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members of the American Railway Association, for not doing their share in meeting the situation with which the railways as a whole are confronted. The undersigned members of the commission on car service feel that in adopting their policy, both as to open top and box car equipment, they were acting in accordance with their best judgment and with the sole desire of securing a readjustment of these cars so that the car owners might receive as promptly as possible the number of cars they normally have on their lines.

Because of complaints which were coming to it, the Interstate Commerce Commission called a formal hearing December 28, at which the roads were required to show cause why certain mandatory orders should not be issued by that body. While differences of opinion were expressed, the railways were practically unanimous in the belief that such an order, carrying with it the statutory fine of $5,000 for each violation of a specific order of the Interstate Commerce Commission, would be entirely too drastic and would seriously confuse the situation and make a bad matter worse. The opinion of the commission on car service was presented to the Interstate Commerce Commission in part as follows:

* certain salient facts stand out as reasons for expecting the more prompt movement of cars in the future; namely, the increased per diem; progressive demurrage; and diversion penalty, and that by reason of emergency relocations of equipment, certain car service rules have not been made applicable, and that in the judg ment of the commission on car service, no code of rules could be prescribed by the interstate Commerce Commission applicable to all of the railroads which would properly improve the immediate situation; that it was the purpose of the American Railway Association through the commission on car service to continue the constant supervision of the car service practices throughout the country, and to develop further experience, devoting itself, specially, at all times to extraordinary effort to relieve conspicuous congestions and shortages which interfere with the largest measure of car efficiency, asking respectfully that the proposed order be held in abeyance by the Interstate Commerce Commission at least until March 1, at which time a report could be made of experience under the new rules and present practices and a foundation laid for more intelligent disposition of the question on a permanent basis.”

Following this meeting the commission on car service was instructed by the executive committe to move its headquarters to New York, and at its first meeting at that point was verbally notified by the general secretary that its activities should be suspended until the meeting of the executive committee on January 11.

As to the future work of the commission on car service, whilst there has been improvement in the general car situation, much remains to be done. The undersigned members of the commission on car service strongly urge that accomplishment of effective results in redistributing cars and in eliminating car delay, for which carriers or shippers are responsible, depends entirely upon the railway committee having the confidence and cooperation of the Interstate Commerce Commission, as well as upon the unanimous and united support of every member of the American Railway Association. The Interstate Commerce Commission has already recommended in its annual report the taking over of the regulation of the interchange of cars and two bills have been introduced in Congress for the same purpose. We believe, however, if the Interstate Commerce Commission can be convinced that the railways themselves can successfully cope with any situation that may arise with respect to car shortage or redistribution of cars so that shippers everywhere throughout the country may have equal opportunity in the use of equipment and so that the shippers on a few railways may not receive undue advantage, the American Railway Association will be permitted by the Interstate Commerce Commission to retain control of the situation. It is essential, however, that the Interstate Commerce Commission shall be made to feel that the railway representatives who may be selected to cooperate with it will be clothed with the necessary authority to enforce their acts and that they should be put in a position to reach a prompt and final decision on matters which may be brought up with them from time to time by the Interstate Commerce Commission. The members of the commission on car service consider it their duty to inform the executive committee that, in their opinion, we are confronting a serious crisis. The transfer of the headquarters of the commission on car service from Washington to New York would undoubtedly have been entirely satisfactory to all members of the commission on car service had the change met with the full acquiescence of Commissioner McChord and the other members of the Interstate Commerce Commission and if Mr. Dow continued to sit with the railway representatives here. From all information it has been possible to gather, the change in location is very unsatisfactory to Commis

sioner McChord, and there is no hope of either himself or Mr. Dow attending our future sessions. It would be unprecedented for the Interstate Commerce Commission to turn over this duty to some other Commissioner in the hope that he would serve on the committee of railway representatives.

The members of the commission on car service feel that the results already accomplished are worthy of the support and commendation of the American Railway Association, but have grave doubts of the efficacy of the future efforts of any railway committee acting independently without the cordial cooperation of the Interstate Commerce Commission. It is not to be expected that that Commission will drop its own investigation, and it is much to be regretted if complaints which will continue to come directly to the Interstate Commerce Commission may be handled by that Commission's inspectors without reference of such matters to the commission on car service. Misunderstandings of conditions, which might otherwise be easily explained, are bound to occur, and the final result of the dissociation may be the issuance of drastic orders that might possibly be prevented through the close association that should exist between the work of the commission on car service and that of the Interstate Commerce Commission with respect to the same subject matter.



