DEC. 11, 1833.] Election of President.--Condition of Banks.--Presidential Document. [SENATE. The amendment was then agreed to, and the resolution, as amended, was also agreed to. PRESIDENTIAL DOCUMENT. made by an individual, because it was more simple and States;" and in the 15th line, after the words "United convenient; and the same had often been said of all power States," the words "the current market value of the stock whatever in civil government. It was the old argument, of each of the said banks on the 1st day of September that all power should be vested in an individual, for the and the 1st day of November, 1833." convenience of its exercise and execution. Mr. S. supposed this doctrine had been long exploded, by the very nature of our institutions. He said he stood on the principle that power should never be unnecessarily delegated. For thirty-four years after the foundation of our Government, the practice had continued as it was now proposed; it had since fluctuated; but he was desirous of returning to the practice of our fathers in this instance, and it could not be more inconvenient now than at that time. He was perfectly willing, however, to accord with the determination of the Senate. The PRESIDENT had one or two words to say. It was the present rule that all the committees should be appointed by the temporary presiding officer; but if the resolution should prevail, the power would be taken from him, and restored to the Senate; and even if the vote for its adoption should take from him the exercise of that power, he must still be governed by principles, however much the consequences might be dreaded. Of all the duties assigned him, none were so unpleasant as the appointment of the standing committees; it was impossible to satisfy all parties; indeed, he could seldom satisfy himself; and he should feel better neither to trust himself, nor be trusted by the Senate. He should, however, be perfectly content with whatever decision might be made by a majority of the Senate. vote: The following resolution, offered yesterday by Mr. CLAY, was then taken up for consideration: "Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to inform the Senate whether a paper under date of the day of September, 1833, purporting to have been read by him to the heads of the several departments, relating to the deposites of the public money in the treasury of the United States, and alleged to have been published by his authority, be genuine or not; and if it be genuine, that he be also requested to cause a copy of the said paper to be laid before the Senate." The blank was then filled up with the word "eighteenth." Mr. FORSYTH said that this was an unusual call, and he was desirous to know for what purpose it had been made, and for what uses the paper which had been called for was intended. He presumed that no one had any doubt as to its genuineness. He had none. Mr. CLAY replied, that the reasons for the call must be obvious, and would readily present themselves to every Senator; and, believing thus, he had not thought it necessary to suggest them. It had been said that the President The President was then excused by the following had issued a particular paper, which he had read to the members of his cabinet, which had been promulgated to YEAS-Messrs. Bell, Calhoun, Chambers, Clay, Ewing, the public as his, and which was in the possession of the Frelinghuysen, Kent, Knight, Mangum, Naudain, Poin- country as his. But the Senate had had no official decladexter, Prentiss, Preston, Robbins, Silsbee, Smith, South-ration of the President, nor any official communication to ard, Sprague, Swift, Tomlinson, Tyler, Webster, White-them of this paper, nor any thing in any form, from him, which affirmed that this paper was his. If the President NAYS-Messrs. Benton, Bibb, Brown, Forsyth, Grundy, had merely read a paper to the members of his cabinet, Hendricks, Hill, Kane, King, of Alabama, Moore, Morris, Rives, Robinson, Shepley, Tallmadge, Tipton, Wilkins, Wright-18. 2.3. a Mr. SPRAGUE said it was necessary to designate time when the committees should be appointed, and, on his motion, it was fixed on Thursday next. WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 11. ELECTION OF PRESIDENT. Mr. BIBB, pursuant to notice, presented a joint resolution, proposing certain amendments of the constitution of the United States, on the subject of the election of a President and Vice President; which was read a first time, laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. B. gave notice that he should ask the Senate to take up this resolution, and the one offered by Mr. BENTON on this subject, on the second Monday in January. CONDITION OF BANKS. On motion of Mr. CLAY, the Senate proceeded to consider the following resolution offered by Mr. BEN TON: "Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to report to the Senate- 1. A statement of the amount of public moneys in the Bank of the United States at the end of each month, for each year, from the establishment of the bank to the present time. without promulgating that paper to the world, it would have presented a totally different question. Gentlemen would have reasonably doubted if they possessed a right to call for the production of a paper which was confidential between the President and the members of his cabinet. But this paper had been promulgated to the world; and therefore, the Senate, if it was the production of the Presi dent, had a right to call for an official copy, that they might thus be assured, from the highest source, that it was