Page images
PDF
EPUB

remit the case to be reheard as to the whole or

any part thereof by the referee or referees or umpire."

MR. MELDON suggested the addition of the following words to the Amendment:-"With such directions as he may think fit."

Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

SIR HENRY JAMES moved an Amendment, that the decision of the Judge of the County Court should be final, except either party should request him to state a case on a question of law or a rejection or admission of evidence for the Judge of the High Court of

Justice.

[blocks in formation]

Charge of Tenant's Compensation. Clause 34 (Power for landlord, on paying compensation, to obtain charge for himself).

MR. FLOYER moved, in page 8, line 41, after "Act," to insert, "for an improvement of the first class." There was a great difference in the character of the improvements comprehended severally under the first, second, and third classes, and, in his opinion, there could be no reason for charging the holding with improvements not of the first class.

MR. HUNT opposed the Amendment. The hon. Member would see, on reflection, that in some cases-such as that of the incumbent of a benefice who let the glebe farm, but had no personalty of his own. If he died or left, the tenant had no remedy, if the improvement could not be charged upon the holding. The law did not recognize the incoming tenant, who could only deal with his predecessor through the

landlord.

MR. FLOYER observed, that it would be no security to the tenant to charge for these improvements, but the advantage would be to the landlord in case the tenant should leave before his time had run out.

MR. GOLDNEY thought the provision would be a great security to the

tenant.

MR. PELL asked, whether or no a tenant for life occupying a farm might obtain from the County Court a charge on the holding?

MR. MELDON said, that by a subsequent clause it was provided that if the landlord, under such circumstances, ceased to be so, the charge fell through.

SIR THOMAS ACLAND had also a question to ask the Attorney General. Suppose a tenant for life had not con

tracted himself out of the Bill, and his tenant went on accumulating improvements under the second class for which the consent of the landlord was not necessary, and the tenant for life died after two years, what security had the tenant against the next man?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL made no reply.

Amendment negatived.

MR. HUNT moved an Amendment, with the view of meeting an objection. taken by the hon. and learned Member for the City of Oxford (Sir William Harcourt). The clause said

"The Court shall have power, on proof of the payment, to make an order charging the holding with repayment of the amount paid," and he proposed to insert after the word "payment " these words—

"On being satisfied of the observance in good faith of the conditions precedent thereto imposed by the Act.”

Amendment proposed,

In page 9, line 1, after the word "payment," to insert the words" and on being satisfied of the observance in good faith by the parties of the conditions imposed by this Act.”—(Mr. Hunt.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, that this Amendment would merely get rid of the difficulty by evading it.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL held that it introduced a reasonable and proper precaution.

MR. MELDON moved to add to the Amendment the words

"And that such payment did not exceed in amount the value of the improvement actually made by the tenant."

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment, to add, at the end thereof,

the words

"and that such payment did not exceed in amount the value of the improvement actually made by the tenant."-(Mr. Meldon.)

MR. DODSON thought the Amendment of the hon. Member for Kildare an infinitely better and more intelligible one than that of the First Lord of the Admiralty.

MR. HUNT remarked that it did not go so far as his proposal.

MR. KNIGHT said, they were imposing on the County Court Judge duties which he could not perform. He thought the whole clause simply

absurd.

MR. GOLDNEY protested against the assumption that the landlord and tenant would conspire to defraud the remainderman.

Question put, "That those words be there added."

The Committee divided:-Ayes 91; Noes 168 Majority 77.

Amendment (Mr. Hunt) agreed to.
Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 35 (Power for landlord to obtain charge for tenant, in certain cases).

MR. MELDON moved, in page 9, line 29, after "tenant," to insert

Provided, That in case of the landlord being a limited owner no such order shall be made by the Court unless upon such notice being given as is mentioned in the concluding part of the foregoing section."

MR. HUNT had no objection to the insertion of the proviso, because he hoped the Committee would, on the suggestion of the hon. Member for MidLincolnshire, strike out the clause.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. CHAPLIN moved to leave out

the clause.

