COUNTY COURTS-IMPRISONMENT SMALLBONE. PERSONAL EXPLANATION. by watching carefully the sentences | forgetful of the provisions of the Debtors passed throughout the country, he was Act of 1869," had reference to the County fully convinced that the bringing for- Court Judge who committed the man to ward of this subject had had the effect prison, and not to the learned Judge of making magistrates impose heavier who released him from it. My further sentences for brutal assaults than before. observation that the mistake was not disThe Government, therefore, decided be- covered when the parties were before fore going on with the Bill to renew the Baron Huddleston had reference to the inquiry as to the necessity for it. That legal advisers of Smallbone, who, acinquiry would be made in the Recess, cording to the information afforded to and the matter, if necessary, would be me, were asking for his release, not brought forward in another year. upon the ground that the order for his committal was illegal, but that he was an old man, ill, and unable to pay. That such was the impression which it was my intention to convey, is, I think clear from the context. But, however that may be, I should not be acting consistently with my own views of what is right were I not at once, and unreservedly, to say that, if any observations of mine were so made as to cause pain or annoyance to Baron Huddleston, I extremely regret it. That learned Judge, however, further complains that my statement was inaccurate in so far as I said that Smallbone had been released by him from prison on the ground of old age, ill-health, and inability to pay. He informs me in his letter that the Act of Parliament of 1869 was referred to in the proceedings before him, and all its provisions carefully discussed, and that very little was said as to the man's age, health, or inability to pay, and he adds that he discharged the man on the ground of the illegality of his imprisonment and the irregularity of his committal, and upon no other grounds, and that the other circumstances did not in any way affect his judgment. Sir, I of course accept the statement of the learned Judge, though it entirely contradicts the information which had been given to me, and I again express my regret that I should have been misinformed and thus led into mistake. I must, Sir, however, remind the House that the subject-matter of the Questions of the hon. Member for Londonderry was one in no way under the cognizance of the Attorney General; that the County Court Judges are in no way responsible to him for their conduct; and that he possesses no means of investigating any cases, or alleged cases, of mistake or error of judgment on their part. A gentleman connected with the legal department of the Treasury, and of great experience, procured for me, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sir, I must ask the indulgence of the House for two or three minutes while I make a few observations by way of personal explanation. It will be in the recollection of the House that on Thursday last I answered certain Questions, put to me by the hon. Member for Londonderry (Mr. Charles Lewis), relative to the imprisonment in Winchester Gaol, under an order of the County Court Judge, of a man named William Smallbone, and of his subsequent release from prison by an order of Baron Huddleston. I have this morning received a letter from that learned Judge, who appears to consider that not only did my answers unfairly reflect upon him, but that my statement of facts, so far as it had reference to the proceedings before him, was essentially inaccurate. I need hardly state that my high esteem and respect for Baron Huddleston would at all times prevent my intentionally expressing, either in this House or elsewhere, except under a pressure of duty which certainly does not exist in the present case, any opinion reflecting upon the performance of his judicial duties; and I do not think that the words which I used, and which are accurately reported in The Times of last Friday, can be considered as having that effect. The learned Judge appears to be under the impression that I charged him with forgetfulness of the Debtors Act of 1869. The inaccurate reports in some other newspapers may have led him to that conclusion, but I am sure that upon reference to what I said it will be clear that my expression, "Judge, Registrar, counsel, and solicitors were apparently at the request of the Lord Chancellor, | place upon the subject, and he therethe information upon which I answered fore wished to give the Committee an the Questions of the hon. Member, and opportunity of asserting the principle into the accuracy of such information I that the landlord should be made to had no means of inquiring, even if I had pay for the value which the tenant left had any reason to doubt it. Inquiry in the holding. He denied that there will, of course, now be made into the was any probability of conspiracies because of the inaccuracy of the informa- tween a limited owner and a tenant to tion so procured as to the proceedings defraud the remainderman by pretended before the Judge in Chambers. improvements, and he held that the provision regarding "letting value" was amply sufficient to protect the latter. ARMY-THE SUMMER