genuine. He had himself no doubt that the paper was genuine, but the fact only rested, at present, on the assertion of a newspaper, and it was not every assertion of every newspaper which was fully entitled to credit. The only testimony, now, was the assertion of the editor of a newspaper, and it was only respectful to the President to ask him for a copy; and if a copy was communicated, there could be no right to presume that it was not genuine. He was influenced by another reason. This was a proceeding altogether unprecedented in the annals of our country. It was the first instance of the publication of a paper read by the President to the heads of the executive departments. The constitution authorized the President to call on the members of the cabinet for their opinions, in writing, on all subjects under deliberation; but this document was a reversal of that constitutional rule; for, instead of going to the heads of departments for their opinions, the President had, by this paper, communicated the reasons which ought to influence their judgment. He would not go into the subject to show that it lay at the bottom of this inquiry by what authority, or for what reasons, the public deposites were removed from the bank, where Con 2. The average amount of the same for each year. 3. The average of the same for the whole time." The question being on the amendment proposed by Mr.gress designed that they should be put, and placed in CLAY, banks, where Congress designed that they should not be Mr. CLAY modified his resolution in the 9th line, by put. That was a part of the subject which would here inserting the words "treasury of the" before "United after come up for discussion. He had merely risen to SENATE.] Presidential Document. [DEC. 11, 1833. ing to them? And if they could do this, could they not go still further, and call upon him for any thing he might have said in conversation to any single member, and which had, by some means, got into a newspaper? Where, in fact, could a line be drawn? What if the members were lawyers; and he would ask of them what, in law, was the difference between words written and words spoken' Was not the whole of it parole? and the Senate might just answer the inquiry of the gentleman from Georgia, and to say that he wished to ascertain the genuineness of this paper, which now only rested on newspaper authority; and because, if it was an official act of the President, he was desirous to have it before the Senate in an official character. If any gentleman objected to the word "genuineness" in his resolution, he had no desire to retain it. It was merely his object to obtain possession of the paper, and he would then be willing to assume its genuine-as well call for what was spoken as for what was written. ness. He had no doubt that a great many communications were made between the President and his cabinet on that day. The President might object to send a copy to the Senate. He had already given it to the world. Every Senator might take up the Globe, and read the paper, and might consider it the act of the President, and as much to be relied on as such as if he had before him the autograph of the President. In asking for the yeas and nays, he had no desire to deter any member of the Senate from using this paper. It might be used from the Globe in which it was printed, as well as if a copy were communicated from the President. But his object was to prevent the Senate from putting a question to the President which he might not consider himself bound to answer. Mr. FORSYTH said, if he understood the honorable Senator from Kentucky correctly, he admitted that with the intercourse between the President and his Secretaries, whether oral or written, the Senate had nothing to do. This view of the subject Mr. F. did not conceive to be affected by the publicity which, whether with or without the consent of the President, had been given to the paper referred to in the resolution. This paper was one said to have been addressed by the President of the United States to his confidential advisers. Mr. F. said he could not see why the honorable gentleman from Kentucky should entertain any particular desire to get at this paper. What official use could he make of it, when he had got it? Why depart from usage by calling for such a paper as this, unless it was intended to make some official use of it? Mr. Mr. POINDEXTER said that he considered the paper F. said he could imagine that one branch of the Legis- referred to in this resolution as one intimately connected lature might, under certain circumstances, have a right to with the removal of the public deposites from the Bank of call for it, and, if it were refused when called for, to ob- the United States. If it was merely a correspondence betain it by the use of means within its power. But this was tween the President and heads of departments, or one of not that branch of the Legislature. If the paper in question them, he (Mr. P.) would be one of the last to disturb the was to be made the ground of a criminal charge against President of the United States, by calling for it. But, he the President of the United States, it must come from said, he regarded it as a public document, and a document, another body, and must be a part of the evidence on which too, of great importance. He regarded it as being in the the President of the United States is to be brought to the bar of this body, under a charge of high crime or misdemeanor. The honorable Senator had suggested that the paper referred to might be of vast use in ascertaining by