ous fault in the cotton-mill is discovered, and that is, the true covering of the top-roll, either of the drawing-frame, railwayhead, or spinning-frame. I submit, as a theorist, knowing nothing practically about it, whether these are not the conditions. Every inch of carding which you use, more than which is necessary to straighten the fibre, does some harm to each particular fibre of the cotton that you use: it may be little, and it may be much; but to some extent it impairs the quality of that fibre. You then draw the strand through certain machines before you begin to gain the twist. In order to draw in those machines in which there is no twist that helps hold fibre to fibre, you must put a heavy weight upon your top-roll, in order that you may draw the selvedge. In doing that, you impair the quality of the centre. You crush part in order to draw the whole; and that was admitted in previous discussions, that you could draw cotton through a drawing-frame so many times that the fibres would fall apart, and you could no longer spin it. I think that was admitted. I think it has been done. When you begin to draw them, and have gained a twist, you may lighten up your weight because you have no selvedge, and the twist helps hold the strands together.

You may,

therefore, lighten the weight on the top-roll, and still gain extension of your strand. I had the satisfaction, after that discussion, of having one practical spinner, who is not here today, a thoroughly skilful man, come to me at the next meeting, and state, as the result of that discussion, he had thrown. out one-half of his drawing, and was making a great deal stronger yarn. Now, do you not work (I will put it in the form of an inquiry, so as not to appear to know any thing), do you not work under serious difficulties, owing to the imperfection of your top-roll? It is not the rib where your leather cot is joined that makes it necessary for you to put twice the weight upon your top-roll that is needed. Whenever you come to that rib, your top-roll is retarded in very slight degree; and, in order to overcome that retardation of the rotation of the toproll, caused as it is by friction, you have to put on a heavy weight instead of a light one. We thought we had discovered. a substitute for leather in the form of chrome-gelatine rolls, which worked in the cold weather. We did run spinningframes at the Indian Orchard Mills at six pounds on the front roll, where we had ordinarily worked eighteen; and we made

eight per cent stronger yarn continuously by that change, and as even as it had been made before. That was the two hundred and forty-first patent on a substitute for leather; and it was as worthless as all the rest, because it would not work in dog-days. When the original leather top is displaced by an elastic homogeneous substance without a rib, will you not then be in a condition, as you are not now, to determine whether more carding is best, or whether you had better gain your extension on your twisted strand, rather than use a drawing-frame, delivering a flat or untwisted strand? The result of all my questioning,. without any practical experience or knowledge, was to bring the conviction to my mind that a greater elimination of the drawing would be an improvement, that you would gain your doubling on the card and on the rovings, reducing the drawing to the lowest possible point, in order to avoid that excessive weight on the top-roll. I simply submit these questions; for, of course, I have no practical knowledge on the subject. Theoretically, it seems to me that the cotton-fibre must be more injured by drawing the fibres apart, under the crushing effect of heavy weights on the top-roll, than by any other treatment. Hence, the strongest yarn will be had from small strands worked under very light weights, the evenness of the strand being secured by the greatest number of doublings. Heavy grists and heavy weights must take all the life out of the cotton.

Mr. E. M. SHAW. I have had no practical experience in this matter of no drawing, but I have given a good deal of attention to it. I have watched with a good deal of interest the mill Mr. Brown speaks of. I have seen some of his work running with 96 picks of warp and 100 picks of filling made by the process he speaks of. It is something different on those 56-60's. I have been through the mill many times, and I do not know a mill that runs prettier from carding-room to weav ing-room than this. Whether his success is to be attributed to no drawing, or double or single drawing, I do not know. Mr. Greene is here from Brunswick, Me., who has remodelled part of his mill, and now runs only one head of drawing; and I would like to have the result of his experience. In conversation with me yesterday, he made some statements which I think are important; and I would like to have him state to us how he works in his mill.

Mr. GREENE. We started our new card-room about four weeks since, with double carding and seven cards to a railwayhead, with the sliver about eighty grains to the yard at the railway-head and one process of drawing, which we think makes stronger yarn than to have ten or twelve cards to a railway-head and have two processes of drawing, with sliver from railway-head 100 to 115 grains per yard.

