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the House will refrain from entering that is an observation that may be made into a protracted debate, which might with very great success, even in this render it impossible to come to a final House, and it would be, no doubt, triresolution before the usual hour of sus- umphantly received at public meetings. pending our Sitting. I, myself, have But if nothing had happened to stir up expressed before—and I wish to express the feelings of the country, I should again—the painful regret with which like to know what chance we should my Colleagues and I felt it our duty, or have had of passing a temporary Bill ? rather our necessity, to give up our Ship- | I cannot conceive, and will not attempt ping Bill. But I must say this—that I to describe, the countenances of hon. was convinced when we came to that Gentlemen opposite if we had made such decision that we had no other course. I an announcement; but the Government am not going to impute to hon. Gentle- having been obliged to give up the meamen opposite any feelings in putting sure, did not lose sight of the subject. Amendments on the Paper other than They immediately considered whether it those arising from an imperative sense was not possible, under the existing law, of duty, and I look upon such Amend- which was passed by our Predecessors ments generally as evidence of the great - but which fact will not prevent me interest which the House takes in the from doing justice to its great merit, question. I believe, too, that very great and the benefits which have accrued advantage is gained by those who are from it-whether it was not in our power, responsible for the government of the under the law of 1873, by increasing country, in studying and treating with our staff, by drawing up new regulations, respect the suggestions of their oppo- or by some other means, to effect some nents, who are only performing a Par- improvement in its administration, and liamentary duty in making those sug- obtain the result which we all desired. gestions. But still, it was the duty of We felt I will not say the absolute those who are responsible for the con- necessity, but the great desirability of duct of the Public Business to look at some statutory assistance-and we had the number of Amendments of which arrived at that conclusion, especially Notice had been given, and when I re- with the assistance of my right hon. mind the House that on the day when I Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had the mortification to announce to the who has shown to-day how deeply he is House that it was impossible for the interested in the subject, and how well Government to proceed with this mea- qualified he is to treat it. But we also sure, the number of Amendments on this felt that it was vain to come down to Bill was 178, and that 140 of them were this House and ask for a short Bill to suggested by hon. Gentlemen opposite, increase our powers. When, however, I think the House will acknowledge this excitement arose, we felt that we that on the 22nd of July that was evi- could appeal with some advantage to the dence that could not be disregarded in House. And it is not under the prescoming to a conclusion on this subject. sure of public opinion, but with the I shall not stop to allude to the accusa- assistance of public opinion that we tions brought against the Government have introduced this measure. The for preferring the conduct of another Vox populi has not coerced us, but has measure to that of the Merchant Ship-aided us, and it is with the greatest ping Bill. The Merchant Shipping Bill satisfaction that I now see the possibiwas not sacrificed in any way to the lity of passing a measure which I trust Agricultural Holdings (England) Bill. will be both salutary and sufficient. The If we had resolved to attempt to proceed right hon. Gentleman the Member for with the Merchant Shipping Bill, neither the City of London (Mr. Goschen) treated of those measures could have been the measure when it was first introduced passed. These, however, are controver- as one of very slight proportions, and sial questions into which I do not now went out of his way to say that it had wish to enter. We have been charged, already disappointed the expectations also, with having introduced a merely held out by me when I first intimated temporary measure, and the accusation our intention to bring it forward. I was, that we ought to have announced entirely adhere to the statement I then our intention when we withdrew the made to the House. For myself, I may Merchant Shipping Bill. At present, say that I would not be responsiblo for the measure if it were to be permanent. I opinion of the Medical Council on the Sir, the right hon. Gentleman now speaks subject of the exclusion of women from in a very different way. He has com- registration as practitioners of medicine, pared the measure to a suspension of and wished to ask, Whether Her Mathe Habeas Corpus, and certainly that is jesty's Government contemplated the a description which hardly agrees with | introduction of any measure
on the the terms in which he spoke of the Bill subject in the next Session of Parliawhen it was first introduced to the notice ment? He felt that it would be inof the House. But whatever may be its discreet to occupy the time of the character-whatever may be its ultimate House by discussing at length this result, I trust-and indeed know—that grievance; but he must remark that we are all agreed upon one point, there were many young women of culnamely, that we should read the Bill a tivated minds who had been looking second time, and therefore I must point out for a mode of supporting themselves to the clock as showing that there are independently, and who had directed “ breakers ahead," and that we must their attention to the profession of medinot lose any time in doing so. I hope, cine, while a large number of female on Monday, we shall go into Committee patients found comfort in the attendance -the most important part of the pro- of doctors of their own sex. At that ceedings on the Bill—and arrive on that moment, there was in London a hospiday at conclusions which will give satis- tal and school of medicine, in which faction to the country.
the patients, doctors, and teachers were Question put, and agreed to.
women. Some of the lady practitioners
had passed good examinations, and had Bill read a second time, and committed degrees from Universities in France and for Monday next.
