before the Foreign Office, and which was signed by Prince Ghika, in which it was asserted that a modification of the Customs system of the Principalities could only be effected in virtue of a special Convention concluded between Roumania and a Foreign Power. That was a most illogical and untenable proposition. It might be alleged that the material interests of Roumania and those of the Ottoman Porte were distinct; but the Porte itself acknowledged that to be so, and it promised to consult with the Principalities in regard to their distinct interests, and to accede to any special arrangements which might be necessary for them. All that the Porte required was that the Principalities should not assume a power which did not belong to them. It was clear that the noble Earl the Foreign Secretary regarded the Convention with Roumania as utterly indefensible, for he had declared that Her Majesty's Government were convinced that the pretensions of Roumania were inconsistent with the terms of existing treaties, and that they could not believe that any of the Powers who had signed the Treaty of Paris would infringe that important international instrument. That vigorous language, however, had not been backed up by any vigorous actionall that the noble Earl did when the matter came to a head was to make a proposition to the German Ambassador, which he promised to communicate to his Government-and the matter then disappears from the Blue Book. In another despatch the noble Earl let down the three Powers in rather an easy manner, remarking that too much importance should not be attached to the political aspect of the question, which lost much of its significance from the declaration of those Governments that they had no intention to weaken the ties which bound the Principalities to Turkey. The direct action of the three Powers in negotiating with the Principalities had done as much as could possibly be done to sever those ties; and if Her Majesty's Government were satisfied that the three Powers had no intention of doing what they actually had done, diplomatic action would seem to be useless. It was clear that the object of those Powers could not be a merely commercial one, because such an object could have been attained with the consent of the Porte, which was I had entered into arrangements with the quite willing that a commercial Conven- Governments of neighbouring Powers tion should be concluded. The noble without applying for the consent of the Earl had proposed a Conference; but Porte; and the present complaint of the proposal was at once declined by the Porte hardly came with a very good those Powers-which showed that their grace, when it was remembered that, in object was not commercial only. It was the words of our late Consul General in not pretended that anything was to be the Principalities, "with regard to Congained by treating the sovereign autho- sular jurisdiction, that treaties and capirity of the Porte with discourtesy. They tulations were virtually a dead letter must have had in view a political ob- there. If now the Porte held the Prinject of some sort. He did not pretend cipalities to the Treaties, it should also to offer an opinion as to what that poli- have required them not to depart from tical object was. The noble Earl had those Treaties where the interests of the suggested several methods by which, Powers were concerned. He believed without detriment to the authority of the that the Customs tariff had never been Porte, the commercial objects professedly strictly observed in the Principalities; aimed at might have been attained: and in various existing Treaties it was but the German Ambassador declared, not made imperative upon the Powers with the somewhat cynical frankness to ask the assent of the Porte for any that characterized the diplomacy of his arrangements they might make with nation, that the positive interests of his States under the suzerainty of the Porte. country could not be endangered by In his opinion, too, it was very inopporquestions of mere form-holding that tune on the part of the Porte to raise she had a right to conclude a direct spe- these doubtful questions. The Governcial Customs Convention with the vassal ment of the Porte were sure to be met provinces of Turkey. The Turkish Go- by rejoinders which were more or less vernment had not been treated with well-founded, and which might weaken common courtesy, and whatever might the position of the Porte when it came have been the object of those proceed-by-and-by to apply for the assistance of ings, their result was perfectly obvious- the Powers in matters of graver interest. a great change had occurred in the He thought the Porte should rest satisEastern Question, and it could not be fied with the assurance-a valuable one doubted that if the Principalities pos--given it by the German Ambassador sessed the right of making independent that Germany had given and would treaties, their position was essentially altered. Nor could it be denied that if treaties were ridden rough shod over in that manner on the plea of material interests, which were undefined, danger must arise both to the security of nations and to the peace of Europe. give no encouragement to any designs which would bring about the separation of the Principalities from the Turkish Empire, or would