Senator LA FOLLETTE. You understand the usage here in the taking of testimony. You have the opportunity to run over your testimony, and it is customary to supply anything that comes to your mind as important, and to amplify your answers as fully as you are able to do so, to furnish the committee information along the lines upon which the inquiries have proceeded.

Commissioner MCCHORD. Yes, sir. I will be very glad to conform to that.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. And I hope you will make your testimony as full as possible on this particular point.

Commissioner MCCHORD. I shall be very glad to do so.

Senator LA FOLLETTE. As well as on other points, as they occur to


Senator CUMMINS. I assume that the pages of the report to which 'the Commissioner has just referred and identified will be made part of his testimony.

(The data referred to appear above.)

Senator WATSON. Mr. McChord, the Interstate Commerce Commission was appointed for the purpose of dealing with all the railroad problems, was it not, as far as transportation is concerned?

Commissioner MCCHORD. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. And as far as dealing with those years with this problem; is that right?

Commissioner MCCHORD. Yes, sir.

Senator WATSON. During all this time, since the declaration of war, as well as before, you have been in touch with these various boards having charge of directing the operation of the railroads, as far as you could?

Commissioner MCCHORD. You mean the railroad boards?
Senator WATSON. Yes.

Commissioner MCCHORD. Some members of the commission have; I have not.

Senator WATSON. Without casting any aspersions upon any man, do you not think that if the dictatorship, or the power to control had

been lodged in your commission that you could have done that as effectively as any man?

Commissioner MCCHORD. We would have tried mighty hard.

Senator KELLOGG. I just want to ask one more question. Can you give us any idea of the extent of the increase in traffic between 1915 and 1917?

Commissioner McCHORD. I can furnish you with that. I understand the only thing we have will be measured by freight revenues. Senator KELLOGG. It is given here in the answers of the executive officials by ton-miles. They estimate the increase from 1915 to 1917 to be 135,164,000,000 ton-miles.

Commissioner MCCHORD. Yes, sir.

Senator KELLOGG. Or very nearly 50 per cent. Have you made any calculation to know whether that was accurate or not?

Commissioner MCCHORD. No, sir. The increase of freight revenue would not bear that out.

Senator KELLOGG. They file with you, do they not, the ton-miles? Commissioner MCCHORD. No; we get that at the end of the year. We might take that up with them, Senator. Commissioner Clark can do that.

Senator KELLOGG. I just wanted to know whether that was substantially correct.

Commissioner MCCHORD. It does not tally with the increase in revenue, I should not think, but it may be so. I shall try to get that for you, and see just where they have it.

(Commissioner McChord was thereupon excused.)


Senator CUMMINS. In order to open up the subject, Mr. Commissioner, I will ask you whether you are a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission.

Commissioner CLARK. Yes, sir.

Senator CUMMINS. How long have you been a member of that body?

Commissioner CLARK. Since 1906.

Senator CUMMINS. You are familiar with the organization of the Railway War Board?

Commissioner CLARK. Yes, sir; somewhat.

Senator CUMMINS. You may state in what way the Interstate Commerce Commission was associated with that board.

Commissioner CLARK. The resolution which was read here a while. ago-or, rather, a part of which was read-was adopted at a large meeting of railroad presidents that met here in Washington, responsive to an invitation from the Council of National Defense, and was addressed by the Secretary of the Interior. A part of the resolution which was was not read recited in substance that all of the railroads represented pledged themselves to the principles of the resolution and to obey the instructions of the executive committee in so far as that committee was authorized by the resolution to act, and the railroads that were not represented were asked to give their assent in writing thereafter, which practically all of them did.

The resolution provided for the appointment of a committee of about 25 members, from which there should be selected an executive committee of 5, which was to remain in Washington, in continuous session if necessary. It recited that Mr. Daniel Willard, who was with the Council of National Defense, should be ex officio a member of the executive committee and that the Interstate Commerce Commission should be invited to designate one of its members to be also ex officio member of that committee. I was designated as such member.

Senator CUMMINS. And did the commission designate one of its members?

Commissioner CLARK. As I say, it designated me.

