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would remember that the hon. Member | drawn, dealing with deck cargoes and for Derby (Mr. Plimsoll) refrained from cargoes of grain. The hon. Member for pressing his own Bill, because he ex- Pembroke (Mr. E. J. Reed) understood pected, and was led by the Government it would be open to him to raise in Comto expect, that he would be able to raise mittee the questions to the discussion of many principles embodied in his own which the Government assented, and Bill in Committee on the Government which he hoped they would consent to Bill, and it was because of that that he deal with; and he retained his perfect yielded discussion, and therefore he (Mr. freedom on the questions of compulsory Goschen) trusted the Government would survey and a load line, as to which it not think it necessary to prevent the dis- would be well that the public should not cussion of those points, whatever might derive the impression that the discussion be their own views upon them. Some of those subjects had been shirked in parts of the question had been most ably any way. He (Mr. Goschen) trusted the discussed that day, and he congratulated Bill would pass that Session, and that the hon. and learned Member for Dur- the several matters to which he had ham (Mr. Herschell) upon the able drawn attention would be considered in speech he had just made on the subject Committee, with the view of making the of load line and compulsory survey, in measure as complete as possible under which he had stated his opinions on what the circumstances. might be called the less popular side of the question with so much courage, frankness, and ability. It was most important that opinions should be expressed on both sides of these questions with freedom and frankness. The Government might be perfectly certain that even if those subjects were discussed, they would be discussed not with the view of obstructing, but facilitating the progress of the measure. A practical and businesslike discussion on those subjects in the House of Commons would tend to quiet the public mind. It would also facilitate business if the Government had a distinct policy upon the question of deck loading. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was not disposed to admit that it could be dealt with; at the same time he had left it open to the Government to adopt regulations should it be the opinion of the House that such regulations should be passed. As it was evident they would make some regulations under pressure, it would be much more business-like and practical if they would at once set to work to prepare a clause to be introduced into their Bill. The same remark applied to the question of grain cargoes. The Bill would only deal with outward-bound ships; there was no provision in it which touched ships coming to this country. On that head, he did not think the argument of the Chancellor of the Exchequer at all conclusive. It might be possible to deal with deck cargoes coming from foreign countries. Even at that time of the Session, he thought shipowners would be ready to accept of clauses, if carefully

MR. MAC IVER said, that the hon. and learned Member for Durham (Mr. Herschell), in his admirable and eloquent speech, had misstated the case of those who advocated survey and a load line. Referring to the speech of the noble Lord the Member for South Northumberland (Lord Eslington), he (Mr. MacIver) said, there was no difficulty in knowing what was done in Montreal. The same thing was done voluntarily at every port in the United States at which grain was shipped; there was no difficulty in saying what ought to be done, but there was difficulty in expressing it in the clauses of an Act of Parliament, and he guarded himself against accepting the proposals of the hon. Member for Pembroke (Mr. Reed) as they stood. He hoped the House would agree to the second reading of the Bill without a division; and he wished to congratulate the Government upon the excellent spirit and intention in which their measure was conceived. He thought it afforded a better opportunity for fairly debating the only questions of immediate importance than was possible with regard to the voluminous measure which had been abandoned. There were other questions of importance in regard to which he had ventured to give Notice yesterday, in the hope that, after matters had been sufficiently discussed amongst the parties interested, the Government would themselves bring in by-and-by a complete measure for consolidation and amendment of the laws relating to Merchant Shipping, and would also bear in mind that the in

creased duties which railways and shipping had brought upon the Board of Trade rendered every day more necessary some considerable change in regard to the economy of the Department. If the withdrawal of his proposed Amendments would facilitate in any way the passing of the measure, he would cheerfully place them on one side. He had just received a letter from a London solicitor of very considerable experience in regard to shipping, which was so entirely apropos that he would read an extract from it to the House. The writer said—

"The saddle is being put on the wrong horse

The Government is not to blame; the late Go

vernment did exactly as they have done, or, indeed, they did worse. Sir Charles Adderley has done his best, and Mr. Disraeli very likely spoke the simple truth, when he said he withdrew the Bill with regret. The real blame rests with the permanent officials of the Board of Trade. They made the Royal Commission a delusion, and got the present Government first to propose a monstrous measure, and then to

shrink from a discussion of it."

