Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir; although in my position as chief of police I guess I am a little bit suspicious of most of these people. I was never convinced; it had not been my experience that most of these people abide by their initial requests completely. They are pretty humble and willing to make all sorts of promises while applying for a permit; and, in some cases-in all fairness to these people, howeverthey don't have control of their people.

Our experience has been that those leaders that we talk to may well think that they are telling the truth and they may be. But the fact remains that those who show up or appear for this demonstration on that day, sometimes it is pretty difficult to find these people that you made the original arrangements with to have this peaceful and orderly demonstration, so to speak. However, that hasn't been the case with me every time. I would say, generally speaking, it has been the exception that they have; but we have had enough of it that I am wary of it certainly.

Mr. ZION. At any time did the members of the National Welfare Rights group or the Gay Liberation group or did any other group come to you and request a permit to demonstrate or assemble or to hold entertainment?

Mr. POWELL. No, sir, they did not come to me, and I don't have any knowledge-I think during this period there was some correspondence from Reverend [Ralph] Abernathy with a group on May 5. Mr. ZION. This group was also included in the publication to which I referred.

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir; on May 5, I believe they did request to

come up.

Mr. ZION. Do you know of any groups other than the National Peace Action Coalition, the Welfare Rights group, the Gay Liberation group, and Abernathy's group [Southern Christian Leadership Conference], do you know of any others who were active in the demonstrations at this time or identified as members of organizations?

Mr. POWELL. There were three initial groups. I am not sure that I have that information in front of me. I believe I can supply that for the record if you would like me to.

Mr. ZION. With your permission, I would like to have the chief identify all of those who, of your knowledge, were active in this shutdown movement.

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir: I am sure we have that information available. The CHAIRMAN. That will be inserted in the record.1

Mr. ZION. Chief, you mentioned 1,146 arrests were made; was that May 5?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ZION. And this was because of the demonstrations which, in your opinion, were apparently not helpful in continuing the activities of the House of Representatives?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, the House was in session that day.

Mr. ZION. Are you aware of any individuals who appeared to be leading this group on the House steps? What people, in your opinion, were most responsible for the activities of the group on the House steps?

Names of organizations supplied by Chief Powell are Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice and Mayday Tribe.

Mr. POWELL. I got there, I had been told-well, we had gotten some information that this group planned to take over the Senate Office Building as the number one goal. We took certain steps to prevent that from happening.

We intercepted some information that indicated the group planned a surprise presentation from "around the corner." We didn't quite understand what they meant. We did learn a little later, as this group of about three or four hundred marched to Independence Avenue and headed toward the House of Representatives side.

I had an inspector there with only 30 men-by this time we were pretty much diverted, they were coming at us from so many directions, and the Metropolitan Police had reserves on standby and they were calling theirs also-but this inspector intercepted this group at New Jersey and Independence Avenue, and one person, whose name I do not have, represented himself as the spokesman for the group, and they made a statement that they had an agreement to meet with certain Members of Congress on the House steps.

I instructed the inspector to inquire as to the identity of those Members of Congress and he did, and I asked him to attempt to confirm with their offices. I had my office call the Office of the Speaker to endeavor to ascertain if arrangements had been made for any large group of persons to meet with Members of Congress, and I found that was not the case.

There was no such arrangement and none had been made; however, shortly thereafter three Members of Congress did appear on the scene and they stated that they had agreed to meet with these people on the House steps.

Inspector Alexander gave me that information, and I told him to advise these Members of Congress that their immunity did not extend to these people and that they should not go on the House steps.

Mr. ZION. May I have the names of the three Members of Congress? Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir. It was-Mr. Parren [J.] Mitchell and Mrs. [Bella S.] Abzug and Congressman [Ronald J.] Dellums are the names that Inspector Alexander furnished me.

Mr. Zion. Did you at any time see any other Members of the House or Senate actively engaged with these people?

Mr. POWELL. At a later time I saw Congressman [Charles B.] Rangel on the House steps, at a later time; yes, sir.