whom the deposites had been removed. As to that, Mr. F. said, there was no question that the deposites have been removed; whether properly or not, would, he presumed, become a subject of inquiry. He presumed, also, that, as to that act, the Senate had already sufficient information to enable the gentleman from Kentucky to form his judgment upon it. Mr. F. concluded by saying he could perceive no use that the Senate had for this paper; the call for it was of a nature entirely unusual; and he should therefore resist it, and require the yeas and nays upon the question of agreeing to it. nature of instructions from the President of the United States to the head of one of the departments, with respect to the manner of the execution of a duty confided to that department by law. The doctrine of the Senators from Missouri and Georgia amounted to this: that, if the Presi dent of the United States had written letters directly to public functionaries--to a foreign minister, for exampleinstructing him how to act upon subjects of great importance to the country, because they were letters from the President, and had not passed through the Department of State to this minister, it would be incompatible with the rights of the Executive and the duties of the Senate to call for these letters, although they had ever so important a bearing on our foreign relations, even to the extent of involving the nation in a war. Such a doctrine was wholly Mr. BENTON said that he had intended to ask for the untenable. The paper in question, as Mr. P. understood yeas and nays, if the gentleman from Georgia had not it, contained nothing more or less than instructions to one done so, because he considered it due to the Senate that of the heads of departments as to the manner in which be it should appear on the face of the journal who voted for, should exercise certain functions which by law devolved and who against the resolution. As to the information upon him. It is the business of this branch of the Legissought for from the President, it was impossible for the lature, said Mr. P., to enlighten the people, as well as imagination to conceive the uses to which this information they can, as to the manner in which the Government is could be applied. The President had already communi- conducted, and to keep them advised of all encroachments cated his reasons to all America. He might refuse to send upon the rights of Congress or of the people, from any a copy to the Senate, in answer to their call; and such a quarter. The question which now presents itself to Conrefusal would, in his opinion, be proper, in reference to gress is, whether the broad line which the constitution has the effect it might have in cases to arise hereafter. He drawn between the President of the United States and the asked if it was proper to call on the President to say if a control of the national chest shall be effaced, and whether, document, which appeared in a newspaper as his, was genu- by virtue of the power of appointment, the President of ine or not? Was it proper that the Senate should call on the the United States shall not only take command of the army President to communicate to them a paper which he had read and navy, but shall also assume the unlimited control of to the members of his cabinet? Supposing that, instead of a the public purse? Upon his construction of his authority, paper, the President had made a speech to his cabinet. as expounded in practice, and by the document referred What difference could be made between a written paper to, what was to prevent the President of the United States and a speech? He wished to know whether the Senate from drawing ten millions of dollars from the treasury for could have called on him to communicate a copy of his any purpose he pleased? Nothing at all. He had only to speech? If the Senate could do this, could they not go still say to the Secretary of the Treasury, I want ten millions further? and if they could call for this speech delivered to of dollars-draw a warrant for it. The Secretary would his cabinet, could they not also call for any thing which he perhaps reply, there has been no appropriation made by had said to his cabinet, while sitting in his chair, and talk-law for any such expenditure of the public money, and I DEC. 11, 1833.] Presidential Document. [SENATE. cannot, therefore, draw the warrant. But, sir, the Presi- without an express call. If it was a document which dent might say, I will furnish you a paper containing the might come before the Senate in an official form, then the reasons why I require this ten millions of dollars; I take the present motion might have been considered premature. responsibility upon myself; I do not mean to control you But it could not be doubted by any one, that, before the in the performance of what you believe to be your duty as close of the session, and it was impossible to tell how soon, Secretary of the Treasury, but I respectfully require that there would be that before the Senate which would you will sign this warrant for ten millions of dollars. The render it necessary to show how the removal of the deSecretary, perhaps, would rejoin, and say, I have maturely posites had been effected. That time would necessarily considered your reasons, sir, but I cannot, according to arrive, and he was desirous that all information on the law, and consistently with my sense of duty, sign this war-subject should be communicated to the Senate. He was rant. What then, sir? (said Mr. P.) Why, sir, with the therefore influenced by a twofold motive. In the