Switzerland, but in the eye of the law
they were outlaws. That did not arise PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
from any direct provision in the law CONSIDERATION OF LORDS AMENDMENTS. itself, but from the action of the UniLords Amendments considered.
versities, who had, by their regulations Several agreed to ; several amended, about taking degrees, practically excluded and agreed to; one disagreed to.
women from the register. Under the
Medical Act women could be registered ; Committee appointed, “to draw up Reasons to be assigned to The Lords for disagreeing to their practical exclusion was due to the the Amendment to which this House hath dis- Examining Bodies. One lady succeeded agreed:”- Mr. SCLATER-Booth, Mr. Secretary in passing the examination of the Society Cross, Sir Michael Hicks-Beach, Mr. Caven- of Apothecaries ; but when it was found DISH BESTINCK, Mr. Clare Rean, Mr. William | that there was one licentiate in pettiHENRY SMITH, Mr. WILLIAM HOLMS, Mr. DyKE, and Mr. Rowland Wins:-To withdraw inime: coats, the Society altered its rules so diately ; Three to be the quorum.
that no woman could henceforth receive
its licence. Women being thus practiIt being now five minutes to Seven cally excluded from the register, though of the clock, the House suspended its not excluded by the law, the Lord PreSitting
sident of the Council had exercised a
wise discretion in asking the General The House resumed its Sitting at Medical Council, who represented the Nine of the clock.
higher states of the medical profession,
what should be done?—and he was glad SUPPLY.
to say that the Council made a suggesOrder for Committee read.
tion which seemed very practical. They Motion made, and Question proposed, proposed not to interfere in any way “ That Mr. Speaker do now leave the with the existing examinations, or the Chair."
existing studies, but that a new and
special examination should be provided MEDICAL EDUCATION OF WOMEN.
for female students who might wish to
prove their competence for admission to QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
the register. While the examination MR. COWPER-TEMPLE called at- and the teaching would be distinct, both tention to the Letter from the Lord Pre- would be equal in quality to that which sident of the Council, requesting the existed for men. This would give a
legal power of practising to women who question they addressed a letter to the had passed the proper examinations, and Lord President of the Council. At this the medical profession would then be no late period of the Session they did not longer open to the charge of opposing feel themselves to be in a position to a legitimate demand on the part of consider this important subject, but they women for the purpose of preserving would give it their best attention, and a monopoly to their own He next Session they would be prepared to trusted that the Government, now that state whether, in their judgment, legisa new phase of the subject had been lation was desirable or not. The Goentered
pursue the course vernment felt the country had a right to which they had so judiciously taken up, know next Session what course they and that in the next Session of Parlia- intended to pursue, and whether they ment they would propose some legis- would move in the matter themselves or lation, and relieve him of the duty of leave the subject to be dealt with by an introducing another Bill to open the independent Member. doors of the medical profession to such MR. RUSSELL GURNEY thought women as might undoubtedly be compe- the Government had adopted the best tent.