of survey was a bad one? In regard to
load line, the opinion of the Royal Com-
missioners was equally decided, and he
thought equally without foundation. In
conclusion, he said he did not like the
Act of 1873 at all. He thought its pro-
visions in regard to the detention of un-
seaworthy ships had mainly been exer-
cised against the poorer class of ship-
owners, and in a manner destructive to
the coasting trade of the country. He
said that the powers in regard to de-
taining ships were already excessively
arbitrary, and far greater than they
ought to be, and that what was really
should be increased, but that they should
required was not that those powers
be more judiciously administered. He
was quite sure, from what the right hon.
Gentleman the President of the Board
of Trade had said on a former occasion,
that the Government would be inclined
to take that view of the subject, if it
could be sustained in debate. He thought
the question so little of a Party one, that
he might tell the Government that, if
they carried the Bill in its present form,
the effect would be to worry the ship-
owners without protecting the men, and
to discredit the Conservative party at
every seaport in the Kingdom. But as
the Government were evidently desirous
that the measure should be made a good
one, he hoped the House would agree
to read the Bill a second time, without
a division, and so enable the right hon.
Gentleman (Sir Charles Adderley) to
bring these questions to a satisfactory
solution.

Those views were very widely held, and
he had therefore taken the liberty of
stating them to the House, but he did
not mean to say that he entirely con-
curred with them. He had, personally,
a great deal of respect for the able per-
manent officials of the Board of Trade,
some of whom were personal friends;
and he had no desire to bring any
charge against them, except that he
thought they were overworked, and that
some considerable change in the inter-
nal economy of the Department was
really required. He differed entirely
from the Commissioners on the subject
of classification and survey, and thought
that the facts of the case were as clearly
demonstrable as that two and two made
four. Liverpool was second to no port
in the Kingdom either as regarded its
steamships or as regarded its sailing
ships, and the simple truth of the matter
was that almost every one of the magni-
ficent vessels on which the Liverpool
people prided themselves was already in
some form or other surveyed. The splen-
did iron ships for which the Mersey was
so well known were, almost without ex-read, entirely altered the meaning.
ception, already surveyed and classed,
and he challenged his hon. Friend op-
posite (Mr. Rathbone) on the subject,
as he had done on a former occasion.
How, therefore, he asked, could it be
reasonably maintained that the principle

MR. RATHBONE said, there were
two Liverpool steamship-owners living
who had been examined before the
Royal Commission, and one of them
was Mr. Charles Mac Iver.
He (Mr.
Rathbone) had seen a letter in a news-
paper from an eminent shipowner stating
that the load line had not so much im-
portance as was generally ascribed to it.

MR. MAC IVER interrupted, and said that his hon. Friend (Mr. Rathbone) had stopped in the middle of a sentence; and that the next few words,. which it did not suit his hon. Friend to

MR. DISRAELI: I wish, Sir, to impress upon the House the necessity of remembering that it is of the greatest importance, especially on a subject upon which we are mainly agreed-to read this Bill a second time, and I trust that

that is an observation that may be made with very great success, even in this House, and it would be, no doubt, triumphantly received at public meetings. But if nothing had happened to stir up the feelings of the country, I should like to know what chance we should have had of passing a temporary Bill? I cannot conceive, and will not attempt to describe, the countenances of hon. Gentlemen opposite if we had made such an announcement; but the Government having been obliged to give up the measure, did not lose sight of the subject. They immediately considered whether it was not possible, under the existing law, which was passed by our Predecessors

the House will refrain from entering into a protracted debate, which might render it impossible to come to a final resolution before the usual hour of suspending our Sitting. I, myself, have expressed before-and I wish to express again-the painful regret with which my Colleagues and I felt it our duty, or rather our necessity, to give up our Shipping Bill. But I must say this-that I was convinced when we came to that decision that we had no other course. I am not going to impute to hon. Gentlemen opposite any feelings in putting Amendments on the Paper other than those arising from an imperative sense of duty, and I look upon such Amendments generally as evidence of the great-but which fact will not prevent me interest which the House takes in the question. I believe, too, that very great advantage is gained by those who are responsible for the government of the country, in studying and treating with respect the suggestions of their opponents, who are only performing a Parliamentary duty in making those suggestions. But still, it was the duty of those who are responsible for the conduct of the Public Business to look at the number of Amendments of which Notice had been given, and when I remind the House that on the day when I had the mortification to announce to the House that it was impossible for the Government to proceed with this measure, the number of Amendments on this Bill was 178, and that 140 of them were suggested by hon. Gentlemen opposite, I think the House will acknowledge that on the 22nd of July that was evidence that could not be disregarded in coming to a conclusion on this subject. I shall not stop to allude to the accusations brought against the Government for preferring the conduct of another measure to that of the Merchant Shipping Bill. The Merchant Shipping Bill was not sacrificed in any way to the Agricultural Holdings (England) Bill. If we had resolved to attempt to proceed with the Merchant Shipping Bill, neither of those measures could have been passed. These, however, are controversial questions into which I do not now wish to enter. We have been charged, also, with having introduced a merely temporary measure, and the accusation was, that we ought to have announced our intention when we withdrew the Merchant Shipping Bill. At present,

