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have substantial and thoroughly efficient HOUSE OF COMMONS, steering gear?

SIR CHARLES ADDERLEY: Sir, Tuesday, 27th July, 1875.

the Government have no intention of

introducing a Bill drafted according to MINUTES.] SELECT COMMITTEE Report the terms of the Question put to me by Hampstead Fever and Small Pox Hospital

the hon. Gentleman. [No. 363). PUBLIC Bills-Resolutions (July 26] reported—

Ordered-First Reading-East India Home PARLIAMENT ARRANGEMENT OF Government (Appointments) * (272]; Sheriffs

PUBLIC BUSINESS-MERCHANT SHIP. Substitute (Scotland) * (273). Committee - Agricultural Holdings (England)

PING ACTS AMENDMENT (No. 2) BILL. (re-comm.) [222] — R.P.

Report-Local Government Board's Provisional
Orders Confirmation (Abingdon, Barnsley,

MR. DILLWYN asked the First Lord &c.) * (241-271].

of the Treasury, If he will give preceConsidered as amended Traffic Regulation dence over the Government Orders of

(Dublin) * (246); Legal Practitioners * [46]. Third Reading-Elementary Education Provi- the Day to the Merchant Shipping Acts sional Order Confimation (London) * [251]; | Amendment (No. 2) Bill, which was inLocal Government Board's Provisional orders troduced by the honourable Member for Confirmation (Abingdon, &c.) * (253); Local Derby, and which stands for Second Government Board's Provisional Orders Con. firmation (Aberdare, &c.) * [254), and passed. Reading on Thursday next ? Withdrawn--Church Patronage* (207); Inter

MR. DISRAELI: Sir, I will answer ments in Churchyards * [125];' United Pa- frankly and, I hope, fairly, the inquiry rishes (Scotland) * (201).

of the hon. Gentleman. Her Majesty's

Government are not prepared to give The House met at Two of the clock. precedence to the Bill of the hon. Mem

ber for Derby on Thursday next, and for

two reasons. In the first place, they MERCHANT SHIPPING ACTS-SCREW

could not support that Bill, because, howSTEAMERS CARRYING GRAIN.

ever excellent its motives, it is their QUESTION.

opinion that the tendency of that meaMR. WILSON asked the President of sure, if it were carried, would be to the Board of Trade, Whether, in antici- aggravate the evils it affects to remedy; pation of the extra demand for screw and, secondly, because the Bill would steamers for carrying grain during the lead, from its very character and the imcoming winter, in consequence of the portant principles which it involves, to bad harvest prospect in this country, the à protracted discussion, which would Government would bring in a short Bill require time, the want of which this Session for rendering it necessary has obliged Her Majesty's Ministers for all steamers constructed with a double to relinquish for the present the Bill bottom for water ballast to have their they themselves brought forward this stability tested, and a certificate given year. What, in their opinion, is reallowing them, if found safe, to carry quired at this moment is a temporary grain or seed cargoes; also that no measure—a short and temporary measteamer or sailing ships be allowed to sure- -which will give more rapid and carry grain or seed without proper and direct action to the Government in the efficient protection and precautions be way of stopping unseaworthy ships, and provided by compartments and shifting a measure having that effect will almost boards, and when necessary a portion immediately be introduced by the Presiof the grain or seed be carried in bags; dent of the Board of Trade. When I also that owners of steamers and sailing say a temporary measure, I mean a meaships be required to fill up and return to sure limited in its operation to one year the Board of Trade a form stating the first, because the measure may involve maximum depth to which they propose powers which the House may not choose to load their vessels; and, also that the to grant to a Ministry for a permanent attention of the Board of Trade sur-measure; and, secondly, because a temveyors be specially directed to seeing porary measure, measure for one that steamers' engine and boiler and year will be a material guarantee for bunker space openings are efficiently the introduction, at the earliest possiprotected from the sea, and that they ble opportunity next Session, of a per


manent measure on the subject. Now, Session, there is very little doubt they with regard to the measure of the hon. will-Tuesdays and Wednesdays for the Member for Derby, I can answer for the remainder of the Session ? Government—that is to say, if I have MR. DISRAELI: Really I have not then the general conduct of affairs in had that presumption so far to count this House-he shall have every fair upon the indulgence of the House as to opportunity of bringing his views before regulate the Business of the House in the House and the country. I will take advance. If the permission for which care that the two measures-that of the we have asked is granted, we propose Government and that of the hon. Mem- to proceed to-morrow with the measure ber for Derby-shall be introduced which has already much occupied us, simultaneously; that their true prin- and will again occupy us to-day—the ciples shall at the same time be brought Agricultural Holdings (England) Bill. under the consideration of the House; If that measure is concluded in Comand I doubt not that with the adequate mittee to-night we shall make an artime and thought which the House will rangement which I hope, on the whole, then enjoy and be able to afford we shall may be satisfactory; but in our present come to conclusions advantageous to the uncertain state I cannot say anything public welfare.