course in consulting the General Medical ViscounT SANDON said, that any Council, and was glad to find that body, observations which fall from his right after long and anxious consideration, hon. Friend the Member for South had expressed a decided opinion that Hampshire in reference to medical ex- women ought no longer to be excluded aminations of women in this country from the profession. After such a demust have great weight, as it was his claration one would hardly imagine that action that led to the formation of the the existing state of things could remain General Medical Council, which every- unaltered. body agreed was now a most important MR. LYON PLAYFAIR asked, whebody of medical practitioners in this ther the Government would lay upon country. He agreed with his right hon. the Table of the House the correspondFriend that it would be undesirable to ence which had passed between them raise on the present occasion a general and the General Medical Council on the discussion respecting the admission of subject ? women into the medical profession. For VISCOUNT SANDON said, he should the first time, since the present Govern- be most happy to do so, because he ment came into office, this subject was thought it very desirable that the House brought under the notice of the House should have full information upon it. at the beginning of this Session. They felt it desirable, before forming any
THE INDIAN ARMY-CASE OF opinion upon it, to refer it to the con
CAPTAIN CIATTERTON. sideration of the General Medical Council, which was one of the most dis
OBSERVATIONS. tinguished Bodies of the United King- SiR THOMAS CHAMBERS, on dom, being composed of eminent medi- rising to call attention to the case of cal men in England, Scotland, and Ire- Captain J. Balsir Chatterton, with the land, and also representing the Uni-object of an inquiry being instituted versities. When, therefore, the right into it, said, that gentleman, a perfect
. hon. Gentlemen the Members for Hamp- stranger to himself, belonged to the shire and Halifax brought the subject Indian Army. He was engaged in active forward, Her Majesty's Government warfare during the Indian Mutiny. thought to would be better to get the Being wounded and carried to the rear impartial opinion of the General Medi- in November, 1857, he was exposed to cal Council with regard to it. That body, the night air and the cold. This origihowever, assembled only once a-year, nated a form of rheumatism well known but the matter was referred to it at the in India, called muscular rheumatism. annual meeting in the month of June. This disease came on at intervals; its They went into it with great care. Some progress was often very slow indeed, of the most distinguished members of but it was of a lamentable character, the Council took part in the debates, and hopelessly crippled those who could which lasted two or three days, and after not be cured of it. During a visit he a full and careful consideration of the (Sir Thomas Chambers) lately paid to the Hospital for Incurables at Putney, / wrong. Under these circumstances, it he found that a large number of the in- was the duty of the Government to mates were suffering from muscular either make a complete answer to the rheumatism. Captain Chatterton had a case if they could, or else confess that a severe attack in 1862 which obliged serious wrong had been done to this him to relinquish duty for a time. For gentleman. He (Sir Thomas Chambers) this he was reported; a court-martial was not a soldier himself—and he was was held in his absence; and, on the glad of it—he was only a lawyer; but, evidence, he was found guilty of malin- so far as he could see, the grievance gering or shirking his duty. When the he had brought under the notice of the sentence was read out to him at his House was a substantial one, and one bedside, he emphatically denied that he which, at any rate, justified an inquiry was malingering, and said he was then being made into the circumstances of suffering from excruciating rheumatism. the case in order that the truth might He was carried from Benares to Calcutta be arrived at. in his bed, and examined by the principal GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR medical men there and four Presidency said, he had always stood up in defence surgeons; they certified to the Indian of his fellow-officers when he thought Government that he was suffering from they had just cause of complaint on any muscular rheumatism, and was unable ground; but, on the present occasion, to discharge his duty in consequence. he was far from thinking that any such Previously to the court-martial neither ground had been made out. The facts the surgeon nor the assistant-surgeon of the case, as far as he knew them— of the regiment examined him, though and he had taken some pains to inquire they said he was suffering from nervous into the matter-led him to think that, irritability caused by indulgence. He instead of being placed on half-pay, came to England, and on his arrival the Captain Chatterton ought to have been certificate of Sir William Fergusson and required to leave the service long ago. Mr. Canton stated that Captain Chatter- He deeply regretted that the hon. and ton's inability to perform his duties was learned Member should have been incaused by his suffering from acute muscu- duced to bring before the House this lar rheumatism. Assuming that certificate case of an officer who had been accused to be a well-founded statement, it was a of malingering, a crime which, in the slander upon Captain Chatterton to as- Army, was even worse than cowardice. sert that his inability was caused by It would be far better for a man to be his having lived too freely; but that in his grave than have so disgraceful a had been asserted, and an order was title. In the whole of his own experisent from the Home Government to ence in India he had never met with a India that he should be put on half-pay; single case of malingering. The hon. but he could