first promptitude of a Napoleon, or of the Grand Turk, or of the place, he was satisfied that this subject must become a Emperor of Russia, the President might say, Mr. Taney, topic of discussion; and, secondly, he could not view this I appoint you Secretary of the Treasury; and, if Mr. Taney document as strictly an official act of the President. It would not comply, he might appoint another, and another, had not been read to the cabinet only, but to the whole until he found one fit to his purpose. By such an abuse people. It appeared to embody instructions. It was a of the power of appointment of the cabinet ministers, the paper which did not essentially differ in its character from President might assume the absolute control of the national a proclamation. There was no existing statute which chest, and at any time dip his hands into it, and take out required of the President to send to the Senate a copy of whatever he would. Now, sir, I want this paper because a proclamation. But, during the last session, a certified it is in the nature of instructions by the President to the copy of a proclamation had been sent to the Senate. And Secretary of the Treasury on this very question concern-although this was not, in the strictest sense, an official ing the public money. So viewing it, I shall give the re-proceeding, it was intended to be a public defence of an solution my support. official act. If the resolution had been simply a call for Mr. FORSYTH said that, in his view, the propriety or that paper, he should feel himself bound to sustain it, as he impropriety of the proposed call depended on the use last year supported a call for the proclamation to which which the Senate were expected to make of this paper. he had alluded. He would therefore suggest that the part For the purpose of informing the public it was not wanted of the resolution which inquired as to the genuineness of by the Senate, for it was already public. We do not call the paper, and which carried on its face an implication, for the paper, said he, in order to have it before us; for should be stricken out, and that the genuineness of the it is already before the world. Why do we want to have paper should be taken as admitted, and that the propoit officially before us? What official use can we make of sition should be merely a call for the paper. With the it? I see none, sir. The only official use that can be consent, therefore, of the Senator from Kentucky, (and made of it is one that the Senate cannot make; that is, as certainly not without it,) he would move to amend the evidence of the criminality of the President of the United resolution, by striking out all after the word "Resolved," States, to be preferred by the other branch of the Legis-and inserting as follows: lature at the bar of this body. Is such use as this of the "That the President be requested to send to the Senate paper anticipated? And is this not the only course that a copy of the paper which has been published, and which can be pursued towards the President in case of the alle-purports to have been read by him to the heads of the gation of his having violated either the laws or constitution executive departments, dated the 18th day of September in connexion with that paper? If, under such circum- last, relating to the removal of the deposites of the public stances, we were to call for this paper, it would only show money from the Bank of the United States and its offices." that we were desirous to prompt the other branch of the Mr. CLAY said he believed there was no instance of an Legislature to act in the case. The suggestion of the gen- official paper emanating from the President having been tleman concerning letters from the President to foreign sent to either House without a call for its production. It ministers, Mr. F. did not consider relevant to this ques- was the parliamentary usage, not only here, but in England tion. But if there were a letter from the President to any and France, and in all countries, to make calls for official officer, containing even treasonable matter, he should deny papers. There was no instance in which Congress had the right of this branch of the Legislature to call for it, used any paper, purporting to be an official one, without that right belonging to another branch of the Government. previously calling on the Executive to lay a copy of such Suppose the President were to write to the Secretary of paper before them. All this was according to parliamentary State, you are to give such and such instructions to a fo-usage. All proclamations, from the celebrated proclamareign minister; Mr. F. asked whether the Senate would tion of neutrality of Washington to this time, had been have a right to call for such a paper? No. No matter brought before Congress by a call from one branch or the what it contained, even were it the direst treason, it could other. Such was the case with all papers emanating only come before the Senate in the shape of a charge from authority. The motion which he had made, thereagainst the President from the other House. No sugges- fore, was in conformity to usage, and was the most tion having been made of any official use of this paper to respectful course to the President himself. A paper be made by the Senate, Mr. F. said he should still oppose might be published surreptitiously, and yet bear on its the call for it. face the stamp of authority. It was most proper to go at once to the highest source and obtain the fact. But Mr. WEBSTER rose and said, that perhaps, after the various admissions