Mr. ZION. I have no further questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, this committee has no direct jurisdiction over statutes governing demonstrations in and around the Capitol. I think it would be parliamentarily possible to draft legislation touching the matter of demonstrations, but certainly we would not have jurisdiction to deal with the whole matter in depth.

It has been some time since I have looked at the statutes. Do you have those available, Mr. Counsel?

Mr. ROMINES. No, sir, I do not have them with me.

The CHAIRMAN. It appears to me, from my memory of the statutes, that probably they are sufficient to deal with the problem. They do have considerable flexibility; as I understand it, they prohibit demonstrations in and around the Capitol, with the flexibility in that the Speaker of the House or the Vice President of the United States can grant such permission. Is that correct?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir.

(At this point Mr. Schmitz entered the hearing room.)

The CHAIRMAN. Now, you are charged with the responsibility of protecting the Capitol and the processes of government that go on in the Capitol. Now, these are absolutely prohibited unless the Speaker or the Vice President grants permission; is that correct?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, that is the way the statute reads, and it had strictly been enforced.

The CHAIRMAN. You stated that you are governed day by day by the court interpretations. Have the courts restricted the application of those statutes?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In what way?

1.

Mr. POWELL. For instance, in Judge Greene's decision with the Quakers, he ruled-it is an 18-page decision-and he ruled that this statute was so general that unless applied very narrowly that it was, in fact, unconstitutional.

2

There is another suit which is still pending, the case of the Rankin Brigade. They sued me and the Congress, the Capitol Police Board, and that case has not yet been resolved. Their contention is that it is unconstitutional, and they believe that unlimited, unrestricted numbers of persons should be permitted to march on the Capitol on any day in any way they so choose.

Of course, that case has not yet been resolved. But Judge Greene made his decision in the case of the Quakers. They came once a week to be arrested to test this statute. Some days there were no more than 12, other days as many as 20. They announced their intent to violate the statute, and in some cases they had Members of Congress who participated with them.

Mr. SCHMITZ. When you say "the Quakers," a specific group?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, that was the name they gave themselves. Maybe I should not have gone at it in that fashion. It was a group of people, anti-Vietnam war people, who called themselves the Quaker Action Group, as they listed themselves. Mr. Lawrence Scott was the spokesman and group leader.3

The CHAIRMAN. Then it is fair to say, as to the application of these statutes, the law is unclear; it is somewhat in a state of flux?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, as being interpreted by the courts at this time. The CHAIRMAN. As I understand, there was no waiver by either the President or the Vice President for the demonstrations on May 1; is that correct?

Mr. POWELL. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And, of course, Members of Congress do have the right to meet with their constituencies in the Capitol, and it was because of the request of the three Members of Congress stating that they did want to meet with them that they were permitted to gain access to the Capitol steps on May 1?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, that, coupled with the fact that at the time that inspector only had 30 men. I don't think it was as much a case of permitting them to meet as that they just stated they were going to meet, and I advised him to retreat to the vicinity of the House steps and we would take steps to protect the building as best we

1 See p. 1480, footnote 2.

2 Jeannette Rankin Brigade, et al., v. Chief of the Capitol Police, et al., 421 F. 2d 1090 (U.S. Ct. App., Dist. of Col. Cir. 1969).

Appellate court decision remanded the case for convention of a three-judge Federal district court. As of ly 23, 1971, the case was still pending before that court.

Executive secretary of Quaker Action Group.

could, rather than to attempt to stop three or four hundred people with the 30 men that he had available at that time.

Mr. ZION. Would the chairman yield?

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead.

Mr. ZION. On this point, I believe the chief testified that he asked. an inspector to check on the claims that Members of Congress had requested a meeting, and the inspector found that, in fact, these requests had not been made. Is that correct?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, as I understand it, that was the first request, and then later on three Members of Congress appeared on the scene and stated they wanted to meet with them on the Capitol steps, as I understand the situation.

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, The Washington Post showed a picture on the front page that was doctored up somewhat of one Member of Congress addressing the group, and higher up on the steps was a nude demonstrator. Was that particular individual arrested?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, he was.

The CHAIRMAN. I am curious as to what he was charged with.