not get even that until he and learned Member had stated that reached England. He had undergone this officer was wounded in India. The 13 surgical operations, and had incurred fact, however, seemed to be that he was great expense in travelling for and ob- simply carried to the rear among the taining surgical advice. He came to wounded. Seven years after his trial Europe for such advice, and some of he was, in 1869, again accused of malinthe most eminent surgeons in Italy, gering, and then removed from the SerFrance, and England were consulted by vice; and now certain officers were him. He was advised that if he would maligned. The case was, therefore, one return to the warmer climate of India which ought not to have been brought he might obtain some relief for his suf- before Parliament. He ventured to ferings, and he accordingly returned to suggest to the Government that it would Calcutta, but he was soon turned out of be better to allow cases of this kind to the Calcutta hospital into the street. be dealt with by courts-martial in India Now, the question was, which side told than to follow the slow and cumbrous the truth ? He (Sir Thomas Chambers) process now in existence. maintained that it was proved beyond a LORD GEORGE HAMILTON said, doubt that Captain Chatterton was suf- that, of course, hon. Members had a fering from rheumatism now, and had perfect right to bring forward Motions suffered from it in 1862, and therefore of this kind for inquiry; but he subthe verdict of the court-martial was mitted that before doing so, they should
make themselves acquainted with the years, and without a particle of evidence facts of the case which they undertook to justify such a proceeding, the position to advocate. He regretted that the hon. of those gentlemen would become inand learned Member for Marylebone tolerable. If the inquiry now asked for had not done so in this case, for after were granted, it would afford an opporthe statement the hon. and learned tunity for making charges against a Member had made, it would be neces- large number of officers in the Indian sary for him (Lord George Hamilton) to Service who had rendered good service rake up certain facts, which both for the to the country, which Captain Chatterton character of the person involved and had not, when no ground whatever had the honour of the Service, had much been offered to the House for adopting better have remained unknown to the such a course. public. This officer never was tried for malingering. The facts of the present
THE SUGAR CONVENTION, 1864. case were that Lieutenant Chatterton, who joined the Army in 1857, was tried
OBSERVATIONS. by a general court-martial in 1862 for MR. RITCHIE, in proceeding to call conduct unbecoming the character of an attention to the constant delays interofficer and prejudicial to good order and posed by France in carrying out the military discipline in that, at Benares, Sugar Convention of 1864, and in fulhe rendered himself unfit for duty by filling assurances repeatedly made to excessive indulgence in intoxicating this country on the subject, said, his drinks. The evidence was very clear object was not to complain of the action against the offender, and of the two of Her Majesty's Government, as reprewitnesses called for the defence one said sented by the noble Lord at the head of that Lieutenant Chatterton was not so the Foreign Office, or the hon. Gentledrunk as to be unfit for duty, and the man who so successfully represented other was unable to give much stronger that Office in this House—for they had testimony in his favour. Lord Strath- apparently done all that lay in their nairn, then Commander of the Forces in power for the best—but to strengthen India, approved of the finding, and on their hands in any further representaa subsequent occasion, when Captain tions they might make to induce the Chatterton sent in a memorial, the sen- French Government to carry out their tence, on inquiry made, was confirmed. engagements. The question was one of Lord Sandhursť succeeded Lord Strath- great commercial importance to this nairn in the command of the Forces, country, as the House would see when he and he was inclined to take a more stated that the quantity of sugar refined lenient view of the case. The charge annually amounted to 650,000 tons, and and the evidence were therefore care- was of the value of from £15,000,000 to fully considered by him, and subse- £20,000,000 sterling. Until within a quently sent home for the opinion of few years past the English sugar refining His Royal Highness the Commander-in-trade had been growing and prosperous, Chief, and also confirmed by him. He but it had now fallen into decline. That (Lord George Hamilton) held in his decline was not owing to any want of hand a letter written by Lord Sandhurst, skill or of enterprize on the part of the dated the 5th of January, 1869, in which refiners, but to the unfair competition he stated that this officer was totally unfit which France was enabled to carry on to be in the Service. There was not one by the system of bounties. The duty item of evidence which the hon. and was levied in France not on the sugar learned Gentleman had been able to refined, but on the quantity of raw sugar adduce that could afford ground upon that went into the refiners' houses, which which to upset the verdict of the court- was supposed to make a certain yield of martial, if that was his object; and if it refined sugar, and that supposed yield was not, he did not understand what was charged. It was important, therecase he had, since Captain Chatterton fore, that that yield should be exactly himself applied more than once to be ascertained. He could show from the allowed to retire from Indian Service. admission of the French themselves that If the conduct of Army medical officers the actual yield was greater by 10 per was to be made subject to examination ent than the estimated yield. The and inquiry at a distance of 10 or 15 French refiner thus paid no duty on