MR. GOLDSMID hoped the hon. Gentleman would explain the reasons which had induced the Government to accede to the Amendment.

MR. CHAPLIN said, the clause provided that, under certain circumstances, the compensation to the tenant was to be

paid by instalments; but, as the tenant would in most cases want the money immediately in order that he might take another farm, he thought it desirable that the clause should be omitted.

MR. MELDON thought that it was for the benefit of the tenant that the clause should be retained, else he would have no chance of obtaining compensation from an impecunious landlord.

MR. DODSON wished to know from the authors of the Bill why they agreed to omit Clause 7 ?

MR. HUNT said, the clause was not in the original Bill, but had been in

serted in it on the Motion of the Lord

Chancellor of the late Government. He was unable to defend it.

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON

complained that there was not some had charge of the Bill in the House of better understanding between those who Lords and those who had charge of it here. The former agreed to the clause and the others agreed to take it out. Amendment agreed to. Clause struck out.

Clauses 36 and 37 agreed to.

Clause 38 (Application of Act to land of Duchy of Lancaster).

MR. GOLDSMID inquired whether it was not necessary first to obtain the consent of the Crown to such a provision?

MR. DISRAELI said, that the assent of the Crown had been already obtained. Clause agreed to.

Clauses 39 to 42, inclusive, agreed to.

Notice to quit.

Clause 43 (Time of notice to quit). MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN moved an Amendment to the effect that two years' notice should be substituted for one, as proposed by the clause. He made the proposal with diffidence, but it was one that had met with favour with the Farmers Club and other agricultural bodies, and its acceptance would be hailed by tenant farmers generally as an earnest of the sincerity of the House in desiring to give increased security of tenure. He reminded the Prime Minister that he himself had once made a similar proposal.

Amendment proposed, in page 12, line 11, to leave the word "a," in order to insert the word "two." - (Mr. Knatchbull-Hugessen.)

MR. ASSHETON objected to the Amendment, because he regarded it as a most grave interference with the tenure of the greater part of the land of this country-namely, with yearly holdings. MR. M'LAGAN supported the Amendment, as without it the Bill would be of a revolutionary character.

advantage was derived, would be overridden. He hoped Her Majesty's Government would be able to accept his Amendment; if not, he should feel it his duty to take the sense of the Committee upon it.

Amendment proposed,

Question put, "That the word 'a' stand part of the Clause." The Committee divided:-Ayes 202; or May."-(Mr. Chaplin.) Noes 39: Majority 163.

In page 12, line 12, after the word " same," to insert the words "unless the year of tenancy shall have commenced in the months of April

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. MELDON expressed a hope that the Committee would not accept the Amendment, which was one of the most unjust and unfair that could possibly be conceived as regarded the interest of the tenant farmers.

MR. BEACH said, that in Hants the Michaelmas tenancy prevailed, and that it was found to act just and fair to both parties, and he objected to a tenant being turned out at a six months' notice, which would materially affect the value of his stock, and not give him sufficient time to find another holding.

MR. MONCKTON said, the tenants attached more importance to this part of the Bill than to any other portion of it, and he hoped the Government would accept the Amendment. He should prefer to see the whole clause omitted from the Bill.

