of their labour. If their hours of working were reduced, their wages must likewise be reduced, and then they might be exposed to the hardships of want. Two sets of children would be employed to do the labour of one, and the half of their present wages could thus only be allowed them. The Bishop of Chester argued warmly and eloquently in support of the motion. Urged, he said, by a regard for the temporal as well as spiritual concerns of a great body of people in his diocese, he had, since the agitation of the question last year, made it a point to visit all the cotton factories within his reach, and he was satisfied that the length of time which the children were obliged to labour, was not only injurious to their health, but destructive to their lives. The right rev. prelate entered feelingly into a discussion of the objections brought forward against the bill of last session. Earl Grosvenor said, that if their lordships agreed to the motion, they would do an act fatal to the best interests of the country. It would be an act of the greatest inhumanity to those children whose interests they wished to protect. He was most anxious that they should not interfere with the great principle of free labour. If they consented to pass this measure, declaring that the children should not work beyond a certain time, it would be expected that the hours of labour should be reduced, and that the wages should not be diminished. Most of the persons em ployed in these factories were children. Two-thirds were children under the age of 16; five-sixths were children under the age of 20. With regard to the law on this subject, the learned lord on the woolsack had said, that by the common law, no man could treat children with cruelty. The right rev. prelate declared, that this might be true in theory. Now, he must say, that if the law did not reach the case, it was the wish of the petitioners that it should be made to extend to it. They merely desired that their case should be fully understood. He was convinced that, generally speaking, the limitation of hours might be effected without the interference of the legislature, and therefore it would be highly impolitic and dangerous to legislate on the subject of free labour. The Earl of Liverpool said, that this was no question of free labour. It was preposterous to talk of these poor children as free agents. If their lordships adopted this measure, they would not introduce any new principle into their statute-book; but would merely make that effectual by provision, which was now ineffectual for the want of provision. They had heard those who objected to the measure, and they ought now to hear those who supported the principles on which it was founded. The Earl of Lauderdale said, that in every part of the country where cotton factories were established, parents were anxious to send their young children to them, under the idea that they were better taken care of than in any other situation. Sir Robert Peel had never thought of this measure till Mr. Owen had recommended it to him, and sir Robert was much better qualified to judge of its merits than any other person. Upon the whole, he was decidedly hostile to the motion, and he should therefore move, by way of amendment, that there be inserted the words, " silk, hardware, and other manufactures, and also to inquire into the laws respecting the same, and to report their opinion thereupon to the House." Lord Holland said, that their lordships had heard one party, and they should now hear the other. "Audi alteram partem should be written in golden letters, not only in every court of judicature, but on the walls of every legislative body. In the last session their lordships had received a bill from the Commons, and by reading it a second time, they had admitted that there was primâ facie evidence to sanction the measure. It was admitted that the common law was not sufficient, inasmuch as it provided no redress for the parties. In 1802, the law was not confined to apprentices; it appointed inspectors to inquire into the subject, and therefore the doctrine of non-interference must fall to the ground. The question was then put on the amendment, and their lordships divided : Contents, 6; Not-contents, 19. The original question was then put, and carried. prayer Mr. Coke presented a similar petition from the owners and occupiers of land in the neighbourhood of Lynn, in the county of Norfolk. The hon. gentleman said, that the petition proceeded from a respectable body of yeomen, with whom he was sorry he could not on this occasion agree. In his opinion, the present price of corn was fully sufficient to remunerate the farmer. In one respect, however, he thought the agricultural interest might be essentially relieved, and that was by a repeal of the duties on farmers' horses, duties which were very severe and oppressive. Although he could not concur in the sentiments of the petition, he was firmly convinced of the expediency of giving every proper encouragement to the farmer, and in no view more distinctly than in order to afford employment for the poor. To encourage industry was one of the best ways of amending the poor laws. In his own district, a poorhouse had some years ago been erected under Mr. Gilbert's act; but the poor having since been wholly employed, the poor-house had been pulled down. in the last three years, only 135 had been passed. Lord Rancliffe said, he would take this, the first opportunity, of protesting against these petitions. He thought it most extraordinary, that the farmers and land owners should, the very first moment they felt the pressure of a temporary