from doing justice to its great merit, and the benefits which have accrued from it-whether it was not in our power, under the law of 1873, by increasing our staff, by drawing up new regulations, or by some other means, to effect some improvement in its administration, and obtain the result which we all desired. We felt-I will not say the absolute necessity, but the great desirability of some statutory assistance-and we had arrived at that conclusion, especially with the assistance of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who has shown to-day how deeply he is interested in the subject, and how well qualified he is to treat it. But we also felt that it was vain to come down to this House and ask for a short Bill to increase our powers. When, however, this excitement arose, we felt that we could appeal with some advantage to the House. And it is not under the pressure of public opinion, but with the assistance of public opinion that we have introduced this measure. The Vox populi has not coerced us, but has aided us, and it is with the greatest satisfaction that I now see the possibility of passing a measure which I trust will be both salutary and sufficient. Tho right hon. Gentleman the Member for the City of London (Mr. Goschen) treated the measure when it was first introduced as one of very slight proportions, and went out of his way to say that it had already disappointed the expectations held out by me when I first intimated our intention to bring it forward. I entirely adhere to the statement I then made to the House. For myself, I may say that I would not be responsible for

in a very

the measure if it were to be permanent. | opinion of the Medical Council on the Sir, the right hon. Gentleman now speaks subject of the exclusion of women from different way. He has com- registration as practitioners of medicine, pared the measure to a suspension of and wished to ask, Whether Her Mathe Habeas Corpus, and certainly that is jesty's Government contemplated the a description which hardly agrees with introduction of any measure on the the terms in which he spoke of the Bill subject in the next Session of Parliawhen it was first introduced to the notice ment? He felt that it would be inof the House. But whatever may be its discreet to occupy the time of the character-whatever may be its ultimate House by discussing at length this result, I trust-and indeed know-that grievance; but he must remark that we are all agreed upon one point-there were many young women of culnamely, that we should read the Bill a second time, and therefore I must point to the clock as showing that there are "breakers ahead," and that we must not lose any time in doing so. I hope, on Monday, we shall go into Committee -the most important part of the proceedings on the Bill-and arrive on that day at conclusions which will give satis-tal and school of medicine, in which faction to the country.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill read a second time, and committed for Monday next.

PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.

CONSIDERATION OF LORDS AMENDMENTS.
Lords Amendments considered.
Several agreed to; several amended,
and agreed to; one disagreed to.

Committee appointed, "to draw up Reasons to be assigned to The Lords for disagreeing to the Amendment to which this House hath disagreed: "Mr. SCLATER-BOOTH, Mr. Secretary CROSS, Sir MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH, Mr. CAVENDISH BENTINCK, Mr. CLARE READ, Mr. WILLIAM HENRY SMITH, Mr. WILLIAM HOLMS, Mr. DYKE, and Mr. ROWLAND WINN:-To withdraw immediately; Three to be the quorum.

It being now five minutes to Seven of the clock, the House suspended its Sitting.

tivated minds who had been looking out for a mode of supporting themselves independently, and who had directed their attention to the profession of medicine, while a large number of female patients found comfort in the attendance of doctors of their own sex. At that moment, there was in London a hospi

the patients, doctors, and teachers were women. Some of the lady practitioners had passed good examinations, and had degrees from Universities in France and Switzerland, but in the eye of the law they were outlaws. That did not arise from any direct provision in the law itself, but from the action of the Universities, who had, by their regulations about taking degrees, practically excluded women from the register. Under the Medical Act women could be registered; their practical exclusion was due to the Examining Bodies. One lady succeeded in passing the examination of the Society of Apothecaries; but when it was found that there was one licentiate in petticoats, the Society altered its rules so that no woman could henceforth receive its licence. Women being thus practically excluded from the register, though not excluded by the law, the Lord President of the Council had exercised a wise discretion in asking the General

The House resumed its Sitting at Medical Council, who represented the Nine of the clock.