MR. CHAPLIN moved, in page 12, line 12, after the word " same," to insert "unless the year of tenancy shall have commenced in the months of April or May." He said, that when a farm was to be vacated the sooner the tenancy came to an end the better it was for the farm, for the outgoing tenant himself, for the incoming tenant, and for the general consumer. He had always felt the strongest objection to a 12 months' notice to quit, but had deferred to the representations made to him as to the feelings of the tenant farmers. In the parts of the country with which he was acquainted a Michaelmas entry was the rule, and a Lady Day or May Day entry the exception, and the object of his Amendment was, instead of omitting the clause, to obtain the exemption of those holdings which were held on Lady Day or May Day entries. A Michaelmas holding differed very much from those entered upon in the Spring. One of the chief operations was the cleaning of the land and preparing it for the crops, and under such a holding it mattered little whether the notice was six or 12 months. With a Lady Day entry and six months' notice, however, it was the incoming tenant who performed that operation. He might be told that people might contract themselves out of the Bill. That remark applied to his own proposal also; but he protested against accepting anything as permissive which he should reject as compulsory. There was one golden rule in that House, which was to let well alone. In the county which he had the honour to represent-and there was none which had attained a higher position in agriculture-every farm, without exception, was let on a Lady Day entry, and with a six months' notice to quit. That sys- MR. FLOYER said, the Committee tem they believed to be an excellent appeared to be legislating on the asBut if this clause remained un-sumption that every landlord was a good altered, that custom, from which so much one, but their object should be to meet

one.

COLONEL KINGSCOTE said, it was no hardship that a tenant should only have six months' notice. The incoming tenant would recompense him for his clearing the land, and a six months' notice was equally beneficial for the tenant as for the landlord.

LORD ELCHO said, no landlord who had a good tenant would think of getting rid of him, and it was now proposed that a bad tenant, who was deteriorating the land, and lessening the supply of food, should be able to pursue that course six months longer.

MR. GOLDSMID said, it would be better to omit the clause. The six months' notice was only required for the purpose of getting rid of a bad tenant. He should vote against the clause.

the difficulty where both were bad. A
good tenant would be compensated, and
a bad one would have to pay his land-
lord for his neglect, and surely that met
the difficulty. A tenant required a
longer notice to quit under the new
system of farming now in use than
formerly. He considered a year's notice
a fair and reasonable proposition, and
believed that it would cripple the
farmers if the term of notice was re-
duced to six months.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT ob-
served, that the noble Lord the Member
for Haddingtonshire (Lord Elcho), who
had, among other hon. Members, given
the Committee the benefit of their views
on this question, represented a county
which was distinguished by having
perhaps the greatest agriculturist in
the United Kingdom. He referred to
Mr. Hope, of Fenton Barns, and his
tenancy
had been terminated. It would
be of great advantage to the Committee
if the hon. Member for South Norfolk
(Mr. Clare Read), whom he saw sitting
on the Treasury Bench, would inform
them of the opinion of the tenant farmers
upon this subject. He understood the
hon. Member for Mid-Lincolnshire to
say that the tenant farmers did not de-
sire the substitution of 12 months for
six months; but he (Sir William
Harcourt) had observed in the papers
in the agricultural interest that the one
thing which the farmers valued in this
Bill more than anything else was the 12
months' notice to quit. If a man was
turned out of his employment it was a
great hardship not to allow him ade-
quate time to find fresh employment for
his capital. Most of the Amendments
made in the Bill had been made in the
interests of the landlords and not of the
tenant farmers. He should have thought
a proposal which had come down from
the House of Lords would not have
been objected to by the supporters of
the Bill.

MR. RODWELL expressed a hope
that the Government would not accede to
the proposal to alter the clause. He
denied that the Amendments made in
the Bill were unfair to tenants; but
as it
admitted this would be so,
would expose them to the caprice of a
landlord. He did not need the six
months' notice for his own protection,
because he could claim compensation for
waste or neglect.

GALWAY was of opinion that the notice should be "six months" to all intents and purposes.

MR. KNIGHT said, that the tenant farmers would be disappointed if in any cases they were deprived of the protection of the 12 months' notice, and hoped that the Government would retain the clause.

MR. NEWDEGATE said, that the Bill, as it came from the other House, was a Bill which a landlord was very likely to contract himself out of, and the invidious duty was cast upon the House of Commons of protecting those who would not protect themselves. Hon. Members, however, had also to consider what the farmers would say, and were likely to be called to account by them for neglecting their interests. He should support the Amendment.

MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN said, that if this Amendment passed there would be two great classes of tenancies-one with six and another with 12 Upon matters of this months' notice. kind the Government might always rely upon his vote, and he should therefore oppose the Amendment.