distress, petition for additional duties. They had had many years of prosperity, and he was astonished to see them now coming forward with petitions, the object of which was, to raise the price of bread on the poorer classes of the community. Mr. Lyttelton said, the hon. member for Norfolk, whose opinion on subjects of this kind must always have great weight, had stated, very justly, that if the agricultural horse tax were taken off, it would afford great relief to the farmer. The farmers in the county which he had the honour to represent, felt that tax press most heavily on them; and he should soon have to present a petition from those individuals, praying for some relief from its severe operation. He thought, if government would tolerate a composition for that tax, it would be an extremely beneficial measure; thus, if the farmers were allowed to use a certain number of horses, at particular seasons of the year, when their business absolutely Mr. Western said, he was intrusted required them, instead of assessing them with the presentation of three petitions when they were once employed, for the from Essex, similar to those which had whole twelve months, it would be a very just been submitted to the House. They considerable relief. Such a provision were signed by about 1,200 of his consti- would, in a great degree, meet the wishes tuents, owners and occupiers of land. He of the agriculturists, at the same time begged leave to observe, that amongst that it would not create that jealousy these were many of the great landholders which the prayer of the present petitions of the county. They stated, and it could had excited to a most alarming extent. not be doubted, that they suffered much The House must see, from the remonfrom the existing system. He trusted strances of the agriculturists, how danthat their complaints would be imme- gerous it was to enter on a vicious system diately referred to a committee, and that of legislation. When once it was comthat committee would proceed to examine menced, no person could say where it was the subject without passion or prejudice. likely to end. What did the agricultuIn Essex, the farmers did not find it ralists say? They complained to the worth their while to proceed with spirit in House that the manufacturers were procultivating the soil: the consequence tected, but they were not. What inferwas, that many labourers were thrown ence was to be drawn from this com out of employment; and he believed the plaint? Either that the agriculturists same observation applied to many other should be also protected, or that the counties. The progress of agriculture duties imposed for the protection of the was evidently not so great as it was a few manufacturers should be removed. He years ago; a circumstance that could knew no other way in which the complaint only be accounted for by the want of due could be got rid of. Either the agriculencouragement. In the years 1811, 12, turist must have protecting duties, or and 13, the number of enclosure bills those imposed for the benefit of the mawhich passed that House was 385; while,nufacturer must be removed. He did not (VOL. XXXIX.) (2 U) think the prayer of the petition ought to be granted; and he rather imagined the petitioners themselves did not expect it. The subject, it appeared to him, was introduced as a matter of policy, in order to induce the House to break down that system which had been so long acted on; namely, the importation of heavy duties, or the importation of particular articles from foreign parts, for the purpose of protecting the manufacture of similar articles in this country. Mr. C. Dundas presented a petition from the owners and occupiers of land in the county of Berks, praying for protecting duties on the importation of grain. The petitioners, finding themselves oppressed, under the present state of the law, had deemed it proper to come forward and call for relief from parliament, and he heartily hoped their prayer would be attended to. The farmers could not, the hon. member observed, sell their corn under 80s. the quarter, while it could be imported for 56s. The consequence was ruinous to them. When provisions were extremely low, it was well known that the trader suffered; but when they produced a fair profit, the manufacturer was assist ed, since the agriculturist was enabled to purchase his commodities. The poorrates would be considerably lessened if the farmer received a just price for his produce: he would then be enabled to give increased wages to his labourers, and that distress, which the existing rate of wages occasioned, would be proportionably diminished. Mr. Bennet presented a similar petition from the owners and occupiers of land in the county of Salop. The hon. member said, that he had, after mature deliberation, agreed to, and supported the measure, connected with this subject, which had passed the House a few sessions ago; but he doubted very much whether any further step could be taken, without producing detriment instead of benefit. Mr. Wynn observed, that he thought it his duty to present a similar petition, signed by many respectable persons in Montgomeryshire. With all his respect, however, for them, he could not support their present application. Mr. Byng said, he held in his hand a petition of similar import, from certain yeomen and farmers in the county of Middlesex. He entirely agreed with them in the opinion, that the soil of the country was capable of producing sufficient corn for the maintenance of its inhabitants, bus he deprecated the agitation of the subject at present. The several petitions were ordered to lie on