which had now been made of the As to the uses which were to be made of this paper, genuineness of the paper, the Senator from Kentucky nothing seemed to run in the head of the gentleman from might be induced to consider his purpose as well answered Georgia but the idea of impeachment. This appeared on that point, as if he retained the original phraseology of to be the only idea he could connect with the call. his resolution. And, in a modified form, he (Mr. W.) did there were many other purposes, and some of them had not feel any objection to its adoption. He looked at the been named by the gentleman from Massachusetts, and subject in a light somewhat different from that in which there might still be others. Might it not be important to it was viewed by the gentleman from Georgia. If this ascertain who had removed the public deposites? whether was a letter to the heads of departments, it could hardly they had been removed by authority of the Secretary of be an official document, and the Senate would have a the Treasury or not? and whether he was a mere auright to call for it. His doubt was, whether it was an tomaton, or acting, as he believed, in the discharge of his official act, which, as such, might come before the Senate duty? He (Mr. C.) had never intended to use the docu VOL. X.-3 SENATE.] Presidential Document. [DEC. 11, 1833. ment in the form of impeachment, nor had he even indi- mean to say that the paper was genuine because it had cated such a design. A great measure had been done, in appeared in a certain newspaper. He knew too much of connexion with the financial condition of the treasury, the newspapers to make such an assertion. But this newsconcerning which the gentleman from Mississippi had paper was published at the seat of Government, and all made some very apt and very excellent observations; and the circumstances combined to give it a character of auit was important to know whether the removal of the thenticity. It was a defence of his course to the cabinet. public funds had been done improperly, in order that, if He differed from the view of this paper taken by the genso, the Senate might consider whether it might not be proper by a joint resolution to restore them. tleman from Massachusetts; for he (Mr. F.) regarded it as a confidential paper. He thought that the Senate had As to the resolution being premature, he could not quite as much right to call for the correspondence with comprehend on what ground such a suggestion could be Mr. Duane as for this paper; and he believed that gentlemade. It was clearly the duty of Congress, as early as men did not make the proper distinction between a possible after their meeting, to look into the state of the confidential and a public act. As to the use which was to treasury, and, in this case, to see if the transfers had be made of the document, gentlemen said that this paper been made, in conformity with the provisions of law, to was the cause of the removal of the public deposites, other banks than that of the United States; to probe the and that these were the reasons which influenced that matter thoroughly, and understand how, why, and on act. They then desire to go behind this paper—and for what authority it had been done. The reasons were only what? Was it to ascertain why the deposites were renow given on the authority of the editor of a newspaper. moved? No. It was to ascertain who had been guilty of He had said before that it was his object to get at the the criminal act of removing them. He had not intended paper; and so far from intending any imputation on the to say that gentlemen were desirous to criminate the Chief Magistrate, it was out of respect to him that he had President. He had merely adopted that view, by way of made the motion, not desiring that, in an extraordinary argument; and he believed that the effect of their proproceeding like this, the facts should be taken on insuffi- ceeding would be to urge on the other House, and to cient authority. His object being merely to obtain the show that, if they were neglectful of their duty, the Senate paper, he would not object to the modification. would act as judges in the case. Mr. WEBSTER disclaimed any intention to impute a premature action to the gentleman from Kentucky. The amendment was then modified according to the suggestion of Mr. WEBSTER. Mr. KING made a few remarks in opposition to the resolution. He did not see how the Senate were to act on this document; thought that they had no right to call for it; and expressed a belief that the President might, Mr. BIBB said he should not have risen in this debate, under the same impression, refuse to communicate it. but for the ground on which the gentleman from Georgia Mr. CLAY replied to the suggestion that the call for had rested his argument. Believing that the Senate the paper, which was the subject of the depending mowould have to act on this subject, he would not be satis- tion, would be an intervention between the President of fied to go into such action without evidence that this paper, the United States and his cabinet. Mr. C. said he cerwhich was called for by the resolution, was genuine. tainly did not so regard it. Rumor said that there were God forbid that he should take any thing put into that certain members of the cabinet who gave their reasons paper, which had polluted this document, and attributed in writing against the removal of the deposites. These it it to the President, as genuine! Although he did believe was not proposed to call for; for Mr. C. agreed that the this paper to be