Mr. DRAPER. I rise to say that the mill which I spoke of up at Kinderhook is owned by Mr. Handy, who is the agent of the Manville Mills, where they spin yarn up to 80's; and quite a large portion of his work up to 80 is running without any drawing at all, and running somewhat on the same principle of the mill I mentioned. It was his experience on the Manville Mill, after experimenting on this matter, that led him to reject the drawing, and then double the roving in all cases; drawing excessively at the spinning-frame, so as to keep up the size of the roving. The great advantage to come from this impending revolution I spoke of, is in the fact that you are going to save a very large expense in roving machinery. If you can use roving twice as coarse, it will cost you very much less to make it; because on coarse roving you use machines that will do a great deal more work, and make larger bobbins, and all that sort of thing. In a comparatively small yarn-mill, with a capital of one hundred and seventy-five thousand or two hundred thousand dollars, they told me that they are going to make fine yarn, and for the fine process it would cost twenty-two thousand dollars for roving-frames for the last operation, to start with. Now, if it should be found that they can take that roving as coarse as it is before it comes to this last process, and by this excessive draught can draw it down, it is going to make an immense saving. In regard to the matter of weaving, I assume that the yarn I speak of can be made good yarn for weaving on 96 square, or 96 to 100, as the case may be, by adding to the amount of twist. For this slack weaving, they twist the yarn very little it requires but little of it. By twisting the yarn more, I have no doubt that it would break, not being so strong; and I understand that is the process that is necessary for thick cloth, in a measure. When you have got yarn strong, and it is slack twisted, twist it more, and it will stand the strain of this close weaving. That is my opinion about it. I may be mistaken, but I think that will be found to be the result. I was

talking with a brother of our President a short time ago: and he told me, that with different kinds of cotton he had found that, in order to weave excessively close goods, he had to add to the twist materially, even to make his yarn break at a less number of pounds than it did before he put in the additional twist; and he found it to be necessary in order to make it stand the weaving. I think that is what we have got to do with the yarn I spoke of.

Mr. C. I. BARKER. Mr. Draper says, by this new process of carding a great saving is to be made in the matter of rovingframes. Now, as I understand the matter, they double on the spinning-frame hence, with fourteen or sixteen inch draught, I fail to see how he can make a saving on the roving-frame, foi that roving could not be any heavier on the new process than on the old process. For instance, if they make four-hank roving and draw eight inches, or put up two, and draw sixteen, I do not see how he is going to make any saving on the roving-frame. I would like to hear that explained.

Mr. DRAPER. What I refer to is, to have the advantage of double roving at the spinning-frame without reducing it. That is to say, he took his frames as they were, at nine draught, we will say, and put them up to eighteen; and he got the advantage of this double roving at the spinning, and that produces the result. When I can see people take ordinary single roving, short cotton, and run their frames successfully at a hundred and sixteen turns on the front roll, as I saw this running, I may think there is nothing remarkable about it; but I never saw it done anywhere else. The draught is not only sixteen, but it is carried up to twenty-six. Now take single roving, and you draw it thirteen. You do not think of drawing it more than seven. Now, if you draw it thirteen, could you not prepare the roving a good deal cheaper than if you drew it seven?

Mr. BARKER. If I run it double on the spinning-frame, I could not.

Mr. DRAPER. But whether you run it double or single, can you not in either case make roving coarse enough to draw it thirteen, and produce a good-size yarn cheaper than you can seven ?

Mr. BARKER. I did not understand it that way. I do not see where you gain in carding-machinery. I cannot see that point. I do not understand that Mr. Draper claims he makes

coarse roving and draws single. It is to make fine roving in the card-room which increases the cost of the cård for the sake of drawing it double in the spinning-frame.

Mr. DRAPER. I think the rest of the members understand it. If they do not, I will try and explain further.

Mr. BARKER. I do not think any one can blame me for not understanding what Mr. Draper says.

The PRESIDENT. Gentlemen, I believe it is generally admitted that the doubling on the spinning-frame is a very valuable doubling, the most important doubling made in the mill, as I understand it; but, in order to do it, you must make a very fine roving: therefore, I do not see how the point can be maintained, that by doubling at the spinning-frame there is any saving made in the roving-frame. On the contrary, I should suppose it would require more than the ordinary process.

Mr. DRAPER. Seeing is believing. Go and look at it. The fact is, they have discovered that they can submit it to so much more draught. If you can draw twenty-six, who ever heard of drawing twenty-six, either single or double? - now, when you find you can see it done, and get good results from it, there is no use in arguing against a fact. When you have the fact, you admit it.

Mr. BARKER. As I understand, there is nothing new, there is no new principle involved in running double roving on spinning-frames. Every one who is familiar with spinning knows this fact, that by running two rovings into one with a medium draught, you will get better yarn. That is nothing new: that has been known for years and years. But the new principle involved in Mr. Draper's is, that we are going to do it cheaper; not only better, but cheaper. Now, I fail to see that point entirely: I think it will cost just as much.

Mr. ATKINSON. Mr. President, to my uninstructed mind it seems the result would be the reverse of what Mr. Draper states, and that you need a less number of spindles rather than a less number of roving-frames.

Mr. DRAPER. You need both.

Mr. ATKINSON. If you take two bobbins, four-hank roving, and put them up to a spinning-frame, and increase your draught enough to compensate for that, and then increase the speed of your spinning-frame, are you not going to make the yarn weaker?