MR. DISRAELI said, it was quite true, as the House had been once reminded by the right hon. Member for Sandwich (Mr. Knatchbull-Hugessen), that he was at one time in favour of a two years' notice to quit; but it would have been more ingenuous to have added that this notice was offered as an alternative for compensation for unexhausted improvements. Therefore, when the Government brought forward a measure which secured compensation for unexhausted improvements, he was perfectly free, on the subject of notice to quit, to take any course that he thought fit and best for the country. As far as regarded his original proposition of two years, his mind was a complete tabula rasa when, with much larger information derived from all parts of the country, and after ascertaining what was the predominant feeling of the country, he was called upon to consider the opinion of the other House as expressed in this Bill. In revising the relations of landlord and tenant, the other House had adopted 12 months' notice as a period more adapted to the circumstances of the present day than the period of six months; they had, after much reflection, and with a due sense of their responsibility, fixed upon

this term, and he was not disposed to alter it now.

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON thought there had been on both sides a disposition to exaggerate the importance of the question. It would be quite a mistake to decide this question as if it were one between landlord and tenant; it was as much the interest of tenants to enter upon farms in a good state of cultivation as it was the interest of landlords they should do so. The only question was, which was the most convenient term? No doubt, the two years proposition was made with the object of securing the return of invested capital; that could not be secured by one year's notice, which, on the other hand, was too long to enable a bad tenant to take all he could and more than he ought. He could not see the advantage of the proposed Amendment, and thought, on the whole, that it would be better to adopt the clause as it stood in the Bill.

MR. ASSHETON moved to amend the Amendment, by inserting the word February before April.

MR. CHAPLIN, with reference to the remarks of the Prime Minister, said, that if there was a predominant feeling in the country in favour of 12 months' notice, it was an uneducated feeling. He should take the sense of the Committee upon his Amendment.

MR. GREENE said, the object of the Bill was to protect the incoming and the outgoing tenant, and he hoped Her Majesty's Government would adhere to the clause.

Amendment (Mr. Assheton) negatived. Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment, by inserting in line 2, after the word "of," the word "March.". (Mr. Chaplin.)

Question, "That the word 'March be inserted in the proposed Amendment," put, and agreed to.

[merged small][ocr errors][merged small]

MR. DISRAELI said, he had proposed that, if the Committee on the Agricultural Holdings (England) Bill had not concluded its labours to-night, the Bill should be resumed to-morrow, at half-past 4. Progress would be reported, in order that the Merchant Shipping Bill might be brought in. Motion agreed to.

Committee report Progress; to again To-morrow.

EAST INDIA HOME GOVERNMENT (APPOINTMENTS) BILL.

Resolution [July 26] reported, and agreed to:Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. RAIKES, Lord GEORGE HAMILTON, and Mr. WILLIAM HENRY SMITH.

Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 272.]

[blocks in formation]

MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILLS- Ordered-First Reading-Unseaworthy Ships [274]. Select Committee-Report-Registration of Trade Marks [No. 365.] Committee Agricultural Holdings (England) (re-comm.) [222] R.P.; Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (Abingdon, Barnsley, &c.) (re-comm.)* [271]-R.P.

Committee Report Metropolitan Board of Works (Loans) * [237]; Public Health (Scotland) Act, 1867, Amendment (re-comm.) [230].

Third Reading-Traffic Regulation (Dublin) [244]; Justices of the Peace Qualification [151]; Legal Practitioners* [46], and passed. Withdrawn-Intoxicating Liquors (Sundays) [15]; Medical Act Amendment (Foreign Universities) [103]; Education (Scotland) (Sutherland and Caithness) * [145]; Publicans Certificates (Scotland) * [256].

*

CRIMINAL LAW-THE SPALDING MAGISTRATES-CASE OF SARAH

CHANDLER.-QUESTION.

MR. R. POWER asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If

« PreviousContinue »