genuine, yet a regard to his public duty Senate have no right to call for confidential correspondwould prevent him from acting on it as genuine, because ence between the President and the heads of departit appeared in that newspaper. He was sure the Senator ments so long as it continues confidential. He had placed from Kentucky did not want the paper for the purpose this call expressly on the ground that the paper in ques which had been intimated by the gentleman from Geor- tion had been published as by authority of the President, gia. The President had in his message alluded to the and that such publication remained uncontradicted. removal of the public deposites, and the Secretary of the Would it not be a strange thing that the whole world Treasury had made a report of his reasons for removing should be put in possession of such a paper by the Execu them. The paper now asked for was a paper in reference tive, and that one of the co ordinate branches of the lawto this public act of the President. It was addressed to making power should have no right to be in possession of the Secretary of the Treasury, as one of the heads of the it? In reply to the argument that the genuineness of the departments, and to the other heads, convened in com- paper referred to was undoubted, because it had not been mon council, touching the public moneys. If the Senate contradicted, Mr. C. said this was but circumstantial evihad not a right of access to such a paper, he knew not dence of its authenticity; strong evidence, indeed, but not what paper they had a right to ask for, until it should be the best within the reach of the Senate. This evigraciously laid before them. He had no desire to found dence he should not presume that the President would any action of the Senate on the assumption that a certain refuse to furnish if called upon. If he did, it would be paper, published in the newspaper which had been named, time enough then to take the next best evidence of the was an authentic one. He should, therefore, vote for the authenticity of the paper. Suppose, sir, said Mr. C., resolution, in order that he might have the means of (in the course of some further observations,) the Presiforming his own opinion upon the document; and as he dent were to give an order to the Secretary of the Treahad no desire to show any disrespect to the Chief Magis-sury to issue a warrant for money for purposes not retrate, he preferred the resolution in its modified form. quired by law; and suppose the Secretary to issue the Mr. CALHOUN said he should vote for the resolution, warrant, and place the order on his files. Or suppose, although he was far from feeling any disrespect for the instead of taking money from the treasury in detail, the President. He considered the official communication of President were, by a sweeping act of his, so to exercise this paper as due to the dignity of the Senate, and to the his powers as to transfer the whole of the public moneys Chief Magistrate himself. And he submitted it to the from the place where the law required them to be kept; good sense of gentlemen, if it would be treating the President with proper respect to predicate any action of the Senate, in reference to so important a subject, on newspaper authority. Mr. FORSYTH rose to correct an error into which gentlemen had fallen as to what he had said. He did not should we not have a right, when a paper is published as an appeal to the people justifying such a measure, to ask for a copy of that document? This right, on the part of the Senate, could not surely be questioned. Mr. KANE gave briefly the reasons which would influence him to oppose the resolution. It was stated as Dec. 12, 1833.] Presidential Document. [SENATE. one of the objects that it was to discover who had re- people of the United States. It had been published to moved the deposites. If that was the object, the question had been already answered by the President and Secretary of the Treasury. But if the object was to show that the President had made a full statement, then the subject ought to be agitated in the other House, and not here, in the shape of a criminal charge. The question was then taken on agreeing to the resolution, and decided as follows: YEAS.-Messrs. Bell, Bibb, Calhoun, Chambers, Clay, Ewing, Frelinghuysen, Hendricks, Kent, Knight, Mangum, Naudain, Poindexter, Prentiss, Preston, Robbins, Silsbee, Smith, Southard, Sprague, Swift, Tomlinson, Webster-23. NAYS.-Messrs. Benton, Brown, Forsyth, Grundy, Hill, Kane, King, Moore, Morris, Rives, Robinson, Shepley, Tallmadge, Tipton, Tyler, White, Wilkins, Wright -18. So the resolution was agreed to. THURSDAY, DECEMBER 12. The following message was received from the President of the United States: WASHINGTON, December 12, 1833. To the Senate of the United States: I have attentively considered the resolution of the Senate, of the 11th instant, requesting the President of the United States to communicate to the Senate "a copy of the paper which has been published, and which purports to have been read by him to the heads of the executive departments, dated the 18th day of September last, relating to the removal of the deposites of the public money from the Bank of the United States and its offices." make an impression, and it had made a deep impression on their minds. But still it had been published on authority alleged by the editor of a newspaper to be derived from the President. Whether the paper was, in fact, genuine, or, if genuine, whether it was promulgated with the President's sanction, were questions