the table. PETITION OF MR. THOMAS GRADY.] Sir Robert Wilson presented a Petition from Thomas Grady, committed yesterday evening to Newgate, for a breach of the privileges of the House. The petitioner, he observed, had an additional claim on him to present this petition, in consequence of the introduction into it of a letter which had been in his (sir R. Wilson's) possession for three weeks. This letter, dated the 2nd of November, purported to be from the hon. member for the county of Limerick. It was given to him (sir R. Wilson) by the petitioner, in order to show the manner in which the hon. gentleman had replied to the letter written to him by the petitioner; and also, perhaps to impress his mind favourably towards the petitioner, by showing the consideration in which he had been held by the hon. gentleman. He (sir R. Wilson) would not pretend to say that the letter was genuine, although it had the appearance of being so. It had the proper post mark. It had the signature of the hon. member, and, above all, it expressed those kind feelings which, as he understood from the hon. gentleman's friends, were so natural to him. But then it varied much from the tone of the reply which, he understood from the hon. gentleman last night, he had sent to the petitioner's letter. Perhaps he (sir R. Wilson) was wrong. The hon. gentleman would soon have an opportunity either of acknowledging the letter, or of disclaiming it. He would, therefore, confine himself to a statement of the contents and prayer of the petition.-The petition sat forth, "That the petitioner was committed to Newgate by order of the House for breach of privilege, in writing and sending to the hon. Wyndham Wyndham Quin a certain letter; that the petitioner humbly submits, that the said W. W. Quin neither showed any superscription or address to him upon the said letter, nor an envelope or post-mark; neither did he show to the House how he received or came by the said letter; and the petitioner is informed that the name of the said W. W. Quin is no where to be found in the said letter; and that the said W. W. Quin offered no proof that the said letter was intended for him, or sent by the petitioner; that the petitioner has presumptive evidence, coming from the said W. W. Quin, to show that he did not conceive that the said letter stated by him to have been received from the petitioner, was of the offensive nature on which the proceedings of the House were grounded last night; for on the 17th November the petitioner received a letter from the said W. W. Quin, dated the 2nd November, a period subsequent to the time of his alleged receipt of the letter produced by him to the House, and which letter is as follows, the original having been for three weeks in the possession of the hon. member who presented the petition of Thomas William Grady: ing inquiry; there is no person here for that purpose in his behalf, except the petitioner, and unless the House shall be pleased to make an order for the petitioner's liberation, the said charge will be ineffectually supported, and may fall to the ground, to the prejudice of public justice; the petitioner begs leave to add, as a secondary consideration, that he was confined for two months before his arrival in London, with a severe rheumatism in his head, and for the first month after his arrival here, was afflicted with the same disease, of which he is ready to give satisfactory proof; and the petitioner being in his sixtieth year, is apprehensive that further confinement may be attended with serious consequences; the petitioner begs leave to observe, that he might have left the House during the discussion with respect to him, and before any order could have been made for his detention, but he declared to those around him, that he would keep his place, and firmly abide the issue; the petitioner therefore humbly prays, That such order should be made on this his petition, as to the wisdom and dignity of the House shall seem expedient." 'Adare, 2nd November, 1818. "I stand so perfectly clear of the 'charge intended to be brought against me that I shall cherfully commit myself ⚫ to the judgment of the House of Commons; you say I have given you mortal 'offence. I am sorry to hear it, for nothing was ever farther from my mind, and if I knew when, I should have great pleasure of assuring you it was very far from my intentions; some long and • rather angry letters have passed between us; I did not begin them; I cannot forget that you were very kind to me in early life; and I cannot behold our 'ancient intimacy, now on the point of being severed, without deep regret: if I am cooler than you, you are much the ⚫abler man of the two; but I think you are now rather hasty; however, though perhaps you choose it should be for the last time, I will still subscribe my-lieve that he was serious. self, your's truly, On the motion, that the petition be brought up, Mr. Quin said, he had no hesitation whatever in avowing that the letter quoted in the petition had been written by him. He did not conceive, however, that it contained a single sentiment which could be turned against him. The fact was, that when the petitioner first hinted to him his intention of bringing forward a charge which should be made the subject of parliamentary inquiry, he did not beHe had con cluded his correspondence with the pe(Signed) W. W. QUIN.' titioner with the letter which he had read "The Petitioner states, that after- to the House last night. The petitioner's wards, on the 15th December, he re-letter, he had last night observed, was ceived another letter from the said W. W. only the first of a