definite. MR. SULLIVAN said, that he might MR. GOLDSMID inquired when the be excused if he should ask the Prime Government would propose the Motion Minister or the President of the Board that for the remainder of the Session of Trade if he could promise that the Tuesdays and Wednesdays should be at Bill which was to be brought in to their disposal ? Would it be done at morrow would be introduced at an hour | 9 o'clock to-night, or at 2 or 3 o'clock which would afford time for an adequate to-morrow morning ? [Cries of Now !”] statement on the subject ? He put the MR. SPEAKER : With the general Question because it would materially permission of the House a Motion of affect the course which would be taken this kind, relating to the Business of the on Thursday.

House, can be made now; and if it is MR. DISRAELI: Sir, if we can get the pleasure of the House that the Mothe control of the time to-morrow, of tion should be put at once, I will at course I will make arrangements with a once put it. view to meet the wishes of the hon. MR. W. H. SMITH then moved that Gentleman; but any arrangement I can Government Orders of the Day shall make will of course depend on the in- have precedence on Tuesdays and Weddulgence of the House. We shall do nesdays for the remainder of the Sesour utmost to bring forward the Bill at sion. a time when there can be a fair expression of opinion; but I must appeal to

Motion made, and Question proposed, the indulgence of the House for that “ That Government Orders of the Day shall

have precedence on Tuesdays and Wednesdays purpose. MR. J. G. TALBOT: Following up liam Henry Smith.)

for the remainder of the Session.”—(Mr. Wilthe Question of the hon. Member, I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman when MR. SULLIVAN said, some of his he proposes to make the Motion for Colleagues attended on the previous taking Tuesdays and Wednesdays? evening to make a strong representation

MR. DISRAELI: There is a Motion against taking away that day week on on the Paper for this evening to that account of a Notice of Motion given by effect.

his hon. and learned Friend the Member THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON : for Limerick (Mr. Butt) for that day. I have no right to ask the Question I They asked that Tuesday next should am about to do, and I will not press it be excepted from the Motion. The if the right hon. Gentleman says that Under Secretary for India informed him he is unable to answer me; but it will on Monday that the Government did be very convenient if he informs the not intend to take that Tuesday in view House what business he intends to of his hon. and learned Friend's Motion. proceed with to-morrow in case the As regarded his own Motion in reference House place at his disposal—as I think, to the Guikwar of Baroda, he comconsidering the advanced period of the plained strongly that he was only in. formed of the alteration of the inten- | quite prepared to give up his position to tions of the Government on the preceding the right hon. Gentleman for the purevening. Several hon. Members had pose of facilitating the introduction of left town under the impression that the the Government Merchant Shipping Bill, debate on India, which had been fixed in the hope that he would be able to for that day, could not possibly come on. bring forward his Bill early next SesHe asked the Government not to take sion. that day week from his hon. and learned MR. PARNELL said, the hon. MemFriend the Member for Limerick, who ber for Louth was much indebted to the had a very strong question to raise on Prime Minister for the courteous manner that day as to the conduct by the Go- in which he had spoken of him; but the vernment of Irish Business throughout complaint of his hon. Friend was not the the Session. He made no further com- way in which he himself had been plaint about his own question.