Mr. POWELL. He was charged with three offenses. He was charged with violation of this title IX, 124, and he was charged with unlawful entry which-in fact, I will clarify that, unlawfully remaining after having been ordered to leave,' and he was also charged with indecent exposure.

The CHAIRMAN. Chief, I was observing parts of this demonstration from the Capitol steps, but I was not there when the arrests were made. What happened? What triggered the arrests?

Mr. POWELL. I received word from another inspector by radio about 3:50, or rather 2:50 p.m., that this group had appeared on the House steps and that the group that had attempted to force their way into the Senate Office Buildings and they had repelled over there that they were climbing over the walls and running across the various grassy areas and screaming and yelling as they ran, all heading towards the House steps.

He proceeded immediately toward the House steps and he radioed. me back again that it was a completely disorderly group, out of control on the House steps.

I responded [by going] to the House steps at that point and I arrived there at 2:56 p.m. exactly. It was such a loud, disorderly, noisy group, as I described before, and it just gave me the impression as a riotous mob completely out of control.

I only waited 4 minutes until I got a bullhorn and announced to them several times that they were in violation of the law, [that] it was a disorderly group and they were disrupting the Congress, that the Congress was in session, and that they should leave the steps and the grounds immediately or be arrested. I repeated this three or four times and I gave them 10 minutes to leave.

After I did this, I went inside and acquainted the Sergeant at Arms, apprised the Sergeant at Arms of the conditions, and I was

122 Dist. of Col. Code § 3102: "Any person who, without lawful authority, shall enter, or attempt to enter, any public or private dwelling, building or other property, or part of such dwelling, building or other property, against the will of the lawful occupant or of the person lawfully in charge thereof, or being therein or thereon, without lawful authority to remain therein or thereon shall refuse to quit the same on the demand of the lawful occupant, or of the person lawfully in charge thereof, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and on conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $100 or imprisonment in the jail for not more than six months, or both, in the discretion of the court."

advised by him that he already knew about it and he concurred in my decision that I had taken the proper steps and instructed me to remove these people from the steps and, if they refused to leave, to make arrests.

I returned and at 3:14 p.m. I again got back to the steps and announced over a bullhorn three or four times, and at 3:28 we made the first arrests, and from then on we made more arrests.

The CHAIRMAN. Now this is a considerable number of arrests1,100 and how many?

Mr. PowELL. Forty-six.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you able to follow normal arrest procedures in that case?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, we did.

The CHAIRMAN. What are the normal arrest procedures?

Mr. POWELL. I will have to rephrase that a little bit. It would not be normal for a small group. We used field arrest forms, but we photographed every arrested person with the arresting officer, and we processed these people in the orderly manner that has been set up for the handling of mass arrests. In other words, we did not forego any of the mass arrest forms.

The CHAIRMAN. You were able to photograph the individuals?
Mr. POWELL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This is one of the procedures that I understand that the Washington Metropolitan Police suspended during their 13,000 arrests.

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, I think on Monday or Tuesday.

The CHAIRMAN. Now the 13,000 arrests which Chief Wilson testified to, does that include your 1,100?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, it does.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose Chief Wilson's figure includes the arrests made by all police agencies?

Mr. POWELL. Yes, sir, I believe so. I am sure it does.

The CHAIRMAN. Including the National Park Service? I know that the National Park Service did make a number of arrests on April 24. Now, Chief, I observed that you did have snow fences placed around the Capitol. I am curious as to the cost involved in preparations for the demonstrations on the Capitol Grounds and also the costs of cleaning up afterward. Do you have any testimony in that regard?

Mr. POWELL. No, sir. I believe that figure will have to be gotten from the Architect's Office. I am sure they will give me that if you would like me to place that in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair would direct the counsel to contact the Architect's Office.

We will have that presented later on.1

The gentleman from North Carolina, do you have any questions? Mr. PREYER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chief Powell, of the 1,146 who were arrested, were they charged with violation of the statute prohibiting demonstrations around the Capitol? Was that the basic charge?

Mr. POWELL. Basically, yes, sir. Some of that group-well, of the 1,146 they were all charged with that section.

The committee was subsequently apprised by the Architect's Office that no statistics or figures of the type the chairman desired were compiled.