series of letters. He Quin, couched in nearly the same terms admitted that he had answered the petiof friendship; but which letter the petitioner more mildly than perhaps he detioner has not brought to this country; and the petitioner never since that period has received any letter from the said W. W. Quin, of which the petitioner is ready to make oath, subject to the pains and penalties of perjury; further, the petitioner humbly shows, that the said Thomas William Grady being only 23 years of age, and too inexperienced for the important task of instructing counsel, and arranging evidence for the approach served. He did not, however, wish to visit the act of the father on the son; and he was not ashamed to say, that he recollected that the man to whom he was writing had been kind to him at an early period of his life. In reply to the letter which was quoted in the petition, the petitioner re-stated the substance of his first communication. He (Mr. Quin) then finished the correspondence with the letter which he had read to the House last night. With respect to the prayer of man who had on Wednesday been comthe petition, he could sincerely assure mitted to prison for a breach of the prithe House, that there was no hon. mem-vileges of the House to expect that he ber more earnestly desirous than himself to show the petitioner every possible indulgence [Hear, hear!]. Mr. Hutchinson observed, that the hon. member for the county of Limerick, had, both on the last and on the present evening made so favourable an impression on the House, that it was a matter of great delicacy to venture any observations on the subject. He trusted that the hon. gentleman who had hitherto conducted himself in so handsome a manner on this occasion, would eventually acquit himself from all imputation discreditable either to himself or his family. He must say, however, that he thought the course pursued by the House towards the petitioner extremely severe. It did not appear to him that the letter in question, even if the production of the petitioner, contained an offence against the privileges of the House of Commons. The petitioner's conduct had been most proper and respectful: sitting below the bar, observing the course the discussion was taking, and hearing the vote for committing him to Newgate, he still patiently waited the execution of the orders of the House. it was his intention, therefore, unless the gallant general should do so, to take an early day of calling the attention of the House to a motion for the petitioner's discharge. He should be very sorry to do any thing that might appear in the slightest degree to reflect on the hon. gentleman, or that might imply any insinuation against him, and therefore he could assure the House that in the step which he was about to take his only motive was to protect an unoffending individual. He gave notice that he would to-morrow make the motion to which he had just adverted. should be set free on Friday, he should certainly oppose the motion for his liberation. The petition was ordered to be printed WINDSOR ESTABLISHMENT.] Lord Castlereagh moved the order of the day, for receiving the report on the Royal Establishments at Windsor. The report was brought up, read, and the first and second resolutions agreed to. On the third resolution being read, viz. "That the annual sum of 10,000l. be issued out of the civil list revenues to his royal highness the duke of York, to enable his Royal Highness to meet the expenses to which his Royal Highness may be exposed in discharge of the important duties confided to him by parliament, in the care of his majesty's person," Mr. Curwen said, he was in hopes, in consequence of what took place in the House when this subject was last before them, that those who were in the confi dence of his royal highness the duke of York, would have brought from him a disclaimer of his wish to take any allowance from the Civil List for the care of his royal father. This disclaimer would have given satisfaction, not only within these walls, but also elsewhere. It was impossible not to regret that his Royal Highness had not come to such a conclusion. He could not but consider it a matter of deep regret that his Royal Highness had made it a matter of more difficulty and delicacy to take any allowance from the privy purse than from the people at large. He deprecated the necessity in which the House were placed of discussing this question. It was a satifaction, however, to think, that whatever opinion might be entertained resMr. Bootle Wilbraham said, he posses-pecting this grant, there was but one opised no information on the subject but that derived from public sources, but he confessed his surprise at the character of the petition which had been just presented. The first part of the petition appeared to him not to fall short of stating that the House had wrongfully imprisoned the petitioner. It was evident that the peti. tioner arraigned the conduct of the House towards him. He by no means thought that the petitioner was entitled to the peculiar indulgence of the House and feeling that it was too much for the nion in the House, that no economy which in the least trenched on the comforts and feelings of our aged monarch was to be countenanced. But it was impossible to connect this grant with the comforts of his majesty. For it was impossible to think that his Royal Highness could be influenced in his attentions to his aged and afflicted parent, by any sum of money which it was in the power of the House to give. Every thing that kindness and attention could possibly do for an aged monarch, the House were sure |