injuriously affect the position and rights of Turkey. The House would, in his opinion, be hardly justified in imputing to the Powers that they were open to the charge brought against them by the noble Lord (Lord Stratheden); and with regard to the Resolution expressing the regret of the LORD HAMMOND said, that if they sanctioned the pretension of the Principalities to conclude Commercial Con- | ventions, they would sanction that which was entirely inconsistent with the suze-Houserainty of the Sultan, and which was "That no effectual measures seemed to have wholly without warrant. The three been taken to prevent or retard the definitive Powers rested the demand addressed by conclusion of a Treaty between Austro-Hungary them to the Porte upon the terms of the and the Danubian Principalities,” Treaties of 1856 and 1858; the Firman such a Resolution would be equivalent of 1866 and the Treaty of 1856 de- to a Vote of Censure upon the noble Earl claring that the Principalities should the Foreign Secretary, who, he thought, continue to enjoy under the suzerainty did not deserve it. In conclusion, he of the Porte the privileges and immuni- wished to say a few words upon the deties they then enjoyed, including full sire of the Principalities to separate liberty of worship, legislation, com- themselves from Turkey. Such a desire merce, and navigation. He believed on their part was no secret-but was that on many occasions the Principalities very unwise. Practically, they were now rived one way or the other at a definitive settlement of the question-in which event the Correspondence might have appeared in a more complete form than it actually does appear-and partly, they were kept back for the purpose of consulting on the question of publication the other parties to the Correspondence, without whose consent I could not fairly lay them upon the Table. But, so far as my recollection serves me-though I may in the enjoyment of independence, com- | partly in the hope that before they were mercially and otherwise; but directly laid upon the Table we might have arthey withdrew themselves from the guarantee which at present secured to them this quasi-independence they would have little chance of long remaining an independent State. Russia might, perhaps, hold her hand from a feeling of grace and from religious sympathies; but the temptation would be strong, and incorporation with that Empire would bring Russia on the Danube, from which it was the object of the Treaty of 1856 to exclude her. On the other hand, no-have spoken in general terms of laying thing could be more fatal to Austria than any encouragement given to the Principalities to shake off their connection with Turkey. Austria must know that if they did so, they would be either incorporated with Russia, or, if they remained independent, would seek to extend their power by incorporating with themselves some of the neighbouring Austrian Provinces. Community of origin would be a great temptation on the part of some of these Provinces to coalesce with the Principalities, but he did not think it could be the wish of any Englishman that Austria should be weakened by the severance of any further portion of her Empire. THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, before I say anything else on the subject, I hope I may be allowed to congratulate your Lordships on having heard the opinion-expressed I believe for the first time-of that Member of your Lordships' House who of all who sit here has the largest and longest experience of the Foreign Affairs of this country (Lord Hammond). I do not, however, entirely agree with the con'clusions of my noble Friend. Still, although I am compelled to dissent from his conclusions, I think that the point of view from which he regards the question supplies a very useful and necessary corrective to the exaggerated apprehensions of the noble Lord who moved these Resolutions-apprehensions which were, I think, to some extent, shared by the noble Earl who succeeded him. The noble Lord who moved the Resolutions complained that an unreasonable delay had occurred in the production of the Papers, and that there had been a violation of a promise on my part. It is quite true that some delay has occurred; but it has arisen from two causes. I kept the Papers back, the Papers in the course of a few weeks- LORD CAMPBELL interposing, explained that what he said was, not that certain things had not been done, but that we could not see that they had been done. THE EARL OF DERBY: I put the interpretation which I think most people would put upon the Motion. The noble Lord is, of course, quite free to understand his own Resolutions as he thinks fit. The question, however, is not what the noble Lord intends, but what his words imply. One of his Resolutions implies that certain steps, if they have not been taken, ought to have been taken. Now, I do not think your Lordships will, upon the statement which you have heard, endorse that view, and if a division is called for, I shall appeal with confidence to noble Lords on both sides to reject it. In answering the noble Lord, I shall not go back to the partition of Poland, nor discuss the expediency or otherwise of forming a close alliance with Russia. How does the matter stand? The whole story is told in these Papers, and I shall recapitulate |