treated, but that the Irish Members MR. DISRAELI: I must ask the should be deprived of Tuesday next for permission of the House, as I have the discussion of an important question already spoken, to make an explanation affecting the interests of Ireland. There in answer to the hon. Member for Louth. were many Irish Members who believed If the hon. Member thinks himself per- that the House of Commons could never sonally aggrieved, I will give his feelings effectually legislate for Ireland, and the every consideration; but I was under hon. and learned Member for Limerick the impression that, considering the had put a Motion on the Paper directly state of the Public Business, he did not raising that question. It was now prointend to bring forward his Motion. If posed, at a time when there were very there has been any misapprehension on few Irish Members present, that another that subject I shall do everything pos- course be taken, which would prevent sible to recognize his claim. But with that Motion from being brought forward. regard to his other remarks, in which The Notice of the Government was for he referred to the Motion of the hon. the Evening Sitting, and several Irish and learned Member for Limerick, and Members were prepared to speak upon in which he attempted to extract a pro- it. They were not, however, present mise from the Government, I think I now, and were unprepared for this can assure him that, with the well-known change in the Government arrangements. opportunities of the hon. and learned He would appeal to the Government to Member for Limerick, and the openings allow the matter to stand over until which the various stages of the Appro- those Irish Members could be present priation Grant will afford him, that hon. who were able and willing to speak on and learned Member will have no diffi- the subject. If not, then let the Irish culty about his Motion. I acknowledge Members have Tuesday next. the general courtesy of the hon. Mem- MR. DILLWYN thought, as the conber for Louth, and if there has been versation had disclosed differences of any misapprehension about his Motion I opinion among the Members present, the shåll certainly make an arrangement. question had better be deferred until it

MR. BOORD said, he hoped the Mo- was reached in ordinary course, in justice tion would not be pressed in the absence to many Members who were now abof the hon. Member for North Warwick- sent. shire (Mr. Newdegate), whose Bill with

MR. NEWDEGATE said, so many reference to Monastic and Conventual questions had been put to him with reInstitutions stood first for Wednesday ference to the Motion standing in his week on the Orders of the Day. In name in relation to Monastic and Confact, he did not think it would be quite ventual Institutions, that he felt the fair to do so in his absence.

question of the Order of Business ought MR. WILSON said, that his Bill for not to be decided, except at the time apthe closing of public houses on Sundays pointed in the Notice Paper. He, therein England was the First Order for to fore, moved the adjournment of the demorrow. It dealt with a subject of bate. great interest to the country; but at this advanced period of the Session, and Motion made, and Question proposed, having regard to the quantity of Busi- "That the Debate be now adjourned, ness still before the House, he would be (Mr. Newdegate.)

Mr. Sullivan

THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON : | the Bill to-morrow and to postpone the I believe I am principally responsible discussion until the second reading, or, for the proposition which has been made if not, that the question should come on by the Secretary to the Treasury. It had at once, when a discussion on the quesoccurred to me, after the answer which tion can be raised. had been given, that it would be incon- MR. DISRAELI : It is always my venient that the proposition should be disinclination to bring forward a Motion made perhaps at half-past 2 o'clock in of this kind except in concurrence with the morning. I therefore suggested, as the general feeling of the House. It was & preferable course, that the Motion my impression that the Motion would should be made now. It is one to which come on to-day; but I should have been I cannot conceive there can be any se- glad to have the opinion of the House rious opposition. It is a usual and almost when it would be most convenient to invariable course that at this period the take the discussion on the second readwhole time of the House should be placed ing. If the boon I ask be granted, we at the disposal of the Government; and will go into Supply to-morrow, and at a certainly the state of Public Business at certain reasonable time report Progress, present is not such as to induce the in order that my right hon. Friend the House to depart from the usual practice. President of the Board of Trade may inI think, however, the House has some troduce his measure at a proper time. I reason to complain of the mode in which think myself it would be more convenient the question has been brought forward if the discussion were to be taken on the by the Government. If the Motion had second reading; but, of course, I only been put down for this morning, hon. mention that for the convenience of the Members would have known what to ex- House. In that event we should conpect, and it would undoubtedly have tinue Supply for a longer time than been the most convenient course. We usual. But I think it would be more appear to have a choice of evils—either useful and convenient to allow hon. Gento take it now without Notice, or another tlemen full opportunity of considering evening when few Members will be pre- the Bill, and the second reading must sent. If objection is entertained to the come on early in consequence of the adMotion being made now, and if it is felt vanced period of the Session. In making to be preferable that it should be ad- these observations, I always assume that journed, I shall offer no opposition to we conclude the Agricultural Holdings that course: I had hoped, however, that (England) Bill to-night. If not, we will on making it the Government would be continue the discussion to-morrow. I am able to have stated what their intentions in the hands of the House; but I was were with regard to the use of the time under the impression that it was the feelthey ask for. I still think it would be ing of a large majority of the House that extremely convenient that we should the Motion with respect to Tuesdays and know what the Business to-morrow will Wednesdays should be taken to-night. be in the event of the Committee on the MR. OSBORNE MORGAN said, that Agricultural Holdings (England) Bill if the Sunday Closing Bill came to be being concluded this evening. If it is discussed to-morrow it would occupy the intended that the Bill to be introduced entire day. The hon. Member for Hull by the President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Wilson) had only consented to is to be brought in early to-morrow and withdraw for the present the second the discussion to be taken on the intro- reading in order to facilitate progress duction of the Bill, it is important, and with the measures of the Government ; indeed essential, that it should be known, but he by no means understood him to and that the statement of the fact should express any willingness to retire the Bill not be postponed until late to-night. in favour of any private Member. Many hon. Members are absent, and MR. GOLDSMID said, he thought it some who would wish to take part in the would be most convenient to settle the discussion are not in London and would question now, and to decide what was not be able to return if the announce- going to be done on Wednesday. The ment were not made until to-night. It Votes to be taken in Supply were of great therefore seems to me it is of the greatest interest, and were in four different importance that we should know whe- classes, which would attrad