respecting which we had no evidence, but that which the assertion of the editor of the paper itself, and concurring circumstances, afforded. In this situation it was, by (Mr. C.) himself, and he supposed by those who voted with him in supporting the call, deemed due and respectful to the President, due to the Senate, and due to the whole country, to appeal to the highest source of information in relation to this subject, and to request an authentic and official copy of the paper itself. This call was in conformity with established usage, coeval, he (Mr. C.) believed, with the Government. Whenever either branch of Congress desires a public paper in the possession of, or proceeding from, the Executive, it has called for it. Innumerable instances of such calls are to be found in the journals of the two Houses. In this case the President refuses to comply with the call; and, undertaking to judge of the rights of the Senate, and of the rights of the Executive, pronounces that the call is not one which the Senate can constitution ally make, or with which it is his duty to comply. Whatever sincerity and strength may exist in the opinion of the President, they cannot be greater than those which are entertained by him, (Mr. C.,) and he has no doubt by the majority of the Senate, that they have a right to an official copy of the paper. He had expressly disclaimed all right of intervention between the President and his confidential advisers. Every such purpose was, and is, distinctly disavowed. If the document had remained confidential, it would not and could not have been called for. It is because it has ceased to be confidential, and has been made public by the authority of the President himself; because he has broken the seal of confidence, and published to the world a highly important state paper, affecting the custody and safety of the treasury of the people of the United States, and the immediate if not the sole cause of the most important act ever performed by the Executive of the United States, that the call has been made. And is it come to this, that the whole world, including the people Feeling my responsibility to the American people, I am of the United States, may be put in possession of such a willing, upon all occasions, to explain to them the grounds paper, and that an official copy of it shall be denied to a of my conduct; and I am willing, upon all proper occa- co-ordinate branch of the Government? sions, to give to either branch of the Legislature any in- But, Mr. C. said, it was not necessary, nor was it his formation in my possession that can be useful in the exe-purpose, to proceed any further in this matter. He decution of the appropriate duties confided to them. The Executive is a co-ordinate and independent branch of the Government equally with the Senate; and I have yet to learn under what constitutional authority that branch of the Legislature has a right to require of me an account of any communication, either verbally or in writing, made to the heads of departments acting as a cabinet council. As well might I be required to detail to the Senate the free and private conversation I have held with those officers on any subjects relating to their duties and my own. Knowing the constitutional rights of the Senate, I shall be the last man, under any circumstances, to interfere with them. Knowing those of the Executive, I shall, at all times, endeavor to maintain them, agreeably to the provisions of the constitution, and the solemn oath I have taken to support and defend it. I am constrained, therefore, by a proper sense of my pwn self-respect, and of the rights secured by the constitution to the executive branch of the Government, to decline a compliance with your request. ANDREW JACKSON. sired the highest and most authentic evidence of the paper in question. It has been applied for, and is refused. And now, by all the dictates of common sense, and according to all the rules of evidence respected here or elsewhere, he was at liberty to use the best evidence in his power; and he should hereafter use, on all fit occasions, a copy of the document referred to, as published in the current newspapers of the day. Mr. GRUNDY said that he had always himself believed the motion calling for this paper unnecessary, and that no benefit could result from it. It was unnecessary, because evidence of a fact was only required when the fact itself was disputed. There was no dispute in this case. Friends and enemies had considered this paper as an authentic one. Why, then, was it necessary to call on the President for evidence that it was so? The message having been read, Mr. CLAY rose and said, that the call, to which this message was a response, had been made upon the President after full deliberation. The right to make it was founded upon the presumed act of the President. It was Every body on his side of the House admitted the pafounded upon the fact of the promulgation of the state per to be genuine, and every body on the other side bepaper emanating from the President relating to the depo-lieved it to be so; no benefit, therefore, was to be exsites of the public money of the people of the United pected from the call. He had also another objection to States, with the President's assent and direction. That the call, and that objection was now recognised by the paper had been published to the world, with the sanction Chief Magistrate himself. That was, that the Senate had of the President. It was now in the full possession of the not, in his opinion, a right to make a call for what had |