SUPPLY.

Order for Committee read.
Motion made, and Question proposed,
"That Mr. Speaker do now leave the
Chair."

MEDICAL EDUCATION OF WOMEN.

QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.

MR. COWPER-TEMPLE called attention to the Letter from the Lord President of the Council, requesting the

higher states of the medical profession,
what should be done?-and he was glad
to say that the Council made a sugges-
tion which seemed very practical. They
proposed not to interfere in any way
with the existing examinations, or the
existing studies, but that a new and
special examination should be provided
for female students who might wish to
prove their competence for admission to
the register. While the examination
and the teaching would be distinct, both
would be equal in quality to that which
existed for men.
This would give a

legal power of practising to women who | question they addressed a letter to the had passed the proper examinations, and Lord President of the Council. At this the medical profession would then be no late period of the Session they did not longer open to the charge of opposing feel themselves to be in a position to a legitimate demand on the part of consider this important subject, but they women for the purpose of preserving would give it their best attention, and a monopoly to their own sex. He next Session they would be prepared to trusted that the Government, now that state whether, in their judgment, legisa new phase of the subject had been lation was desirable or not. The Goentered upon, would pursue the course vernment felt the country had a right to which they had so judiciously taken up, know next Session what course they and that in the next Session of Parlia- intended to pursue, and whether they ment they would propose some legis- would move in the matter themselves or lation, and relieve him of the duty of leave the subject to be dealt with by an introducing another Bill to open the independent Member. doors of the medical profession to such women as might undoubtedly be competent.

MR. RUSSELL GURNEY thought the Government had adopted the best course in consulting the General Medical Council, and was glad to find that body, after long and anxious consideration, had expressed a decided opinion that women ought no longer to be excluded from the profession. After such a declaration one would hardly imagine that the existing state of things could remain unaltered.

MR. LYON PLAYFAIR asked, whether the Government would lay upon the Table of the House the correspondence which had passed between them and the General Medical Council on the subject?

VISCOUNT SANDON said, he should be most happy to do so, because he thought it very desirable that the House should have full information upon it.

THE INDIAN ARMY-CASE OF
CAPTAIN CHATTERTON.

VISCOUNT SANDON said, that any observations which fall from his right hon. Friend the Member for South Hampshire in reference to medical examinations of women in this country must have great weight, as it was his action that led to the formation of the General Medical Council, which everybody agreed was now a most important body of medical practitioners in this country. He agreed with his right hon. Friend that it would be undesirable to raise on the present occasion a general discussion respecting the admission of women into the medical profession. For the first time, since the present Government came into office, this subject was brought under the notice of the House at the beginning of this Session. They felt it desirable, before forming any opinion upon it, to refer it to the consideration of the General Medical Council, which was one of the most distinguished Bodies of the United King- SIR THOMAS CHAMBERS, on dom, being composed of eminent medi- rising to call attention to the case of cal men in England, Scotland, and Ire- Captain J. Balsir Chatterton, with the land, and also representing the Uni-object of an inquiry being instituted versities. When, therefore, the right hon. Gentlemen the Members for Hampshire and Halifax brought the subject forward, Her Majesty's Government thought to would be better to get the impartial opinion of the General Medical Council with regard to it. That body, however, assembled only once a-year, but the matter was referred to it at the annual meeting in the month of June. They went into it with great care. Some of the most distinguished members of the Council took part in the debates, which lasted two or three days, and after a full and careful consideration of the

OBSERVATIONS.

into it, said, that gentleman, a perfect stranger to himself, belonged to the Indian Army. He was engaged in active warfare during the Indian Mutiny. Being wounded and carried to the rear in November, 1857, he was exposed to the night air and the cold. This originated a form of rheumatism well known in India, called muscular rheumatism. This disease came on at intervals; its progress was often very slow indeed, but it was of a lamentable character, and hopelessly crippled those who could not be cured of it. During a visit he (Sir Thomas Chambers) lately paid to

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