as it were, ther it is intended formally to introduce four different sets of Members, VOL. CCXXVI. [THIRD SERIES.]


MR. E. JENKINS said, that the

proceedings of that day would induce people CRIMINAL LAW-SENTENCE ON JOHN outside to think that Government was

O'BRIEN.-QUESTION. still pursuing that fatal policy which had brought it into disgrace with the country. Power) asked the Secretary of State

MR. SULLIVAN (for Mr. O'CONNOR What hon. Members on that side of the House particularly desired to ascertain for the Home Department, Whether it was, whether the Bill relating to the John O'Brien, now confined at Chatham

is a fact that the military prisoner, Merchant Shipping, to be introduced on Wednesday, was to be brought on at such Prison, was first sentenced to penal a time as to enable hon. Members to dis

servitude for ten years, but recalled by cuss it ? He asked the right hon. Gen- the judge immediately after he left the tleman not to give the Agricultural offence of asking for “ three cheers for

dock and, on account of the alleged Holdings (England) Bill precedence over the Irish Republic,” then sentenced to a Bill which involved the lives of many penal servitude for life? persons. MR. MUNTZ thought the proposal of

MR. ASSHETON CROSS, in reply, the Government a reasonable one. The

said, he had made inquiry about this question was, whether the public wel- matter, and nothing was known about fare was to be sacrificed to the interests any civil trial. It appeared, from the

record of the military proceedings on of private Members ?

Mr. W. H. SMITH said, that in the January 10, 1867, that the prisoner event of the House going into Supply on Wednesday they would proceed with the tenced to penal servitude for life, and postponed Civil Service Estimates, Class

there was no record of his having been

first sentenced for only 10 years. Had III., and the remaining Estimates in Class

such been the case, he was informed that IV., and then report Progress, in order to enable the President of the Board of a record would have appeared on the Trade to introduce his Bill relating to un

original proceedings. seaworthy ships. MR. SHAW LEFEVRE asked when

CRIMINAL LAW-JANE HANLON. the Navy Estimates would be taken? MR. MACDONALD asked the Prime

QUESTION. Minister to fix an hour for the introduc- MR. FRENCH asked the Chief Setion of the Merchant Shipping Bill. cretary for Ireland, Whether he has any should be brought forward when there objection to state to the House_the would be ample opportunity to discuss reasons for the dismissal of Jane Hanboth its principle and its provisions. lon, late nurse in the Criminal Lunatic Four o'clock ought to be the latest hour Asylum, Dundrum; and, whether he for its introduction.

has any objection to lay upon the Table THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- of the House a copy of the Report of the QUER deprecated any further waste of Inspector of Lunatic Asylums to the the public time in pursuing this discus. Lord Lieutenant relative to the escape of sion. He hoped they would now come Margaret Aberton from that Asylum ? to a decision on the Motion with respect SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH, in to allowing Government Orders of the reply, said, that owing to the escape of Day for the remainder of the Session Margaret Aberton from the asylum to have precedence on Tuesdays and the matter was inquired into by the Wednesdays. He hoped the Agricul- Inspector of Lunatic Asylums, who retural Holdings (England) Bill would be ported that the nurse, Jane Hanlon, had got through that day. If that were done, been guilty of great negligence and imthen they could go on to-morrow with proper conduct in the discharge of the Supply, and continue until about half-duties of the office. Accordingly, he repast 4 o'clock, when his right hon. Friend commended her dismissal, which was the President of the Board of Trade carried into effect. The Inspector's Recould introduce his Bill.

port could not be laid on the Table, Question put, and negatived.

because such documents were always Original Question put.

considered confidential, The House divided : -Ayes 173; Noes 19: Majority 154.


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