Senator CUMMINS. Therefore you have been reasonably familiar with what the executive committee of the war board has done, I take it.

Commissioner CLARK. I attended a good many of their meetings in the earlier days of the committee. More recently my other duties have been such as to make it impossible for me to give much time to that.

Senator CUMMINS. Now, bearing in mind the terms of the resolution of April 11, 1917, to which you have referred, I wish you would give the committee as full and comprehensive an idea as possible of what it has done in order to meet the situation with which we have been confronted.

Commissioner CLARK. I think that perhaps I first ought to say, Senator, that my understanding of the resolution and its underlying intent and the understanding which seemed to be unanimously entertained by the executive committee did not extend to any declaration of intent on their part to go beyond those efforts which they could make within the limits of the laws by which they were governed. It was an attempt to get higher efficiency and better utilization out of the available transportation facilities by coordinating their efforts and sinking, so far as they might, lawfully, their competitive individual interests.

Now, those efforts have taken a very wide range. The committee endeavored to increase the movement of freight by many means. They have recommended the elimination of passenger train service which could with propriety be eliminated, suggesting in that same connection that the commissions and other authorities be consulted and the convenience of the public be considered, for the purpose, first, of relieving the tracks of passenger-train units which interfered more or less with the movement of freight, and, secondly, to save fuel and make available the locomotives and men that were thus taken out of the passenger service. They have endeavored to induce heavier loading of cars and more prompt unloading and loading of cars. They have endeavored to utilize the equipment in those ways in which it seemed to be most needed. I remember that soon after the committee was created they considered the question of the necessities for fuel and discussed a good deal at length how much power, if any, they had to direct that any traffic be given preference or priority over any other traffic. They resolved all doubts in favor of the propriety, in view of the exigencies of the situation, of their assuming the right to direct preferential movement for coal. They

did not at that time undertake to restrict it to coal from one place to another place, but it was just a general instruction, giving preference in the furnishing of open-top cars and in the movement of coal from anywhere to anywhere, realizing that the demand exceeded the supply and that in a few months winter would be along, with an increased demand and more difficulties. We felt that it was important that the largest possible amount of fuel should be moved from any producing point to any point where it was wanted. Later they took the same view with regard to the movement of iron ore from the Lake ports to the smelting furnaces in the iron-producing districts.

Somewhat later the question of transportation of fuel coal to the Northwest was brought very forcibly to the front. Ordinarily there is at the opening of navigation on the Great Lakes a surplus of coal; my recollection is approximately 2,000,000 tons on the docks at what we call the head of the Lakes-from which a very large portion of the Northwest is supplied. Last spring, instead of having 2,000,000 tons there, they had about 300,000 tons, so there was a shortage of a million and three-quarters to start with. Authorities of the State of Minnesota, particularly the council of national defense of that State, made several visits to Washington to impress very vigorously upon everybody they came in contact with the importance of transporting the largest possible volume of coal to the head of the Lakes during the season of open navigation. The executive committee decided that in the interest of stimulating that movement and making it as certain as possible it was important that the hopperbottom cars should be retained so far as reasonably might be in that service. The larger number of those cars are owned by the railways that transport the greater part of this cargo coal, and they asked the Interstate Commerce Commission to sanction tariffs by which the reconsigning privilege on cars of that kind loaded with coal should be confined to their own lines. In other words, that they could not be loaded on their lines and then on reconsignment sent off their own lines. The Commission authorized that change, which was made up until the close of navigation.

They have urged improved operating practices on the various railroads, but in so far as I know, up until they organized an operating committee for the eastern district a few weeks ago the executive committee did not issue any order transferring equipment from one road to another or for one railroad to give the use of any of its facilities to another railroad. In other words, their efforts were in a general and broad direction, and of a broad and general nature up until the formation of this special operating committee for the eastern district. They have had general direction of preparations for the movement of troops required by the Government, and through their car service commission, cooperating with our Commission's car service bureau, have arranged for the transportation of the materials that the Government has required and desired for the construction of cantonments, camps, etc. That, in a general way, has been the plan of their activities.

Senator CUMMINS. Do you know of any instance

Commissioner CLARK. If you will pardon me, I want to add that they took up vigorously the question of demurrage as an inducement. to the prompt unloading of cars, and under suggestions made by that

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