MANOEUVRES COMPENSATION FOR DAMAGE TO Secretary of State for War, Whether, owing to the unusual inclemency of the weather and the consequent extreme wear and tear of the clothes and ac coutrements of both officers and men during the late Summer Drills, it is the intention of the Government to grant any compensation? MR. GATHORNE HARDY, in reply, said, that in consequence of the unusually severe weather to which the troops had been exposed, his attention had been directed to the subject referred to in directed to the subject referred to in anticipation of the Question. He had already taken steps in respect of it in the sense his hon. and gallant Friend suggested. AGRICULTURAL HOLDINGS (ENGLAND) COMMITTEE. [Progress 23rd July.] (In the Committee.) Clause 7 (Amount of tenant's compensation for first and second class). SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL moved, as an Amendment, the omission in page 3, lines 19 and 20, of the words "with a deduction of one-twentieth," and the insertion of the words "so far as it adds to the letting value of the holding at the determination of the tenancy." The Bill, as it stood, was not on a satisfactory footing with respect to compensation for unexhausted improvements, for, as had been admitted by hon. Member after hon. Member, even on the Ministerial side of the House, the measure did not secure to the tenant such compensation, but only the value, less an arbitrary deduction which in 20 years would absorb the whole. No division had taken MR. DISRAELI said, that the question raised by the Amendment had been discussed the other day. So far as he to any limitation of compensation. The could see, the hon. Baronet was opposed Committee, however, were of opinion He hoped they would not sanction an that there ought to be some limitation. Amendment which was opposed to the principle of the Bill. MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN Bill to that of his hon. Friend the Memsaid, he preferred the proposal of the ber for Kirkcaldy, and hoped the Amendment would not be pressed, inasmuch as it introduced the principle of "letting value" which would involve points difficult for the referees to decide. Amendment negatived. On Motion of Colonel WILSON, Amendments made, in page 3, line 20, by leaving out "one twentieth or of one seventh," and inserting tionate" and leaving out "according to the class." propor SIR GEORGE JENKINSON moved, in page 3, line 22, after "made," to leave out to the end of the clause and insert "Provided that compensation shall be payable only where the outlay is of such a nature, and has been executed and maintained in such a manner, that the benefit of it, if any, will be reaped either wholly or in part by the succeeding tenant whether owner or occupier." On a former occasion an Amendment of his had been met by the opposition of the Government, on the ground that they had taken the opinion of the Farmers' Club, and that that opinion was against it. He, however, had since ascertained that the opinion of the Farmers' Club was expressed in approval of his Amendment, and he therefore hoped the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty, who had charge of the Bill, would now ac- to be determined was, whether the value cept it. Amendment proposed, In page 3, to leave out from the word "unexhausted," in line 22, to the end of the Clause, in order to add the words " 'Provided, That compensation shall be payable only where the outlay is of such a nature, and has been executed and maintained in such a manner that the benefit of it, if any, will be reaped either wholly or in part by the succeeding tenant, whether owner or occupier,"-(Sir George Jenkinson,) -instead thereof. MR. HUNT objected both to the merits and to the time of the Amendment, and pointed out that the paragraph now under consideration was confined to "first-class" improvements, in consequence of the Amendment of the hon. and learned Member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. Rodwell) to strike out the second class. The Proviso, therefore, of the hon. Baronet was not required. THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON asked if the Government had consented to the Amendment of the hon. and learned Member for Cambridgeshire, restricting the operation of the clause to limited owners? of the property had been increased by the improvements. MR. HUNT said, the phrase "letting value" had been introduced simply for the protection of the remainderman. Even although the word was left out, the value of the land would still have to be determined by the number of years' purchase it was worth, which was tantamount to its letting value. SIR HENRY JAMES contended that if the words were retained the interests of the tenant would be sacrificed to the law of entail and settlement. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, that it had now been admitted that the law of entail and settlement stood in the way of the landlord and tenant making agreements for an improved cultivation of the soil-a point which he had always asserted. Formerly this question of value was a claim to the outgoing tenant; now it was a limitation upon him; but in either case the same difficulties would arise. There would be new valuations, the arbitrators would be puzzled, and endless complications would arise. Moreover, he could not see how the letting value could work under limitation. MR. HUNT said, he had so expressed himself. MR. DISRAELI said, the words obMR. NEWDEGATE said, he was injected to applied to all limited estates. favour of some such Proviso, as he did not think it right that the real owner should suffer from the follies and crotchets of his predecessor. SIR GEORGE JENKINSON said, he would not object to withdraw his Amendment. MR. KNATCHBULL - HUGESSEN said, he could not help remembering with satisfaction his prophecy on the second reading, that the Government, in bringing forward this Bill, would find that it entailed dealing with other questions regarding land, and notably with the laws of entail and settlement. He remarked that if the Amendment was to be withdrawn he should move that the latter part of the clause be omitted to afford the Government an opportunity of explaining its effect. It introduced the letting value principle, against which he had already protested, and would create consequent difficulty and confu sion. MR. KNIGHT thought the whole difficulty might be met if the Government would agree to leave out the word "letting." Then all that would have He believed that they would form a prudent check, and that the only practical result would be that they would prevent improvident investments and rash speculations. MR. NEWDEGATE said, the Bill would create a new right on behalf of the tenant, and, as he understood, the objection of the hon. and learned Member for the City of Oxford was that this right did not go far enough, inasmuch as it did not alike attach to the tenant who held under an absolute owner and to the tenant who held under a limited owner. SIR HARCOURT JOHNSTONE said, that he had consulted with the farmers in his own neighbourhood, and found that they did not believe in the letting value a bit. They were satisfied as long as they could work out their own outlay by a term of years, and the idea of importing letting value into the Bill had been from the beginning a perfect absurdity. THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON thought it would be by far the most convenient course to leave out these (England) Bill. words altogether. It was not unlikely SIR HENRY JAMES asked how the that the question of the remainderman Amendment would operate in cases where would crop up again in certain clauses a mortgage in fee existed on the proof the Bill, and therefore he considered perty? it would be better for the Government to introduce a clause for the protection of the remainderman instead of inserting it incidentally. MR. GREGORY said, he was about to have made some such proposition as that suggested by the noble Marquess. It appeared to him they were mixing up this question of the remainderman in a manner which was not necessary. MR. RODWELL said, he had not heard a better mode of dealing with the question than by the adoption of his Amendment, to the effect that where the landlord was not, at the time of the consent given to the execution of the improvement, absolute owner of the holding for his own benefit. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT maintained that the Amendment which the hon. Member for Mid-Lincolnshire intended to move on the 34th clause would effect this object. MR. PELL said, he was unable to see how, when the life-owner occupied a large portion of the estate himself, the remainderman could be protected, except by such a provision as this clause contained. MR. GOLDSMID thought the suggestion of the noble Marquess would meet the difficulty. COLONEL MURE said, the remainderman only came in incidentally. A landlord occupying his own land would not come under the clause at all. Question put, "That the words but so' stand part of the Clause." The Committee divided:-Ayes 193; Noes 131 Majority 62. MR. RODWELL moved, as an Amendment, in page 3, line 22, after "that" to insert "where the landlord was not, at the time of the consent given to the execution of the improvement, absolute owner of the holding for his own benefit." MR. WILBRAHAM EGERTON thought it would be an improvement to add the following words at the end of the Amendment:-" Or where the consent of the remainderman has not been obtained." He would move that the said Amendment be so amended. MR. RODWELL said, he could not see that any difficulty would arise in that case. SIR HENRY JAMES feared that they were legislating too hastily, without considering the effect of their Amendments. Many landlords would not like their tenants to know the real facts of the case. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he would give the observations of his hon. and learned Friend opposite (Sir Henry James) his best consideration, and he had no doubt that the Interpretation Clause could be so amended as to meet the difficulty which had been suggested. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT observed, that the objection made was not directed to the Interpretation Clause; it had reference to that under consideration, and was one of principle. It related to the absolute ownership. Whereever there was a mortgage, the provisions of the Bill would be rendered imperative by this Amendment. MR. OSBORNE MORGAN said, he did not see how it was possible to frame an Interpretation Clause to meet the necessities of case. No amendment could make the landlord the absolute owner of the estate. MR. GOLDSMID said, there were often as many as 10 or 12 remaindermen, and it would be very difficult to get the consent of all of them. MR. KNIGHT thought that the tenant ought to be satisfied with the personal security of the landlord. Amendment to said proposed Amendment negatived. Amendment agreed to. MR. RODWELL then moved in page 3, line 26, after the word "holding," the insertion of the words "The amount of tenant's compensation, in respect of an improvement of the second class, shall be the sum properly laid out by the tenant on the improvement, with the deduction of a proportionate part thereof for each year while the tenancy endures after the year of tenancy in which the outlay is made and while the improvement continues unexhausted." SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL moved to amend the said proposed Amendment by inserting after the words "the amount of the tenant's compensation in respect of an improvement of the second class " the words "shall be such proportion of the sum properly laid out by the tenant on the improvement as fairly represents the unexhausted value thereof to a succeeding occupier." In reply to Sir THOMAS ACLAND, MR. HUNT said, the Government could not give the exact words, but it was their intention by the clause to allow great latitude to the landlord and tenant to make agreements, provided the interest of the remainderman was properly guarded. Clause 8 (Tenant's compensation for third class). MR. DISRAELI said, he proposed to move a re-construction of the clause in a manner upon which he thought there was general agreement upon both sides of the House. The clause provided tenant's compensation of the third class. It seemed to be the general opinion that the manurial value remaining to the incoming tenant was the most satisfactory test which could be applied; and he would accordingly move an Amendment, making the clause stand thus "The amount of the tenant's compensation, in respect of an improvement of the third class, shall (subject to the provisions of this Act) be such proportion of the sum properly laid out by the tenant on the improvement as fairly represents the manurial value thereof to an incoming tenant." MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN remarked that the principle of the Amendment of the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy (Sir George Campbell) was precisely the same as that propounded by the Prime Minister on a subsequent clause. The benefit from an improvement did not always result in the first or even in the second year, and instead of drawing a hard-and-fast line, it should be left to the valuers to determine the value of the improvement to the incom-admissible, inasmuch as although ining tenant. telligible it was not English. SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT remarked that but little benefit was derived from boning or chalking land for the first two or three years, and that therefore it would be unfair in assessing the amount of compensation to charge the outgoing tenant for a larger proportion of benefit from such improvements than he had received. MR. MONK said, that to reckon the proportion at the same amount for each year would not be fair, because some manures were of little use till the second year. MR. CLARE READ said, that the effect of such improvements so far from increasing as time went on was only too transient. He thought the interest of the tenant would be sufficiently protected by the Amendment of the hon. and learned Member for Cambridge. MR. RODWELL thought his proposal had the merit of being the simpler of the two, and that the good results of the measure would be in proportion to the simplicity of its provisions. Amendment to said proposed Amendment negatived. Amendment agreed to. MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN believed the Amendment would very much simplify the matter and save a great deal of discussion. He would only make a verbal criticism. It seemed to him the word "manurial" was hardly MR. KNIGHT expressed his regret that part of the Bill was handed over to the valuers, and contended that there was nothing more difficult to ascertain than the manurial value. In his opinion there ought to be some competent authority, such as the Inclosure Commissioners, who should make an analysis of different manurial values and fix some authorized manurial value. VISCOUNT GALWAY said, he would like to do away with values altogether, if possible. ma MR. R. E. PLUNKETT felt some difficulty as to "manurial" value-what did the adjective mean? It would be possible to put upon it great varieties of meaning. Adam Smith said that nations were directed, governed, and nured," by three sorts of persons. Of course, if the First Lord of the Treasury, who was so great a literary authority, vouched for the word "manurial,” and would undertake the parentage of this unusual adjective, he had no more to say; but, if not, he hoped the phrase "value of manures" would be accepted by the House. MR. WHITWELL believed that these valuations would really be settlements as between neighbours, |